Posts made by JamesG

I know CJenn’s tactic. � It’s just another variation of what we’ve had since the summer of 2010. �

I think hitting 109, 111, 112, and 106 but not 110 and 91 is more corriganbp’s tactic.  CJenn does it too now, but I think she used to hit SZ110 instead of 109 until corriganbp convinced her 109 was better.

If I had to leave 1 alone, it would be sz111, as those ships can’t get away from you on turn 2.

The only reason to leave one of the UK BBs alone is so you can do 109.  I don’t think you can do both 109 and 110 (along with 112 and 106 heavy) due to UK scramble options.  They, with France, can scramble 3 fighters to 110 or 4 to 109.  They can’t do both scrambles at the same time of course, but as Germany you have to cover for both and I don’t think they have enough air to do so, at least not without skimping a bit in another battle.

Interesting Jim.  I know that Cmdr Jennifer and corriganbp are both strong sealion advocates and both hit SZ109 and SZ106 hard and do not hit SZ110.  I beleive the reasoning is twofold.  One to make sure UK has no Atlantic TRNs to shuffle troops around and two they have no DDs to kill off surviving German subs with air, allowing said subs to convoy on UK1.  But you show that it is not a given that everyone leaves SZ110 alone.  I know Jenn claims to get her G3 sealion chances into the low to mid 90s by convoying and strat bombing the UK, along with preventing reinforcement via TRN.  What chances to you usually see on your G3 sealion given the fact that UK can use a DD kill off convoy subs and can use TRNs to reinforce?  Do you hit SZ106 with two subs to make sure you get that TRN/DD pair?

@Spendo02:

I ran it through this morning.  Leaving the BB and Cru alive in SZ110 is a pivotal mistake for a Sealion.  It ends up leaving subs attacking over defending aircraft with no DD left to take hits.  That = sunk Trn for Germany.

If the UK and Russia both bought subs you can be sure that on G3 that Germany would buy DDs instead of a BB.  To do otherwise makes no sense.

Also keep this tactic in mind.  When Russia attacks on R3 Germany should take a hit (or 2) on a carrier and land the carrier planes in London.  Those planes can then scramble on the US3/UK3 attacks.  This will allow Germany to scramble up to six planes in SZ110.

Also keep in mind that Germany might abandon sealion and go full on Barbarossa starting on G2 after seeing the R1 purchase.  Yes, you prevented sealion but would Russia have enough boots on the ground after spending so much on sea and air on R1?  The G1 purchase is useful even if Germany abandons sealion.  I’m not saying the Allies can’t win in this situation, but it is something to consider.

I do like the move of the SZ110 and SZ91 boats to SZ109 on UK1.  This should kill the convoy SSs at the cost of damaged BB, if that.  And with Gib fighter in Scotland, UK/France can scramble 5 fighters in SZ109 should Germany attack it on G2.  Most people seem to run those ships to SZ92 but SZ109 might be a better plan for them.  Though if two or more German SSs are in range of SZ109 on G2 they may still be able to attack along with overwhelming air such that if UK does scramble they lose more air than Germany does.  (not sure about this though).  In any case, Germany isn’t going to Strat bomb UK and attack SZ109 both on G2, and any time you can make someone pick between two things he’d like to do that is a good thing.

Spendo02,

I can’t take credit for the AB in Holland idea, its just something I’ve read the top sealion players propose as a response to seeing the US stage for a stike at the German fleet in SZ110.

Speaking of the top sealion players, they seem to put more of an effort into killing UK TRNs on G1 than your play-thru did.  They send two SSs to SZ106 and two SSs and a lot of air to SZ109 (so much air that even if UK/France scramble all four fighters they will still probably lose, though they would take out some German fighters/Tacs before losing).  They do leave SZ110 alive on G1.  So you might want re-examine your strat assuming both UK TRNs and DDs are dead, but UK1 will have a BB and Cruiser in SZ110.

Oh, and I think you were right to leave two Fighters on Scotland instead of one on Eire and one Scotland.  Since fighters can scramble from Scotland you want them there to force Germany to overcommit air to SZ119 to protect the TRNs.

Interesting outline, but there may be a couple of issues with it.

@Spendo02:

Germany lands via SZ110 also because it can place 3 DD there that it purchases in G3.

If Germany lands via SZ110 they will probably put an airbase in Holland and land scramblers there on G3 to protect the fleet.  They will need to buy at least one DD due to the heavy SS buy on UK2, but they may not need 3 DDs due to the airbase.

Also, with all those subs bought on UK2 and all those planes and ground forces diverted to Iceland, Scotland, and Eire are you sure that Germany can’t afford to divert transports to take Scotland and Eire?  If London is light on defense, can Germany afford to send only 7 or 8 TRNs with the fleet to SZ110 and send the other 6 or 5 TRNs, with air cover to protect against Scotland scramblers, to SZ119 and dump in Scotland and Eire?  I have not run the numbers to see how feasible this would be, but it was my first thought when I saw how lightly defended you propose leaving London.

Of course if Germany did this any TRNs sent to SZ119 would die on the US or UK counter, but the bulk of the German navy including more than half the TRNs would still be alive in SZ110.

Jenn,

It doesn’t have to be J3 for an assault on India, though you have been the one espousing taking out the UK on both sides of the board on Turn 3.  But what about these questions regarding a J4 assault:

2a) How much harder is it to take India J4 after the UK gets another round to stack?
2b) Does the extra round Japan has to spend staging for a J4 attack on Calcutta give the ANZ and the US enough time to prepare for Japan swinging back east?

If I read you correctly, you are saying that US builds and postioning in the Atlantic on US1 is the thing that would make you not do a J2 DoW.  Can you provide more detail on what US1 should look like in the Atlantic to punish Germany for a J2 DoW?

Thanks.

@Cmdr:

@JamesG:

@Cmdr:

Take Calcutta round 3, don’t split the fleet.

Are you attacking on J2?  Because if you are not either the UK or ANZ should be able to get a warship into SZ37 on turn 2, which will block any transports in SZ36 from participating in the J3 attack on Calcutta.  Or are you taking Calcutta on J3 with only three transports?

I am not sure where all these round 2 attacks on Calcutta rumors came from but no.  The best time to attack is on Round 3 almost all of the time.  Otherwise, you could allow the Americans to attack the German fleet and make Russia super easy to play!

I would attack on round 2 under the following circumstances:
1)  There was a large stack of yummy, handsome Brits in Burma
2)  America had only the starting or almost only the starting Atlantic Units
3)  England’s being annoying and trying to put all their destroyers out everywhere (this includes Australia which is literally part of the British Commonwealth)

Otherwise, attack on round 3 with a more decisive victory on both sides of the Prime Meridian.

Jenn,

You are missing my point.  What I’m saying is if you don’t declare war on UK/ANZ on J2, then you can’t prevent them from getting a warship to SZ37 on turn 2.  That warship will prevent any TRNs in SZ36 from participating in a J3 assault on Calcutta.  So a six TRN attack on Calcutta on J3 is impossible unless Japan declares war on J2.  Assuming of course UK/ANZ have at least one warship in range of SZ37 going into turn two (a reasonable assumption).

So it seems Japan’s options for an early round attack on Calcutta are a J2 declaration of war followed by a J3 sacking of India, or a J3 declaration followed by a J4 attack on Calcutta.

The questions are:

1. What are the best things for the US to do to make the Axis pay for J2 attack?
   or
   2a) How much harder is it to take India J4 after the UK gets another round to stack?
   2b) Does the extra round Japan has to spend staging for a J4 attack on Calcutta give the ANZ and the US enough time to prepare for Japan swinging back east?

@Cmdr:

Take Calcutta round 3, don’t split the fleet.

Are you attacking on J2?  Because if you are not either the UK or ANZ should be able to get a warship into SZ37 on turn 2, which will block any transports in SZ36 from participating in the J3 attack on Calcutta.  Or are you taking Calcutta on J3 with only three transports?

@Violent.copper:

sz 110 max defender 1 cruiser 1 bb 2  fighters
send
108
103
germ 2bombers and 1 tac(landing on the sz 112 AC)
west germ 1 fighter 1 tac
95%

The Allies can defend with a max of 3 scrambled fighters, not just 2.  That French fighter in London can scramble as well.  And remember that any casualties caused by the allied air must come out of German air, the subs can not be used as fodder vs. air.  This will not matter if the cruiser and BB get two hits before they die, but it is a factor to consider.  Germany will still win, but it will be a little more costly.  I’ll leave it to better minds than mine to calculate if it is better in the long term for the allies to scramble or hold the fighters in reserve for defense during the sealion invasion.

@JamesG:

@Cmdr:

okay, well, be 25-27 this round…not sure if I can pound Russia into submission before America gets super annoying.  At least you proved my point - America has PLENTY of time to crush Japan.

Wait - I thought your point to this game was to show the Allies could win in Alpha+3 after a successful German sealion?

Doh, stupid typo on my part.  That was Noll’s point.  Jennifer’s was the reverse, she wanted to show that the Allies were in a hopeless position in Alpha+3 due to the German sealion tactic being brokenly overpowered.

Anyway, I’ve been enjoying following this match - kudos to you both.

YG,

Have I offended you and landed on your ignore list?  :wink:

I do like the blueprint and think this does show why killing UK DDs and TRNs should be a Gerrman priority on G1.  Which made me wonder what your UK plans are in the event Germany follows through on that.

Thanks.

@Cmdr:

okay, well, be 25-27 this round…not sure if I can pound Russia into submission before America gets super annoying.  At least you proved my point - America has PLENTY of time to crush Japan.

Wait - I thought your point to this game was to show the Allies could win in Alpha+3 after a successful German sealion?

It seems this blueprint assumes that Germany hit sz110 instead of sz109.  If instead they hit and cleared 109, 106, and 111 and thus UK has no Destroyers in the Atlantic, do you have contingencies on what to do with the UK air that can no longer attack subs?  Or do they just move to the landing spots you mention as a non-combat move?  Also, if Gemany didn’t hit sz110, the UK has an extra BB and Cruiser to play around with.  What would they do?

Or is this a “assume Germany cleared sz110, 111, and 112” blueprint?

@Clyde85:

I would also tend to agree with JamesG that as Britian I would likely respond to the attack in sz109 with 4 fighters, mainly because the attack on sz111 is so vicious that to scramble a plane seems like a waste.

I’m not sure I would scramble in sz109, but if I was going to scramble it would be 4 Fighters.  As you say, scrambling one in sz111 would not be wise, as all you would do is increase the odds of getting a German plane while all but assuring you would lose the UK plane.

As to whether I would scramble at all in 109, I would need to run some odds to see what the likely outcomes are and then see what those outcomes do to a German sealion chance.

Just eyeballing it it looks like Gemany winning with one Strat Bomber left is the most likely outcome, so both sides would lose 4 planes.  I’d think that would increase the chances of a successful German sealion, but I have run the odds to see for sure.

@Young:

However, let’s take my blue print and assume that the UK scrambles 3 allied fighters into 109

Wouldn’t it be risky for the Allies to scramble into 109?  But if they do scramble, wouldn’t it be four fighters?  (3 from London, 1 from Scotland)

So we would have
Attacker: 1 sub, 2 strategic bombers, 2 fighters, 1 tac bomber (20 pips, 6 units)
vs.
Defender: 1 DD, 4 Fighters (18 pips, 5 units)

Slight edge for the attacker, and likely that the Allies lose the same or more planes than Germany, which I think would favor Germany’s sea lion chances.

@Jercules:

The decision to bypass sz110 for sz109 is interesting.

If you shift the units assigned to attack 109 to 110, you invite the UK to scramble.  You would have
Attacker: 1 sub, 2 strategic bombers, 2 fighters, 1 tac bomber (20 pips, 6 units)
vs.
Defender: 1 Cruiser, 1 Battleship, 3 Fighters (19 pips, 6 units, remember the BB counts as two units)

That is a pretty even battle, and will probably cause the Germans to lose more planes than the UK.  I’m not sure how that impacts sea lion, since it hurts both sides.

Sounds like you have it right now kmp7765. Yes, if you have 5 left over, you roll one die at 5.  Example 3 tanks and 2 Inf attacking (33+21=11) get one automatic hit and get a second hit if they roll a 5 or less.

I agree low luck is a good tool for testing strategies.  One thing to watch out for though, if you are testing strategies that you intend to use for real dice games later, is to not get too hung up on making sure every battle is 100% efficient.  In low luck you can calculate exactly what you need to win a battle.  But in real dice you don’t know for sure, so in real dice you sometimes over-kill just to make sure you win.  Another thing to watch out for is straffing.  In low luck, since you can determine within a hit on either side exactly how many hits will be dealt, a strafe attack is very safe.  You’ll never end up accidently killing a target you wanted to strafe due to lucky attack dice, or end up losing out on the exchange due to lucky defensive dice.  So you probably want to stay away from a lot of straffing attacks as using a lot of them could warp your perceptions of how a effective the overall strategy would be in a real dice game.

@theROCmonster:

I am currently on T5 and US still cannot take phillipines as japan has a fleet there that is much too large to take out.

How is Japan doing in Asia and the DEI?  If they are turtling in the Phillipines is India and China holding them back on the land, and India/ANZAC making money from the islands?

@Young:

@Cmdr:

@Young:

Great to hear that my purchase strategy found some success, did they also use my movement strategy of sailing ships to the Queensland shore during peace time?

Pretty sure American ships on the Atlantic have to be in sea zones adjacent to American territories until America is at war, so sailing to SZ 106 is not an option.

The Queensland coast is in Australia on the Pacific board.

Right, the only restrictions to US movement on the Pacific board are:

In addition to the normal restrictions (see Powers Not at War with One Another above), while it’s not at war with Japan, the United States may not move units into or through China or end the movement of its sea units in sea zones that are adjacent to Japanese-controlled territories.

So it is perfectly legal to move US ships down there.

@Cmdr:

Example:

Germany sends 5 Fighters, 5 Tactical Bombers, 2 Strategic Bombers from Holland to England.
England has 4 AA Guns and 1 Fighter on it.

Start of Combat:

Opening Fire:
England rolls 12 AA Gun shots.
Germany selects any fighter or bomber of its choice until all hits have been assigned.
Battle:
Germany rolls attack dice against the defending fighter and AA Guns.
England assigns any hits to the fighter and/or AA Guns.
England rolls defense dice for the fighter.
Germany selects a hit if one was scored and removes said plane from battle.  English units assigned hits earlier are removed as well.
Repeat the Battle sequence until all units from one side are destroyed or Germany retreats.
Germany lands any surviving planes during NCM

I’ve added corrections to the quote in bold.

Don’t forget that defending AA Guns can be taken as casualties now.  In a battles where the attacker is strongly favored to win, AA Guns will typically be the first caualties since they don’t add any dice to the battle past the initial AA phase.  In effect they become free hits.  In battles where it is less clear that the attacker will win the defender has to decide when/if to lose the AA Guns, similiar the decisions now made regarding when to lose defending Strat Bombers.

Plus they can now be taken as casualties in combat, and can no longer be captured.