Posts made by kaufschtick

@bugoo:

not to rain on anyones parade, but a standard J1 war dec involves Java being taken with the fleet from Truk, which the UK does not have odds on sinking thanks to one fighter being unable to reach the fight.

Well, there is that problem. As the Japanese, once you’ve seen this move, you can just take Java J1, and that’s the end of that.

But the first time you see it, I like the idea of the Japanese just attacking it with everything they have. Whatever the Japanese suffer, the Allies will suffer equally, if not more.

The Allies already start the game 100 IPCs behind Japan in air units, and a minor IC build by Japan in Vietnam or Hong Kong will make up for the loss in ground units. Japan can also get 2 x more air units in its build phase on J2 in anticipation of the battle losses.

I don’t see how this move can possibly benefit the Allies?

If you’re going to do the air stack, it seems to me like a better idea to try it in Singapore on turn 2. Then you can get in 4 US planes (2 x bmbrs if you want), and you can have the British land forces moved to Shan State to counter attack Singapore should it fall. It’s a bigger, more spectacular battle, and more of a winner take all deal.

Of course, that is unless the Japanese take Singapore on J2, which is the same problem the air stack on Java has, the Japanese have the option of taking it away in the first place.

@bugoo:

the problem with the game is not the J1 DOW, its the india crush which can be done with a turn 1, turn 2, and while i’ve not seen it yet i’m sure its out there, turn 3 dow.  In the india crush, india falls turn 3 giving japan income advantage on the allies as well as TUV advantage, which means game over man.

I’m not super sure of all the mechanics of the J3 India Crush myself, but from what Jim says, I’ll take his word for now that it is broke until I get a chance to break it down.

But it sounds like it would have to just be banned. Disallow the Naval & Air Base build in Kwangsi and be done with it.

I just got back in from Dayton and two solid days of AAP:40. I’m too tired to for more now now, I’ll be back tonight.

But I think the J1 attack is equally as broke in this game. The main point being that the Japanese can build a major IC easily right in the heart of where the action is.

In OOB games that we’ve played, the Allies never overtake the Japanese forces in numbers. A skillful Japanese player can do exactly what the Allies try to do, namely hold down friendly losses and maximize enemy losses.

We continue to see large battles take place where both sides dish out equal amounts of losses to one another. When this happens, the Japanese gain an edge as their replacements make it back to the key areas a turn (and sometimes two) before the US units can make it back. That allows the Japanese forces to concentrate while the US units come straggling in piecemeal.

Two good players will maneuver their forces in AAP:40 like two boxers in the ring. If neither makes a mistake and gives the other an opening, then the best one can hope for is to move in and lock horns, hoping for the dice Godz to smile upon you.  :|

We’re seeing games in which both sides maneuver, unable to gain a clear cut advantage. Eventually one sides moves to strike, and the battles have been winding up mutually destructive. In the race to build back up, the US is coming from Timbucktoo (San Francisco), and the Japanese have the option to rebuild damn near right where the battle took place.

The first turn only allowing the US to have a meager 17 IPCs gives the Japanese too much of a head start. The first big US buy doesn’t get placed until turn two, moves out to Pearl until turn three, and therefore doesn’t get into the action until turn four.

The designers, IMHO, have allowed the Japanese player to get too big a lead from third, and they’ve stolen home.

@jim010:

Actually, the US could put 2 x bombers, a ftr & a DB in Queensland on US1. They could Kamikazie into SZ42 at the top of the Allied second turn, followed by the British and then the ANZACers. That could do some damage.

I will have left sz42 by then.

As for the UK CV, I need to play against it, but with 5 less units in Ind, I don’t need my TTs that I brought down from Japan.  What I have down there already will be enough.  I’ll take DEI (or Sau if available) instead.

Nevermind, it just hit me that the SZ42 fight you’re talking about is on turn one, not turn two.

I’ll have to look at this some more. That SZ42 should only be a Japanese CV, BB & DD if I remember the set up right. British commit their planes…

I don’t think that would help the Allies.

Anyway, I’ll take this up with Tim in about three hours, in Dayton, speaking of which, I’ve gotta run. Time to get ready to hit the road!

I-70 West to Dayton!!!

If there is no counter, then in addition to US immediate 40, that start would have to be banned.

And if there is no counter to that move, then I have another issue with this game!!! :cry:

Jim (or anyone really), if you could, would you mind just generally laying out the turn 2 situation? Tim and I can take a look at it when I get out to Dayton. Also, any other important aspects of this strat, I’d really appreciate it.

Maybe Calvins opening post is enough, I don’t know. I’ll have to check when I get out to Dayton.

@Dylan:

Well if you get Europe 40, the game won’t be broken
:-o shocking I know.

Europe doesn’t change a thing if you want to play Pacific as a stand alone. :?

There were some quotes from Larry in another thread on here, that someone took from the Harris website. They indicated that all along Pacific was intended from the begining to be a stand alone game.

Granted the Global game will be fun (I hope), there was the strong appeal for me that with the two games, there were going to actually be three games to have the option of playing, depending on time and what mood the players were in.

Not to knock the Europe game, but it has no bearing as far as I’m concerned, on the Pacific game.

@kungfujew:

Also, you want more than vague assurances of pairity, give me a detailed script to follow and I’ll give you back what I would do to counter it.

Well?!

Still waiting here.

@jim010:

Plus, buying the AC after having wasted the UK airforce in the sz42 attack means I no longer need much of anything to take Ind now.

“Whatcha talkin’ bout Willis!?!”  :-D

What SZ42 attack?

What’s the deal on this move? The J3 crush deal. What’s the sitrep after J2?

What are the general forces that are holding open the SZs to keep the front door open? SZs 37 & 38, whats generally in them on J2?

@jim010:

As it’s a bid game we are playing, Calvin, maybe having used all $20 in Phi would be the way to go?

In Philadelphia? :?

:wink:

Holy Smokes, McAuthor returns before he ever left! That crazy fool!

@jim010:

I’ll also point out that there is no way to get the ANZAC planes to Ind, as I will be in control of Jav.

You can always get the at start ANZAC ftr from Queensland in to India via Singapore on ANZAC 1 & 2.

If Britian builds a CV on B1, what is the situation for blockers in SZs 38 & 37?

This force (Britis CV, CA & DD) could go south around blockers in SZ38 to hit SZ 37 in an effort to take control of that SZ and pull off the block.

I’m just thinking this problem  through out loud here, so bear with me…or humor me…or, well I don’t know what the right phrase to use here is???Anyway. :-)

If the US brings its bombers to Queensland on US1, and a ftr & DB, they could attack any blockers popping up in SZ41 that may be trying to protect the flank of a British move around SZ38 to set up a blocking position in SZ 37. The US ftr & DB could land on an empty B1 CV if it survives J2. Then the British force would have the choice to move around SZ 38 to attack SZ37, or just attack SZ38 to establish a blocking position.

If the ANZAC DD moves to SZ56 and survives J2, and SZ42 is held open (the US ftr & DB could attack this SZ in an effort to clear it without the need to use the Brit CV), it could be the the blocker for SZ 37, moving last in the turn order.

Failing that, the Allied player could see to it that the Japanese player had several beers, or whatever beverage was appropriate, right before the game. I’m talking, get the Japanese player to drink a lot of fluids.

Then, when the Japanese player starts the game and commences to execute this strategy, hopefully he/she will have to excuse themselve for a moment to use the restroom (all those fluids, see what I was getting at now?).

Then, while the Japanese player is in the restroom, take some off-white tape, and add it from the border of Burma to Shan State down to the southern border line of SZ 38, effectively dividing it in two, and creating another SZ.

Now here’s the tricky part, and you’re going to need to have this ready beforehand. But go to Office Max and get a pack of those little stickers that are all numbers. Place the numbers “64” over the SZ 39 numbers, and then place a “39” in your newly created SZ.

If all goes well, this should put India out of harms way for another turn. After that, you’re on your own. :-D

@calvinhobbesliker:

How to counter this strat?

J1: Japan does usual J1 moves, taking Java instead of Celebes with Carolines fleet
J2: Build AB/NB in Kwangsi and position ships and planes to use them. Use planes to kill infantry in Shan, Burma, Yunnan, Szechwan; take Shan and Malaya and Yunnan
J3: Attack India with Ships in Z36, 37, 38(which were placed to prevent blockers) and planes from Kwangsi, which land in Sham or Yunnan

Hmm.

I’m heading out to Dayton this afternoon for some serious game time (well, not serious, cause we’ll be drinking, but I mean a lot of game time), I’ll have to bring this up and show Tim, see what he thinks of it.

Just in taking my first good look at it here, and it looks pretty bad for the Allies.

@gamerman01:

Another good post, Kauf…

I agree that the effective J1 (achieving all those objectives - I think it was you who put them up) is pretty straight-forward and not real hard to see.  I think Van_Trump just meant that your move does pretty much all the things that need to be done - that’s what he meant by “book move”, I think.  If a textbook was written about this game, it would say to make pretty much all those attacks (definitely Phillipines, Hong Kong, Yunnan, take empty Chinese TT, sink American transport, probably even ANZAC DD and TP…).  I mean, I made all those attacks (except on ANZAC) the very first time I played this game, without reading anything before hand, and I’m sure almost all experienced A&A players would do the same.

Oh yeah, I’m right with you on Van Trumps post, thats how I took it too. Its just that I thought it was interesting that when he said “book move”, and it is, that when you stop and think about it, there are quite a number of little decisions in there that many people will play differently.

Van Trumps right, over all its the “book move”, but its not a locked in stone kinda deal, and I think some folks may read it that way, like some kind of super move.

From some of Van Trumps posts, it almost feels like he’s been playing games with Tim and myself! I think my view of the game is very nearly the same as his though, at least many of his comments and opinions are dead on the same as my own.

And you yourself said that you made many of those same moves right out of the gates, so it’s not like there is some kinda diabolical move going down on J1. And its certainly not the case that I’m trying to brag myself, about the Japanese being so tough, it’s just the way it is.

There have been a couple people that have posted in the threads and all they want to bring to the conversation is “Aw hell, I’ll beat you”, and they have no clue as to what the actual discusion is.

Anyway, this time tomorrow night, I should be 3/4 turns into game 01 of maybe 5/6, or even more. We’re going with the US immediate 40. :-)

@Van_Trump:

Other than minor differences here or there, Kaufschtick has outlined the J1 “Book Move”

I prefer to use the 4th bomber against Yunan instead of the New Britain SS, for example.

Allied response should be aware of the fact that the Japanese TT’s at PI sea zone can move 3 spaces next turn because of captured seabase.

You know, the only thing remotely tricky about the way we do it is the fighter “swap” from the planes hitting the PI.

The rest of the move is straight forward. Where you want the second sub to go, do you attack the ANZAC sub, how do you distribute your air in China, do you leave an inf in Siam, stuff like that…well, there are a lot of little considerations in there that make the opening Japanese move a matter of preference, not a stone cold script.

I think some people see my posts in particular and think, “Oh, this guy thinks he’s a Billy Bad A$$, eh? Well, we’ll see about that! Show me your move and I’ll show you how I’d beat it!”

But it’s not about a particular move. Its the general situation on turn one. The Japanese are in such a strong position that they are able to accomplish several very important goals that will lay the groundwork for a Japanese win. This may not happen until around turn 7-9, or even a little later depending on events.

You still have to play the game, but it gets old having to make perfect move after perfect move for the Allies just to get to the next turn, and if the Japanese player is good, you’ve got long odds of having any chance to win at all.

@calvinhobbesliker:

How does Japan make 42? They start with 26+2 for Phil+3 for Hong+ 3 for Cel+2 for FIC+4 Chinese tt=40+1 saved=41

Stop doing that!  :-D :oops: :-D :-D :-D

You’re right again of course, 41 if Japan takes Hunan. I’m no good at this when I’m sober. :-o

Correction noted…again.

By Calvinhobbesliker…again.  :-D  :-D  :-D

Look, I’ll buy you a 6 pack if you stop finding mistakes! :-D :-D :-D

@Gravy:

Thanks for the help Kaufs.  By the way, I really think the global game will actually leave Japan a little weaker than the allies.  The threat of Russia in Manchuria will make all the difference.  Right now my buddy and I play with a 12 bid for the allies and the games are very close…just enough to balance the game…actually he has beaten mw twice now with the allies bid at 12.

As the allies I came really close to beating him as Japan a number of times, they were tight games that with a few more better roles in a few last battles…I would have won so we decided to just put a slight bid in for the allies.

The key with the allies is taking advantage of consecutive turns in a row with their planes.  Take a DEI Island with the Americans and then sending in the British and ANZAC fighters to defend it…tough to take back for Japan and they lose their NO.  Also, build American bombers every turn and put them in Queensland, they are deadly!!  Anyway, rhanks for clarifying the sub question.

We like immediate 40 because it doesn’t change the OOB set up at all, and is the only change from the OOB game. There are no other changes. The ole’ KISS meathod.

Bids effects can vary widely from game to game, and at some point, a particular bid may be found that imbalances the game yet again. Then you start the process all over again.

Good luck with your meathod, we’re going to stick to immeduiate 40 for now. And yes, hopefully AAG will change the overall situation, but for those wishing to play a purely pacific AA game, the pain goes on…  :wink:

@calvinhobbesliker:

For the bid, do you do 4 infantry in Yunnan?

That would be a huge move, IMHO….

@Gravy:

Can battleships, cruisers and subs attack a stack of enemy subs.  Does a destroyer have to be present to attack just enemy subsd with your ships. 
Also, I’m attacking your lone sub with 2 of my own subs.  Do we all get a “first strike” ability since there are no destroyers involved.
Sub rules get a little confusing at times.  I know you need a destroyer in order for planes to attack them but you don’t need a destroyer for lets say your battleship to attack an enemy sub do you?

Without an attacking DD, the defending subs have the option to submerge before the battle starts.

So yes, the BBs, CAs & SSs can attack, but the defending subs can refuse battle and submerge at their option.

Hope that helps!

@gamerman01:

Formosa = Taiwan

Thanks, correction noted.

@calvinhobbesliker:

The ftr from Formosa must land on Siam. It’s 3 moves to Z37, and there’s no airbase

Nice catch! :-)

Damn, I thought I had the whole move memorized! Not quite! I haven’t even had a beer yet, so I can’t blame it on that! :lol:

Oh well, I’m on vacation as of 4 hours ago, might as well go grab a cold one now! :-P

Formosa is Taiwan, right? Or is Taiwan Hainan? I get those mixed up. I thought the fighter started on Hainan, and thought that was Taiwan, but you’re right, that ftr starts on Formosa, which may wind up being Taiwan after all! :-o :-D

@kungfujew:

Also, you want more than vague assurances of pairity, give me a detailed script to follow and I’ll give you back what I would do to counter it.  You gave a basic 10 point 10 turn summary and we tried it out four times and the allies won three times.

OK, I’ll post the opening Japanese move we’re using:

_J1 buy= 3 x transports & 1 x Arty, bank 1.

JPN BMR FROM SHANTUNG TO SZ 37, LANDS IN KWANGSI
1 JPN BMR FROM JAPAN TO SZ 37, LANDS KWANGSI
1 JPN BMR FROM JAPAN TO SZ 47, LANDS TRUK
JPN BMR FROM MANCHURIA TO SZ 37, LANDS KWANGSI

JPN FTR & DB FROM CV IN SZ 33 MOVES TO THE LAND BATTLE IN THE PI AND LANDS ON 1 CV MOVING TO SZ 35 FROM SZ 6. THE CV FROM SZ33 MOVES TO SZ 44 AND RECOVERS THE FTR & DB FROM THE CV THAT STARTED IN SZ 6 AND MOVED TO SZ 35. THESE TWO CVs EFFECTIVELY “SWAP” PLANES IN THE PROCESS.

JPN DD FROM SZ 33 MOVES TO SZ 47 TO ATTACK THE ANZAC SS THERE ALONG WITH THE BMR FROM JAPAN.

JPN SS IN SZ 6 MOVES TO SZ 26 AND KILLS THE US TRANSPORT THERE

2 X JPN TRANSPORTS IN SZ 6 MOVE TO THE PI AND TAKE 2 X MEN & 2 X ARTY. I LIKE TO TAKE A TANK INSTEAD OF TWO ARTY, BUT I DON’T THINK IT INCREASES THE ODDS ANY, AND I HAVE SWITCHED OVER TO TIMS (BB) MOVE OF TAKING TWO ARTY, AND SAVING THE TANK TO MOVE ON THE TRANSPORTS TO ATTACK SINGAPORE ON J3.

JPN TRANSPORT IN SZ 33 MOVES TO SZ 44WITH THE TROOP ON TRUK & GRABS THE TROOP ON PAULAU AND TAKES CELEBES.

JPN BB IN SZ 33 MOVES TO SZ 44

ALL THE REST OF THE JPN FLEET MOVES TO SZ 35, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE DD IN SZ 19, WHICH MOVES TO SZ 6, AND THE JPN SS IN SZ 19, WHICH SOMETIMES MOVES TO SZ 6, SOMETIMES TO SZ35. FIELDERS CHOICE.

THE JPN FTR & DB FROM THE 2ND CARRIER IN SZ 6 JOIN THE NAVAL BATTLE IN SZ 35.

3 MEN & ARTY FROM KWANGSI MOVE TO ATTACK YUNNAN WITH THE FTR & DB FROM SHANTUNG, WHICH LAND IN KWANGSI

JPN FTR FROM TAIWAN TO SZ 37, LANDS IN KWANGSI SIAM IF IT SURVIVES.

2 INF & ARTY FROM JEHOL MOVE TO CHARHAR

THIS IS ANOTHER AREA OF CHOICE. I USED TO LIKE TO MOVE 1 X INF FROM KAINGSI TO HUNAN, THE OTHER 2 INF & ARTY TO HONG KONG. BB (TIM) LIKES TO MOVE 2 INF FROM KAINGSI TO HUNAN, AND 1 INF & ARTY TO HONG KONG. I’M LIKING TIMS MOVE BETTER AND BETTER, AS IT SETS UP MORE TROOPS TO ATTACK YUNNAN ON J2.

SHANTUNG INF TO ANHWE

KIANGSU INF TO ANHWE

ALL MANCHURI LAND UNITS TO JEHOL (INCLUDING THE AA GUN), MECH INF TO ANHWE.

KOREA INF TO MANCHURIA

SIAM INF TO VIETNAM. BB LIKES TO TAKE JUST 1 INF, I LIKE TAKING THEM BOTH TO HAVE AVAILABLE TO COUNTERATTCK YUNNAN IF NEEDED ON J2.

1 FTR & 1 DB FROM MANCHURIA TO HUNAN, LAND KWANGSI

FTR OKINAWA TO HONG KONG, LAND KWANGSI

2 X FTR & 1 DB  FROM MANCHURIA TO HONG KONG, LAND KWANGSI

2 X FTR & 2 X DB FROM JAPAN TO TRUK

3 X FTR & 2 X DB STAY AT JAPAN

6 X INF & 1 ARMOR REMAIN ON JAPAN, GAINING THE J1 ARTY

THE 3 X TRANSPORTS COME ON AT JAPAN, OBVIOUSLY

JAPAN GOES TO 41~~/42~~ DEPENDING ON WHETHER THEY TAKE HUNAN._

@kungfujew:

Also, you want more than vague assurances of pairity, give me a detailed script to follow and I’ll give you back what I would do to counter it.

Start typing.

And don’t get the idea that I’m at all interested in playing you here. As I said before, I only play amongst friends, and I don’t do the online games at all. If I can’t sit down and drink a beer with you, then I have absolutely no interest at all in playing a game with you.

Beyond this point in the game, it is all speculation as to what the die rolls will be.

For me, I’ve got vacation coming up next week, and my good drinking buddy out in Dayton is off from Monday night to Thursday night, so We’ll be playing the US immediate 40 a bunch more.

I’m with my good friend on the immediate 40 vs the bid right now. He brings up the good point that immediate 40 is only one simple change to the game, and it doesn’t force the game into scripted play.

We’ve only got 8 games in like this so far; but so far, so good. They’ve all been competitive and fun.

Plus, the US player gets to decide what to spend the now added extra 40 IPCs on on the first turn, so In a way, it’s kinda like a 40 IPC bid to the US.

So far, we’ve been using the extra US1 income for a second US1 CV and three transports. The US1 buy is for 57 IPC, which we get 2 x CVs, 3 x Transports, and there is 4 left over for an arty.

That’s really not too much, and is the only change to the game we make. Everything else stays with the OOB rules.

@jim010:

I smoke the good stuff … I can hear colours now!!

Focus Jim, focus, we need you sober in this thread!  :-D :-D

@jim010:

… hmm … did the order of the posts change, or is it me?

I don’t know what you’re talking about…. :lol:

What are you smokin’ over there Jim?  :-D

Somebody cut Jim off, I think he’s had a little too much… :-D :-D :-D :wink:

@gamerman01:

I found a much better discussion on this J1 attack business at Harris’ site, complete with pictures  :-)

http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=2155

There are actually some allied strats and justifications for waiting to attack as J on this thread…

Although the conclusions are still - J1 Jap advantage, J delay Allied advantage, which brings us full circle.  Why in the world would you wait as Japan??  Maybe I’ll try it when I play a newbie or something.

Well, I mean, if that thread just goes full circle, it’s more of the same as we have here.

If the best Japanese move is to attack J1, and Japan goes first in the game…

@kungfujew:

P.S.
kaufschtick, my invitation to play you and your super/uber/unbeatable moves still stands, even if just so that I can see how exactly the whole thing plays out so I can try to think of how I would kick you in the pants if you used it a second time.  :p

Look, I came on here to find strategies for the Allies in this game, and to see if others were seeing the same high ratio of Japanese wins in the game as we were. To reinforce or debunk our suspicion that the game was broken. If you want to see how this thing plays out, I hate to tell you that there is no script to what we’ve seen. I’ve laid out the basics of what the Japanese pursue already, you can go back and read them.

@jim010:

I’ll play you KFJ, but it won’t be Kauf’s tactics, as I prefer my own.  Let me know.

See, Jim is doing the same type of thing, different meathod.

As far as the moves I have described in my posts,  they are not my “super/uber/unbeatable” moves. They are moves that my friend and I (mostly my best friend) came to develope over many playings of the game. It’s not the moves that are so tough for the Allies to overcome, it’s the general situation and strategy.

You seem to be missing the point that I didn’t come here looking for an opponent, although I’m not opposed to the idea if friendly relations develope with folks on here.  :-)

When my friends and I play, we play to have fun, we drinks lots of beer, smoke a lot of cigars (usually), and have a blast. We aren’t worried about super/uber moves, or really who wins or looses. We do like to play the game well, don’t get me wrong, but mostly we’re looking for a good game and good company.

In answer to your “invitation”, I only play games amongst friends.

So if I don’t accept your invitation, you’ll know why.