No Tac Bombers or Mech Infantry on the new battle board/strip? And Aircraft Carriers still showing as Attack at 1 :? Strewth. Guess I will have to make my own.
I never use the battleboard….am I in the minority on this?
I only use the battleboards for big or sometimes just important battles (for the fun of it, and to keep track of losses). I haven’t played FTF with any post-AAR versions, but I imagine I’d do the same with their battleboards as well.
If the UK sends an AA gun to China…it would put them at war with Japan…correct.?
You could do this as early as UK2 without too much downside. I’d think Japan will be attacking or disrupting convoys by J3 anyway.
Declaring war on J1 gives the US +40 on US2 as well, which means +60 IPCs over the course of two turns compared to the 77 IPCs of dead Allied units. And you have to remember that the Allies on average take down a few infantry and most of a fighter, and Japan gets +5 on J2 (J3 is pretty much a foregone conclusion).
US: 60 + 12 (2inf .66ftr) = 72
J: 77 + 6 (2inf Kwa) + 10 swing (Kwa/Phi on J2) = 93
Even on a pure TUV-vs-IPC scale, Japan only comes out about 20 ahead.
I would argue (looking at the sub-shot rule in djensen’s preview) that subs only shoot if it’s subs defending vs transports moving through. Plus, I think you can move through a battle, because I’ve seen mention of how if a naval unit decides to kill a transport or sub, it has to stop. This indicates that other units move on through. Someone just please bootleg the AAP40 rulebook to stop this insanity; because we evidently can’t help ourselves.
Like kcdzim said, getting +1 on attack for an extra IPC is huge for air units. Because only fighters can scramble (and since compared to tacs they get a +1 on defense, for 1 less IPC) they are a much stronger purchase for defensive fights.
Tacs however are best for launching non-SBR attacks. So they’re not the greatest purchase, but they certainly have their place.
So the USA collects 50 from Western USA on it’s 3rd turn no matter what, right? So there no disadvantage to anyone declaring war after USA’s second turn, right?
It seems there are all sorts of rules coming out of the woodwork, but so far the only disadvantage would be that the U.S. can attack Japan on US3. Though I’m not sure if this would amount to any sort of threat that early in the game.
Is NZ missing its infantry unit?
The U.S. can stop this by throwing ships in Japan’s way. Japan will be unable to move forward without attacking the U.S., and an attack means air raid sirens and 50 IPCs for 'Merica.
I’m assuming that if Japan takes New Hebrides before J4, that’s also a declaration of war on the Allies?
Here’s what I’m seeing:
Japan 5inf, 2art, 1arm 1aa 2bmb 5ftr 4tct 1AB 1NB 1IC
Caroline Islands 1inf 1aa 1AB 1NB
Formosa 1ftr
Iwo Jima 1inf
Jehol 2inf 1art
Kiangsi 1inf 1art
Korea 1inf
Kwangsi 3inf 1art
Manchuria 4inf 1mec 1art 1aa 1bmb 3ftr 2tct
Okinawa 1inf 1ftr
Palau 1inf [is this Paulau Island?]
Kiangsu 1inf 1ftr 1tct 1bmb
Shantung 1inf
Siam 2inf
SZ6 1sub 2des 2ac (2tct 2ftr) 1cru 1bb 2trn
SZ19 1sub 1des 1cru
SZ33 1des 1ac (1tct 1ftr) 1bb 1trn
A&A.org: http://www.axisandallies.org/node/384
Boardgamegeek.com: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/616532
Japan is the only chart that can’t be blown up on BGG. Does anyone have a J setup that is more legible?
It’s not faster to pick up a copy from your area gaming store? I remember getting AAR very soon after it came out – maybe within days. I certainly didn’t have to wait a week or two weeks.
I am not answering what is obviously a question for Razor, but I figure that someone chiming in his behalf will give a little more credence to what will almost assuredly be a tongue-in-cheek response from him. In my experience, Razor likes to have some fun with his posts. Either that, or English is not his native language. Is it, Razor? Though, I’m not sure I will believe what you tell me :-D.
I agree that basically you want to strat bomb if you can afford to at least send about twice as many escorts as there will be interceptors – and if you want to trade fighters for fighters. And yes, the old guideline seems to apply: If there’s a real battle, you probably want to be in that instead.
However, a bomber only does an average of 3.5 damage if it always survives the AA gun. You have to factor in the odds of a bomber doing 0 damage because it was shot down. Plus, what kind of factory/base are being bombed? How much damage do they have? What are their maximum damage amounts?
I think there are a lot more numbers to be crunched before we can say how much these new rules have changed the effectiveness of SBRs.
According to the A&A.org previews, naval and air bases can be built anywhere.
I think Hainin is a fine choice because, like you said, it’s midway between Japan and India (if one uses naval bases). Also, I think using an island airbase as a “super carrier” will be a very popular tactic because it makes a sea zone nearly impregnable.
I was looking at Java as a base that could be used to pressure both India and Australia (with multiple sea routes to each) but the Hainan setup also allows or landings in Northern Territory. The downside to Hainan is that the Allies can put down blockers to prevent rushes into India/Australia, but I think the plan will be to take the Dutch islands and then push toward a city. Maybe a Java AB and/or NB would be of use at that point.
I’m not sure how this initial strategy would play out on J3 (I’m guessing that’s when you would finally attack Australia) but it seems that Japan can reliably garrison sz54 on J1 by moving down its Caroline Islands fleet. This blocks Australia’s direct route to Dutch New Guinea (the transport can still go west around Australia) and pressures all three of Australia’s main centers.
The Aussie counterattack is: 1sub 1des 4ftr vs 1des 1tct 1ftr 1ac 1bb, but I’m not sure it’s one Australia would attempt. Even if Japan has to keep its destroyer around (to prevent Aus from getting a pop-shot at a tilted capital ship), they still can prevent the Aus destroyer from surviving. And once Australia attacks the Caroline fleet, Japan is free to land in Queensland – and possibly even Sydney – on J2 without declaring war on the U.S.
Round two of the battle looks like this, and only the 11 pips vs 12 result is a real danger (the forward slashes mean a capital ship is tilted):
42% = 1des 2ftr vs 1des 1ftr 1ac/ 1bb/ (8 pips vs 12)
42% = 1des 3ftr vs 1des 1ftr 1ac/ 1bb/ (11 vs 12)
8% = 1des 2ftr vs 1des 1tct 1ftr 1ac/ 1bb/ (8 vs 15)
8% = 1des 3ftr vs 1des 1tct 1ftr 1ac/ 1bb/ (11 vs 15)
But even with that bad result, Japan is likely to come to the final round with 1bb vs 1des. And if everything dies, Japan loses 65 in TUV and Australia loses 54 – but Japan still wins, because the goal is to keep sz54 open so that more Caroline Island reinforcements can come in on J2 (and matched with a J1 build of 3trn, I believe this is death for the Australians).
There are a few fuzzy rules that would affect this: 1) If an already-hit carrier is taken as a hit again, are the aircraft onboard also taken as casualties? Or is it just that they have to find another carrier to land on. 2) Does anyone know if there are capitals in this game? If Sydney is taken, do the Australians hand over all of their money?
Also, since I can’t quite run a full calc (I did some one-round checks with frood), my math may be a bit off, but if the worst result leads to victory, then we can say that the other round one results will just lead to more of a Japanese fleet presence.
Addendum: Since ANZAC does not start with ships in sz63, Japan should probably go there and leave the destroyer in sz54; it isn’t crucial to the fleet’s survival, since sz63 is out of range of the Aussie sub. This move prevents the Hawaiian transport from entering sz63 on US1 (US can’t attack Japan unless at war, right?) and prevents US2-3 reinforcements while still blocking sz54.
Black_Elk, as one of the creators would you be able to help me with some questions?
Are fleets supposed to be able to move through enemy fleets? I don’t remember this being the case in Revised (or really any version of A&A – except that subs can, in some versions), but I wanted to make sure, because I know Great War thinks outside the box.
I’ve heard that very large bids are necessary in order to give the Allies a fighting chance. Do you know what a good bid is and if there are other stipulations? I just read over at TripleA War Club that bidding 100 isn’t out of line, but with a bid that big I’d think the Allies could squeeze out the Ottomans or powerfully exploit other weak points.
Let us know if you find the other link or the pieces add up. Otherwise, sure, I’ll count out my pieces.
Testguy, have you checked out TripleA? There is almost always someone on the server. And it’s mostly Revised games. Very nice software (only minor rules mistakes) and there’s an edit function if you mess up and your opponent is forgiving.
Here’s Caspian Sub’s first policy paper (with some minor formatting to make it more forum-friendly).
It basically says that normally (or even most or all of the time) Japan can smash an India IC on J3. I guess I’ve never looked at possible cases when this India smash plan wouldn’t work, but I always figured that even a nightmare J1 scenario would just mean the India IC goes down not as badly on J3 or is smashed J4 instead.
Isn’t an India IC a bad idea 99% of the time – even if coupled with something nuts like a SAf or Aus IC?
Thank You, Come Again: The India Complex
Caspian Sub PP01, 1v0
Paper Topic
Should the UK build a complex in India as an opening strategy?
Paper Summary
Building a complex in India is a bad idea for the UK. Japan should overwhelm it even if the Soviets & Americans help. If the Soviets send a great deal to India it may take longer to fall, but it will be extremely costly for all the Allies as well as leaving Moscow to be taken by Germany.
UK’s best plan:
Rnd 1 – Build India complex, move all available units to or toward India.
Rnd 2 – Build 3ftr in India and complete moving units.
Rnd 3 – Build 3ftr in India.
Japan’s counter:
Rnd 1 – Attack China with 2inf and aircraft, don’t lose aircraft. Kill Pearl Harbor. Kill UK transports. Move everything else toward Frindo. Build 3tra 1tnk.
Rnd 2 – Move all toward Frindo. Pearl Harbor attack force moves to New Guinea. Build 2bmr.
Rnd 3 – Attack India with all available units including battleships.
Details
First, let’s make a list of all the units that could be in India by the end of rnd 3. We’ll only do Brits and Japs to start. The available units from every possible source are:
3inf 1ftr 1gun – India
1inf - Persia
1inf - Trans-Jordan
1inf 1tnk 1ftr - Anglo
1inf - South Africa
2inf - Australia
3ftr - built rnd 2 in India
3ftr - built rnd 3 in India
2ftr 1bmr - London
For a grand total of:
9inf 1tnk 10ftr 1bmr 1gun
Japan can bring a max at the start of rnd 3 of:
2inf - Frindo
3inf - Kwangtung
2inf - Manch
4inf 1art 1tnk - Japan
1tnk - Japan (built rnd 1)
6ftr 1bmr from various places
2inf Philippines
2inf East Indies
2btl
2bmr Japan (built rnd 2)
For a grand total of:
15inf 1art 2tnk 6ftr 3bmr 2btl
Running that through the dice simulator yields a 70% victory for Japan rnd 3. But it’s actually much worse than that. I’ve listed the maximum numbers of units; the real numbers for the UK are very different.
In most games, the UK will be down the troops from Anglo, Australia, and South Africa, and the fighters will be tied up in Europe or dead. For Japan, the 2inf in Manchuria will likely attack China rnd 1, but little else would change. That yields:
UK
5inf 7ftr 1bmr 1gun
Japan
13inf 1art 2tnk 6ftr 3bmr 2btl
The result of that matchup is a 99.8% win for Japan with plenty of ground troops alive. Certainly the UK cannot battle Japan unless it has a lot of help.
FAQ
1. Why did you scope this analysis for a round 3 attack by Japan?
2. How does the scenario look with Japanese complexes instead of transports?
3. What about help from the Russians?
The question revolves around how much help they can send. To put the battle in the UK’s favor the Soviets would need to send 9inf 1ftr. Can Russia afford to send those troops? Only if the Germans become a peace-loving nation.
4. What help can the Yanks bring?
Based on geography, only the US bomber and 1ftr are certain to be alive to help. If the Pearl Harbor carrier survives in the north east corner of Australia at the end of round 1, then a maximum of 3 US fighters could make it to India. But that is unlikely; the likely help is 1ftr 1bmr. Those units certainly help, but not enough.
5. Can Germany help Japan?
Currently, many games I play see two transports in the Med at the end of Germany’s first turn. If the complex in India goes up on rnd 1, Germany can take Trans-Jordan rnd 2 and then move the fleet through the Suez rnd 3 and kill a couple of units to soften India up for Japan. That strafe can certainly become a factor. Another option is for Germany to drop 4 or 5 transports in the Baltic. That would likely take the UK’s mind off of India.
6. What about the Russians in the north coming from Buryatia?
Japan can ignore them. Rnd 3 they’ll be in Kwangtung, harming no one. On rnd 4 they can attack Frindo, but they won’t have much offense so they’re not much of a threat. If the Allies do not expend aircraft and Russian troops to defend India, then Japan will be able to kill the Russians rnd 2 or 3 because they will have extra force available.
7. What about a US complex?
As mentioned in the first question, a US complex is built rnd 1, produces units rnd 2, and the units move rnd 3, after the India complex has fallen. Tanks could not even liberate the complex rnd 3; the complex is 3 spaces away.
8. What about the mighty US navy?
As mentioned in the first question, the fleet can’t do much until rnd 3 in the best of circumstances, and that is also after India has fallen. Due to geography and turn order, Japan should be ahead of the United States in naval building at least through rnd 4. See the Caspian Sub Policy Paper on the ‘Crazy Straw’ for this analysis.
9. What if the UK builds something other than fighters?
Then the UK gets beat up much worse.
10. What if the UK builds a second complex to help India?
What complex can protect India in rnd 3? Anglo probably won’t belong to the UK rnd 1. A South African complex couldn’t send anything to India except bombers by turn 3. A complex built rnd 1 in Australia could fly 2 planes to India on rnd 3, but you would be spending 15 IPCs to build 20 IPCs of defense which could be destroyed before the fighters even fly to India. And how would the UK have so much money to build two complexes and a great India defense by rnd 3?
Wrap Up
It is possible to coordinate all 3 allies to help the UK defend India, but a good Japan player will still crack it. More importantly, Germany will be hosting Oktober Fest in Moscow while the other Allies defend Bombay. Look for a different strategy.
Version and Unresolved Issues
1v0 Date: 2/21/05
Unresolved issues: