Posts made by ItIsILeClerc

As far as I know there isn’t a single SL fake that does NOT also hurt the axis options in defeating Russia.
You could try to slip in 1 or 2 TRS in your GE1 build to make the UK cower in London because of fear (after all, you CAN go wild if the UK doesn’t prepare properly), hopefully limiting the damage to Barbarossa with only so few TRS built.

Similarly, you could fake Barbarossa and launch a nasty surprise attack on London if the UK goes into the mediterranean too strong. Lots of UK players leave London terribly weak after they think to be certain you are going after Russia. Make sure you can buy 10TRS GE2 and turn around your wehrmacht to punish. IT2 can raid the London AB so the UK cannot scramble GE3 (5/6 times, I know…).

An interesting alternative is to buy nothing at all GE1, to leave all options open, thus forcing the UK to protect London. Your barbarossa will be a little less threatening but the UK should be much more cautious because Germany can punish any misstep.

By GE2 however, your plans will (and should) be crystal clear to every1. Germany cannot afford to ‘keep all the options open’ GE2. In case of a SL fake, the UK is free to pursue Italy from then on.

The best you can achieve is that your UK opponents will come to fear your German surprises in the future and protect/cower accordingly thus giving Italy some breathing space.

The downside of all of this, is that the UK can stack London massively from UK1 and still do ‘Taranto’, thwarting all Germany can do about London with a fake, save a dedicated sea lion from the start (which involves the buying of at least a CV as well)…

You are correct, sir.

@Rasmustb:

So I definetlly don’t think a “‘Taranto’ is too much for the UK”. Quite the contrary! Sinking that sz97 fleet leaves the italian fleet in crumbles making it way more manageable for the brits even without heavy investments…

You are absolutely right, sir!
I think we can agree on the UK being foolish if they ‘Taranto’ when Germany prepares for Sea Lion?

My point of ‘Taranto’ UK1 possibly being a bridge too far, comes if Germany has made no visible preparations for SL (!beware of the German who buys nothing at all GE1), but is known for launching a surprise SL.

The UK can do ‘Taranto’ then but only if it is willing to stack London with Infantry in UK1. Still many dicerolls involved and London will most likely fall, but at what cost. With 33 units in London GE3, Germany can still crush the brits or gain a pyrrhic victory (and anything in between). Except of course if the UK is played by an extremely gifted dice roller who studied on and made it his/her strategy to roll 1’s and 2’s ;-).

Always be wary of a surprise German attack on London, even if they display an all-barabarossa build.
Once you feel safe enough, attack Italy. This can be UK1 or UK2 and depends on -for example- the level of your opponents (can you expect a surprise SL-attack from them?), what the UK has built and what the Germans are doing.

@ItIsILeClerc:

I must say I’d love to spread communism into Africa, but so far it has only been a theory for me.

Now I am quoting myself, it is going downhill with me  :wink:…

Sending just 1 Russian mech into Africa also seems to be worth a LOT (doing it in my current game).
The 1 mech is not a miss in Moskou (RAF has 9 Spitfires and 1 Mosquito there as well), and it just took Ethiopia (RU6), Somaliland will follow next turn, so that 1 mech gives 7IPCs/turn already. Now if the UK can only stay its hand on Tobruk/Libya…

Yes. Everything that cannot make it into Alexandria before Italy could attack it, stays in Egypt.

Last time I played Allies, I put an UK blocker in sz96 and sz99 so italy could not reach attack Egypt by sea. Must have looked like this:
-sz96: DD
-sz99: CA
-sz81: CV
-sz98: TRS (I channeled the Malta INF+AAA into Alexandria), this means the TRS will be sunk IT1/GE2
Alexandria: all air + land units.

But, I can imagine (not yet calculated though) that UK doesnt need blockers in sz96, 99 because if Italy comes into Egypt by sea, UK will next attack into Egypt (and the Italian fleet in 98) instead of retreating there, basically achieving the same…
Edit: scrap that. Italy can just attack Alexandria if there’s no blockers.

I must say I’d love to spread communism into Africa, but so far it has only been a theory for me.

With heavy German airsupport, Italy can grab Alexandria It1.
Italy Always has a 1 turn window of opportunity for an attack in Africa in the med It2, so that can be Egypt if they can take Alexandria It1. UK must at least prevent a crushing defeat if the Germans launch a surprise Sea Lion, so anything really aggressive in the med, even a ‘Taranto’, may just be too much for the UK.

Therefore, imho, UK has few good options when German heavy airsupport and an Italian march forward into Alexandria can be expected (know thy enemy ;-)):

• UK stacks Alexandria heavily so that Italy cannot take it It1, and retreats into Egypt UK2.

• UK takes Tobruk to eliminate Italians.

• UK takes Ethiopia to eliminate Italians.

• UK takes Persia UK1.

The first two options will (most likely) result in the loss of the local TRS and make spreading communism into Africa less likely (it takes a long time for Russia if the UK cannot annex NW Persia UK2). Remember you cannot blitz through friendly neutrals and thus Russia can only attack Iraq RU4 on a GE3 DOW.
It will, however, guarantee the safety of Egypt (I do not take dice swinery into account).

I have no experience with the 3rd option. It seems to me Egypt will still be in grave danger (albeit temporarily), Russia cannot attack Iraq RU3 (given the GE3 DOW), but the TRS lives.

Only the last option will give Russia the optimal attack on Iraq (RU3), the TRS lives, but Egypt will have to be handed over to the Italians temporarily.

This is my personal experience. I think I have an unhealthy idea that Egypt should NOT fall into axis hands so I Always opt for either of the first two options…
I guess it is a matter of preference and I think taking Persia, giving up Egypt temporarily and thus allowing Russia an optimal attack on Iraq may be well worth it!

I don’t see why this would off topic ;-). Axis strategies regarding the med. Germany is a worthy axis member so there we go!

To be honest: I never even tried to tip the balance in favor of the axis by sending German land units into the med. That is, apart from loading them into Italian transports and then unloading them into Africa, which is just too risky imho (Germans load, UK then sinks the TRS if you are not extremely careful).

The way I see it, Germany has 4 grand strategical options/points of focus. Germany would be wise not to try and focus on more than one of them (like launching Barbarossa and Sea Lion at the same time). One of them is taking Africa. I’d think that might work and the IC in Yugho seems the better AND safer option with some decent German focus. Russia is the main reason why I think an IC in Yugho is the better option. You don’t want to be forced by angry British and American ships/aircraft to also invest heavily into your navy if going around Gibraltar, since you already weaken your army against Russia by sending more men and equipment into Africa…

Yup, German planes landing in Alexandria (and possibly Egypt a later turn) is a good way to delay the UK supremacy in Africa (but usually not more than that if Germany wants to threaten Moscow seriously -i.e. does not want to loose some or all of its luftwaffe in Africa).
Downside of this is of course that the UK could place several TRS somewhere in the atlantic as the German air-threat is now somewhere else…
The very pesky downside of a delay in Africa for the UK remains: they will be (too?) late to arrive in NW Persia in force to contest Germany in the Caucasus/Stalingrad.

IMHO, UK just has a lot of options and all are equally viable. Be it ‘Taranto’, the Tobruk strafe/conquest, Ethiopia.
My game where we executed a ‘surprise-Sea-Lion’ for Germany is still inconclusive but if this turns out to be a successfull German option, UK options in the med might be reduced to ‘evacuate everything possible into Gibraltar to be at the best possible strategic location’ to thwart the fall of London OR to start attacking into the med UK2 once it has become clear Germany has no nasty surprises in store for the UK…

I am currently struggeling with the (if/when) placement of an IC in Persia to counter this delay for the UK since an IC here does mean a slower build up for DDay (UK sinking IPCs into Persia).
A better option might be to just take the DEI-islands with that TRS at Calcutta and have India produce 1 or 2 FTR, along with some MECH (instead of ART) that can race towards Caucasus.

Yeah,

the way I see it (although I have no proof of it, its an estimation), the earlier Germany DOWs Russia, the stronger the UK will emerge from the first round battles. OR Germany messes up its fronts with the Russians.

@Whitshadw:

(…)If I see Germany’s round 1 buys and troop
Movements aren’t anything to do with a Sealion then this is my main setup as England round 1 (…)

And what about a surprise Sea Lion?
I have seen (and executed) a Barbarossa feighn, just to achieve what you seem to be doing UK1: UK building nothing in London at all and its med fleet dispositioned (or destroyed) in the med.

Germany can still buy 10 TRS GE2 and RAID UK IC+AB (Italy can use its STR (+FTR) to RAID the UK airbase after UK’s turn as well so comes GE3 the UK cannot scramble).
With only some UK2 builds to protect London after repairing its IC, no option to scramble (most likely), the German surprise attack on London is very effective. Particularly if UK has built an IC in Egypt that suddenly falls silent because London cannot collect any income anymore.

I find it very dangerous, that IC in Egypt UK1. But I would consider building it UK2 instead for certain!

I like the consolidating move in the med,
but I must admit I have some doubts about an IC in Egypt that early on. I’ll try this one out next game I play. Usually I build 2FTR+2INF in London and when the possibility of even a surprise Sea Lion is gone I’ll fly the FTR over to Africa->Egypt.

The 2FTR+2INF can make Germany’s victory in London a Pyrrhus one, even if UK executes ‘Taranto’ UK1. Building an IC in Egypt UK1 leaves London with building max 5INF UK1 for defense. 2 less combat factors, but 1 more unit… Might work ;-).

I agree with Gamerman!
UK makes a stand when it can take down a lot of Japanese air with it. Makes defending the other two VC so much easier.

If you cannot hit a lot of Japanese air, retreat and you may even be able to take India back immediately if Japan walks in with all his might. Depends on how much RAF the UK has in the middle east and how much Japan has invested in taking India. Remember Japanese air cannot land there if he takes it.

It is not too hard for the UK to return to India with those Indians + European reinforcements having 120+ attack factors from 50-70 units. Japan will have to invest so heavily in holding India and/or keeping its airforce around for defense, that hunting for the other VCs (Hawai, Sydney) cannot receive much investments/the much needed air units.
Because if they do, they may well end up with Hawai taken (or not) while the UK kicks them out of Calcutta again!

@cyanight:

One of my nastier moves when things are going well in the pac is to stack up a NG SZ and put down a seabase, this creates all kinds of headaches, but it isnt always viable if USA is coming after u strong in the pac.

Curious… but why the Naval base?

I can tell you why -I- would do it (in fact, I sometimes do it at Java). With the NB you have a reaction force that can reach Sydney, New Zealand, either of Hawai/Calcutta -basically everywhere on the Pacific except the sea of Japan itself- in 1 sortie.

You can observe the allies’ mistakes and take advantage of it in 1 turn. If they do not make any mistakes, at least you have a strong strategic position.

@knp7765:

I don’t think just getting an IC OR transports is the answer. You really need both.

This is what I think as well.

Please define “nobody” ;-).

I am defeinately not part of that group…
I remember having built 5 IC’s in Mainland Asia (Hong, Shang, FIC, Mal, Shantung). I even built 4 ABs and 2 NBs on them (Malaya and Hong already have a NB). I call this “The East Coast Industries”…

But it really depends on what you want to/must do with Japan if and how many IC’s you can build.
If the USA is focusing you down I imagine it’s the worst thing to do to build lots of industry there (1 or 2 IC’s are maybe ok, I don’t know, I have no experience with a KJF -yet).

4. Beer is right. I don’t know if he thinks he qualifies or not but he gave some good advice ;-).
   I’d only like to specify a bit more for you so it’s easier for you to work with. Do not split the US income 50/50 (Pac/Eur), but roughly 20/80 or 80/20.

Allies must be patient and build up and reinforce key strongpoints so that it is beyond the Axis to take those. The key strongpoints are:
#1 Moscow (Russia must build as much land units as it can and the UK can provide some RAF if needed)
#2 Egypt/Middle east/South Afrika (try to hold Egypt but fall back towards ME/SA if you cannot. Keep your army intact!)
#3 Gibraltar/London (UK and US invasion forces are build up here, ready to strike)
#4 Sydney (ANZAC turns it into a fortress, or builds offensively in synergy with the US’ Pac spending)
#5 Hawai (what you do here depends on your Pac/Eur spending ratio. >Pac will be offensive and >Eur will be defensive).

You may notice that India is not in the list, that’s correct. Just keep it as long as possible and fall back as soon as you Judge Japan will attack it and take it next turn in an unfavourable ratio for the UK.

Don’t panic If a strongpoint falls. Usually you are in good shape to take it back soon, or the axis exausted themselves to take it, gaining a mere Pyrrhic victory. At least, that is your strategy ;-).

You need to Judge when to switch to the offensive, but the usual key is when you can take back lost ground without immediately being kicked out again.

There is a lot more but let’s leave it at this for your first game ;-)

Poor Iceage…

He wants to know how to finally defeat Germany and you provide him with yet another German win.
Shame on you, sir ;-)

Well done! Trying to stay on topic, may I ask what turn we are speaking of?
Judging by the number and type of Germans I guess this must have happened GE8 earliest.

Maybe you can try to explain what you think Russia/the Allies did wrong in your game and/or what they could have done to prevent the fall of Moskou/their loss?

After all, the Axis players themselves often know best how their plans can be hindered (having inside information about their plans), whereas the allies have to guess.
I know I do. When I’m playing Axis against a strong allied side I Always end up thinking: “If only they [Allies] will NOT do this or that, my win is secure but damn if they do it I am screwed!”

Last time I played Axis I won because Germany could take India (Moscow really was too fortified) while Japan was firmly in control of Hawai.
All because the USA had neglected the Pacific too much. Had the USA been stronger there, I would have lost the game with THE German army in India/middle east, Russia + Wallies at the gates of Berlin and USA/ANZAC firmly in control of Hawai and Sydney.

As far as deception goes you have a point.
There will be people not knowing what to do. Deception is always good. In fact, in my experience, it is the only way the axis can win this game against strong allied player(s) because if they make no mistakes they’ll win.

Having said that, Variance is right of course.
I would like to say the deception is too obvious. Experienced allied players most likely will not have Britain fall for it and you will be forced to go Barbarossa with 4 land units less than normal, to Russia’s comfort.

Furthermore, the attack on SZ109 really is asking for trouble. Make up your mind and attack 2 of the 3 SZones around Britain you really want out of the equasion with overwhelming force. For example: take out SZ111 and SZ109 by sending at least 24 combat factors into SZ109 and 18 for SZ111. This leaves enough room to also attack either SZ106 or the Cruiser at Gibraltar, or both if you want to gamble.

I want to point out that my personal experience with whatever Sea-Lion Germany can bring about, is not very cheerful for the axis.
The Americans will liberate London and leave Germany with only a small income to face an invasion force of 30-34 American men and aircraft in the west and an incredibly strong Russia in the east, who will have been producing 60-70 IPCs per turn…
The only good thing Sea-Lion usually brings about is Italy taking Caïro and having a shot at more African territories. Too bad London has just been liberated and will start fighting Italians again…

Agree with you about the gamey and nonsensical trick to move slow units 2 spaces, using this… retreat trick. Humbug!
It should removed from the rules in any way possible.

@iceage36:

(…)My new? is I have heard people saying the u.s. can land in w. germany to disrupt…we are talking about turn 5 correct? because u.s. cant attack germany until turn 4 right?(…)

Depends on what happened in the Pacific (assuming Adolf will not DOW the USA…). USA could be in the war Turn 1 already.

@iceage36:

(…)I was attacked on turn 2 (…). I would say i lose about 6-8 original russian infantry who cant retreat back fast enough from the tanks (…).

Only if Germany attacks GE1 you cannot prevent loosing Russian INF (obviously). If Germany attacks GE2, then the only units in danger are those in Vyborg and Karelia.

As far as retreating goes, retreat them via Leningrad (RU1)->Archangelsk->Vologda->Moskou (RU4).
Keep a big Red Army stack next to them, to destroy any german ARM+MECH that came to kill this small northern army. Remember, killing German ARM+MECH while loosing INF/ART is in your advantage.

Most importantly; if you do not have to retreat, then do not! This requires some calculation, but so be it. Reread JDOW’s post.

If counterattacking/making a stand is a bridge too far for whatever reason, then just defend Moskou.
I understand that your Americans made Germany produce nothing that could threaten Russia from GE4 and on. Excellent. This means that Germany will have between 74 and 81 units total that can attack Moskou GE5, assuming the Luftwaffe is still 100% intact. Apart from the fact that Germany (Normandy/Southern France/Paris/West Germany/Berlin/Italy) is now very vulnerable to the Americans/UK due to heavy focus on Russia, we just look to the East Front.

If border wars did happen (meaning you counterattacked), Germany will have fewer units and so does Russia but to the Russian advantage because the Red Army will have gained another production round in this case Germans attacking Moskou GE6 instead. Just make sure German/Russian losses are roughly equal. No suicide attacks.

Without any border wars, Germany can have 74-81 units (depending on the ARM/MECH balance in their production) to attack Moskou GE5, maximum.
Russia can/should have anywhere between 81-89 units to defend Moskou, all by itself so without any RAF or Siberians. This is assuming Germany did not sacrifice some of their ARM/MECH for your INF and no border wars happend on your western borders first few turns. Just a plain and simple Russian retreat.

Now, assuming normal/average luck on the dice for both sides, the best Germany can get out of this (81units against 81units) is a pyrrhic victory, winning Moskou but loosing all his forces except for 1 ARM and 2 or 3 aircraft. A pyrrhic victory in Moskou means the game is lost to the axis, most of the time. Especially with the serious American threat you had built up in the Atlantic.

BUT… Stalin can call his ‘friend’ Churchill for help as well. Sending just 6FTR from the RAF will be the death of even this Pyrrhic victory for Germany. More RAF can be sent if necessary (mainly to ridicule any German/Japanese STR bombing Moskou during the German approach).