Posts made by JLord

Here is what I was thinking…  Not saying that I’m the first person ever to think of this, but what do you think?

Assume Russia does a standard W.Rus stack opening and does not take out any German figs.

Germany uses a typical African bid.  Germany buys 2 bombers and some ground troops.

Germany takes Africa with the bid units as usual.  Germany takes the UK battleship with it’s battleship and planes.  Germnay takes Gibraltar with one inf.  Germany leaves 1 inf in Belarus and Ukraine and consolodates its Eastern forces in E.Europe.  Germany lands all its planes in W.Europe and leaves 4 inf there for defence.

So how do you respond to this as UK?  If UK attacks the SZ7 fleet with everything it is 1 battleship, 2 transports, 2 fighters, and 1 bomber vs. 3 subs, 1 destroyer, and 1 transport.  This is a dangerous battle for the UK.  Unless they get 5 hits on the first roll there will be surviving subs sitting in that SZ.  And even if they do take out everything, they will probably lose 1 or 2 transports and leave that battleship sitting there by itself within range of Germany’s battleship, 6 figs, and 3 bombers.  This gives an obvious advantage to Germany as Uk’s fleet will be destroyed completely at the expense of Germany’s northern fleet.  Plus UK can immediately start making landings without building up a defence force because of Germany’s strong airforce.

But UK could make this attack and then purchase a carrier and destroyer for SZ7 as well.  Suppose UK does make the attack with the best results possible and don’t lose any transports.  Then they buy 1 carrier and 1 destroyer.  Now on G2 they will have 1 carrier, 1 battleship, 2 figs, 1 destroyer, 2 transports.  If Germany attacks with 6 figs, 3 bombers, 1 battleship, 1 transport they have a 100% win (according to frood) with the most like result being the loss of the transport and 2 planes.  So again, Germany has sacrificed it’s northern fleet and an extra 28 IPCs in exchange for UK fleet plus 2 fighters plus 28 IPCs.  Another very good situation for Germany.

But, the US could block the German battleship by moving a destroyer and two transports into SZ12 and landing troops in Algeria.  In this case Germany would be attacking the Uk fleet with planes only.  Germany is still a near 100% winner in this battle with the likely losses being 5 figs.  In addition Germany could attack the US blocking fleet with its battleship and transport.  This is a close battle, and the most likely result is the destruction of both fleets.  A sacrifice of 32 German IPC for 28 US IPC.  I’m not sure about the merits of this battle.  But in this situation the UK have lost 1 battleship, 1 carrier, 1 destroyer, 2 transports, and 2 fighers.  Germany has lost 3 subs, 1 transport, 1 destroyer, 5 fighters.  So 88 UK IPCs for 94 German IPCs.  But it may be worth it considering that Germany will now have several turns alone with Russia.

But remember, this is all assuming that UK loses nothing on its initial UK1 battle and that Germany cannot submerge any subs.  It is far more likely that Uk will be down 2 transport and Germany will still have 1 or 2 subs left in SZ7.  This makes the resulting battle far more favourable to Germany.

continued…

What about going for long range aircraft and then also bombing Japan from Western Canada?  How much would it cost to do this in exchange for taking 8 off Japan and 16 off Germany each turn?  Probably way too much…

Does anyone have an example of a well played KJF game that was succesful for the allies?

Well I wouldn’t go that far…  If Germany does succesfully take England, then they get around 38 IPC.  This would be an extra 12 inf to drop down in Europe.  Plus you would seriously delay any invasion attempts of the mainland.  US would have to retake, but UK would still be in constant danger and would eat up a lot of US resources.  In the meantime you could probably drop down a build of 12-16 tanks, or 16 inf, and start marching East.  This would be enough to at least turn the tide of the Eastern front back in Germany’s favour.  So I’m not saying the chances are great, but if Germany does take UK, I feel they have a nice advantage.

Is a transport purchase on G1 a winning play?  There is still the benefit of forcing UK’s hand and making them buy land troops in England rather than an IC or a navy.  So is it worth it?

I use it occasionally as Germany and it seems to work out pretty good.  Of course the threat in UK is always countered, but it does delay the allied fleet buildup, and it allows you to shuttle lots of infantry to Karelia.  Or are these benefits not worth spending an entire turn on the German navy?

So suppose Germany makes an initial purchase of 1 carrier, 3 transports.  He places them in the Baltic and leaves 4 inf and 4 arm in Western Europe poised to attack UK.  How do you respond as UK?

What about a purchase of 5 transports, leaving 6 arm + 6 inf poised to attack?

Retaking Egypt is a very good use of those troops as well.  But sometimes it is not possible.  And Egypt is nothing more than a minor delay for Gemany unless you have immediate help in Africa.  Wheras Borneo and New Guinia in a KJF game will likely result in 5 IPC every turn for the entire game.  A benefit that nearly offsets losing all of Africa.

But I do like retaking Egypt as well.  But in a KJF game?

That’s true.  But wouldn’t you rather than Uk had the extra 5 IPC?  The US can still take East Indies or Philipines for an IC.

I thought the generally accepted rules of bidding were that you couldn’t place more than one unit in the same territory?  Anyways, that is the rule we would follow.  And the thing is, if Allies put 12 IPC somehwere, the Axis will place their bid next and can presumably counter whatever the allies do.

Like I said, both sides would get a bid and the allies would have to place first.  Then the axis would place knowing what the allies did.

So I am usually playing 5 man games and our games are generally pretty even between axis and allied wins without using any bid.  So we have never used a bid.  I think it might be a bit easier to organize the allied attack when you are in control of all 3 sides.

Anyways, we were thinking of giving a bid of say 10 or 12 to both the axis and the allies.  Just to add some variety to the opening strategy and change things up a bit.  The assumption is that it would use normal bidding rules and the allies would place their bid first.  So if you were allies in this situation where would place a bid of 10?  Of 12?  And do you think the game would still be even, or would something like this just wreck the game?  (bearing in mind that results for us are generally balanced with no bid)

1. I usually put minimal forces towards Japan.  No more than are already in the Eastern USSR territories at the start of the game.

3. For me it depends on what Germany does to threaten the UK fleet.  If Germany could take out my UK fleet with its Baltic fleet and airforce, then I will make a few landings in Karelia via SZ 4 to avoid an attack.  Once I have defeated the German fleet then I usually like to keep the pressure on France with attacks every round unless Russia is in trouble.

5. Once the German fleet is destroyed, I like to land US forces in France as well.  This forces Germany to devote almost all their forces to holding or retaking France every turn.  Initially, I will make landings in Algeria to avoid getting taken out by a German fleet.  That also forced Germany to protect Italy somehow and allows you to land there if Germany is careless.

@ajgundam5:

But if UK loses India / Egypt Japan has a path into Asia and unless US builds an IC in Sinkiang on US1 there is only Russia to defend it

I’d say in most games I play that is the case.  I rarely build an IC in India or Sink.

But I guess if you are trying to go KJF you would probably want an IC in both.  And I guess that would involve defending India with Russian forces for one or two turnes if you wanted to grab Borneo and New Guinia.  Might be possible…

@newpaintbrush:

I feel that Borneo/New Guinea for UK1 is overextension, and that the Japanese will make the UK pay.

How would they make Uk pay?  By taking India early?  By killing the UK Pacific fleet early?

I’m just saying that if you are going to be throwing US fleets at Japan right from the start, it is very difficult for Japan to ever get around to taking back Borneo and New Guinia.  This amounts to an extra 5 IPC for UK for the entire game.  I think this is well worth losing your pacific fleet, losing India, and losing the chance of a Egypt counter.  Stacking India or countering in Egypt will give you extra IPC for a few turns, but I don’t think they match the benefits of holding 5 IPC for the entire game without having to spend any UK resources in defence.

I agree that sometimes Borneo and NEw Guinia are not the best option.  I think you can’t really have a set plan for the UK fleet because it really depends on what Germany does.

In a recent game I took Borneo and New guinia on UK1.  I wasn’t going KJF, this was just my usual strat.  But then Pearl was a disaster for the Japanese (the US carrier survived) so I decided to go full out against Japan.  I sent fleets into the pacific and Japan had to deal with them.  UK kept Borneo and New Guinia the entire game.  And think about, if the US is going after Japan full out, when will Japan ever have the chance to take Borneo and New Guinia back?  The extra 5 IPC is very useful for the UK.  I spent nothing to defend them, and that was 5 IPC every turn to use in Europe and Africa.

If I were going for Japan I would rather use the Indian transport to either take Borneo, take Egypt back, or help reinforce India.  I think either of those is better than bringing it into the naval battle in SZ 59.

Just wondering what most people like to do.  Assume that the US abandons the Pacific after a succesful pearl harbour attack on J1.  Do you make efforts to take Australia, NZ, and Hawaii (or any of these) right away, or do you just pour everything into Asia?  Why, or why not?

TripleA does stop it.  I just tried.

So you guys recommend leaving caucus alone even if it has one guy in it?

What is the best response from Germany to this move?