Posts made by Hobbes

@AxisBrutality:

1. You mentioned you would build 2 FTR on UK1 to sink a German fleet in the Baltic. I told you I would consider building a Carrier + 1 ART + 8 INF on G2 turn. And I would land 2 German FTR on that Carrier. You must understand that 4 UK FTR and 1 BMR cannot sink German BB, 2 FTR, Carrier and Cruiser. Your entire UK Air Force would be wiped out. There would NOT be any planes going to Moscow OR India for that matter.

Carrier is definitely a wiser choice but you still have the same problem as Germany. UK builds 2 FTRs plus units for India on UK1. Then on UK2 it builds 2 more fighters and it now has 6 FTRs and 1 BMR against the German Baltic fleet. Germany has to build more naval on G3 else its carrier, fighters, cruiser and transport are dead on UK3. And the leftover Allied fighters can still go to Moscow after they sink the German fleet. And the more Germany spends the more it is wasting IPCs on the water while Moscow is getting stronger, not weaker.

When you build 2 UK FTR, then you only have 11 IPC left. Your UK BB is there alone with a 1 Russian sub. Try to guess what happens to that UK BB and Russian sub when it is G2 turn ?

I’m already used to that UK fleet being blasted away on the majority of the hundreds of games I’ve played Spring 1942 1st Ed. - apparently that’s news to you though…

I mean, don’t you plan on expanding a UK fleet outside London?

Because that UK BB is dead there all alone when G2 turn starts. Or else you have to move UK BB away to Canada. Either way, your strategy does not bring many UK INFs or ART against Germany, on contrary, it brings basically ZERO units against Germany on UK1 turn, same for UK2 if you buy 2 FTR and just sitting there with 11 IPC left which barely gives you a DD to buy. Again, no units on India either if you buy DD to give some more protection to your UK BB on London.

Apparently the world class player hasn’t figured it out yet… building ANY British ships on UK waters on UK1 will usually suicide and a waste because of the Germans power and the new SZ dispositions.
The US can’t reach and reinforce an UK fleet with its starting ships so the UK can only place 1 carrier and 2 destroyers, together with the Soviet sub and 2 FTRs. The Germans should have 2-3 subs, plus most airforce in range, so any naval buys on UK1 are a waste if the Germans can reach and sink them.

The best UK1 buy on that situation actually 2 FTRs, 2 INF, 1 ART, put the fighters on UK and the ground units to India.

Yes, of course, if you use 2 UK FTR AND 1 BMR then you can sink that German BB on SZ17. However, again, you have to take FTR causalties for the UK Air Force, which according to your strategy would be now basically wiped out by UK2 turn.

Nope. 1 fighter from the fleet off India, the other from Egypt, remaining units (bomber) land on Egypt. That retains the 4 FTRs on the UK to use against the Baltic fleet.

And having Japanese Fleet outside E.Indies 100% safe is a BIG advantage for Japan, which is now according to this 2012 version in harder position that earlier. But with that fleet alive outside East Indies, options for Japan are HUGE. They can wipe out entire U.S. force across all 3 Chinese territories + take a Russian territory too.Not to mention securing FIC to even bigger extend, which you preferred just to trade off with the UK. I on the other hand don’t want UK even near FIC.

Yupiii… the East Indies fleet is safe… wait, didn’t that happened already on 1st Edition and the Axis could still lose the game?

@AxisBrutality:

Hi again, I don’t play online, I play directly on the board, that’s the most fun.

Completely agree with board being more fun. However board does not allow you usually to play it almost daily like online does.

Second of all, we are not talking about previous versions here, do we? We are talking about 2012 - 2nd edition.

I’ve played this since mid-90s.  The game from 1984 until 2004 when the 2004 version came out which I played until 2009 until the 2009 - version came out, and now I will not play 2009 - version anymore because 2012 - version is out.

Yes, I am. Not Classic, since it was completely reworked in Revised, but the basic strats of Revised and Spring 1942, 1st. Ed. have remained the same. And one of them is that Germany naval builds usually work against them by an experienced Allied player. Allied UK player builds fighters to sink the German fleet. Then fighters fly off to Moscow and/or India to help defend it after sinking the German fleet.

Win-win situation for Allies: they destroy a significant portion of the German forces and can still use those fighters on Asia or Europe.

If you look at the map and sea zones, they change each time, same goes for the setup. Therefore it is very unwise to use the same strategy for “all the versions”. I’ve never used the same strategy for them all, because it is impossible.

Actually the basic map/setup from Revised to Spring 1942 1st Ed. to the new 2nd Edition has pretty much remained the same (the major differences are the disposition of the SZs bordering the UK and on SW Pacific).

As I mentioned, with this version, German fighters can’t attack Egypt, however, I can attack Syria with a bomber, I can take out UK DD there too with German BB. Syria belongs to Germany after G1 turn.

And you’ll lose the German fleet on SZ17 to a combined UK1 attack of 2 FTRs, 1 BMR. And lose Syria as well if the UK so desires. Don’t assume that the UK needs to attack the East Indies fleet - with only 63% odds it is a decision that needs to be weighted carefully.

2 German subs take out UK Transport and DD very easy outside Canada, no losses for Germany at all.  3 German FTR sinks UK Cruiser on Gibraltar, and German risks losing only 1 FTR.

This means Germany has wiped out 42 IPC on UK, while Germany risks at it’s worst losing 1 INF in Syria, and 1 FTR outside Gibraltar.

No UK bomber can threat German BB outside Syria because there are 5 spaces to get there from London. It’s simple as that. The bomber would have to take suicide with the UK FTR from Egypt in order to attack German BB outside Syria. Not exactly a good option if you plan on attacking Japanese fleet outside E.Indies, is it :)

As mentioned above, why should the UK risk attacking East Indies with 60% something odds when it can sink the German fleet and secure Africa for the Allies? Just the starting IC on India gives it a lot more options to slow down Japan on Asia.

And now that tanks cost 6 IPC, instead of 5, we need to be more careful with losing them. Russia should never engage in a battle in the beginning where they lose artilleries and now more expencive tanks for basically nothing. In 2009 version at least, I knew why it was good to attack Ukraine, it’s to prevend German fighter assisting in Egypt. Now, that is not a case anymore, and tanks cost 6.

Germany has increased it’s IPC to 41 now, Russia on the other hand is sitting with a factory on Karelia which is hard to defend, fewer men and still only 24 IPC to buy with. Germany on the other hand got the Cruiser now in the Baltic, and another Sub in the Atlantic, and more INF on Morocco, and basically sitting there with at least 9 Armor, a huge stack of men and artilleries and at least 5 FTR + bomber + 2 battleships when I buy one.

You also have to look at what prosentages of the IPC a country loses. When Russia loses 40 IPC, and can build for 24 that is 167% of Russias income. Germany losing 51 on the other hand is only 126% of Germany’s income. You need to take all these factors I have mentioned into consideration.

Yeah, look at the numbers: Soviets build 24 worth of ground units. Germany buys a Battleship and only builds 21 worth of ground units, of which 7-9 will be sent to Africa, so that leaves only 12-14 in reinforcements against  the Soviets’ 24.

Again, keep using naval builds for Germany if you ever play me - and I’d advise to try playing online, maybe you’ll pick up a few tricks about Revised/AA42 1st Ed the games that way ;)

@AxisBrutality:

Oc course UK can buy 2 FTR, great. And what are they going to buy on land in either London or India? Any naval units? Oh, I guess not. LOL, 2 FTS + 11 IPC, that’s is NOT a good buy.

If you read what I wrote, I can choose to place BB in either Italy OR Baltic Sea, it depends on the Russian assault. But either way, UK cannot sink German fleet.

If UK buy 2 FTR, fine, then UK will have 4 FTR and 1 bomber. But none naval units added, and a very few ground units added. Germany can on it’s second turn, with my strategy taking Syria, and most likely saving E.Indies, because Egypt and Syria will be under threat ( strange that no-one commented that )

Germany can again expand the fleet with a carrier, and still have 28 IPC to buy units for which is the same amount Russia had for it’s 2nd turn, so that is a equal match. I could buy 8 INF and 1 ART.

Fighters plans can land on a German carrier right away, so the German fleet in the Baltic would be safe anyway, UK will not risk their 4 FTR and 1 Bomber against German carrier, 2 FTR, Cruiser and Battleship, and the UK will not will that fight either.

I don’t need to mention what happens with a UK Battleship standing there alone outside UK with 1 Russian sub, lol facing at least 2 German Sub in the North Sea and most of the German Air Force.

If you want to ignore the fact that the previous versions of the game have been played for decades and German naval buys are never an optimal move on any of them, then be my guest.

And if we ever play online and I’m Allies, please play like this as Germany - I love when noobs go for German naval builds on 1st Edition ;)

@AxisBrutality:

Again, you are not arguing why it is a “bad” idea, you just say it’s a bad idea. A new battleship gives BOOST to a exsisting Cruiser in the Baltic Sea OR another Battleship in the Mediterranian Sea. That gives Germany 2 Battleships to attack shores with Egypt OR Syria OR Caucasus because a enemy unit can fire. The same thing if the Battleship is places in the Baltic Sea, both can fire all the time at Karelia and threaten UK all the time. A destroyer which you are suggesting, CAN’T do that and does not secure German fleet. We are talking about a difference of 8 IPC between your and mine suggestion, and I don’t think 1 Armor + 2 saved IPC for next round will do a “massive” difference on the eastern front at all, but on the Seas - a HUGE difference!

OK, Germany buys a Battleship and places it on the Baltic. UK buys 2 fighters on UK1. Germany either buys more ships (at the expense of the Eastern front) or its initial investment will be sunk. The same logic applies to any naval builds to the Med - the Allies only need to buy planes and those ships will be sunk quickly.

Who wins? The UK and the US since all the German money going to boats will be eventually destroyed and they are taking down Germany without having to land units, and the Soviets because those German land units can’t be used directly against them, unlike infantry, artillery and armor.

But feel free to buy naval units for Germany… the Allies enjoy the help :)

@AxisBrutality:

Have to agree with Hobbes here…and if your German player intends on buying a BB, its even MORE reason to take Ukraine….I see where the BB can help, but that’s 20 IPCs that could go to destroying Russia…you’re going to end up with a stack of Russians (R2) that you’ll never be able to eliminate in time.

–----------------------------------------------------------
Point is, I don’t need to get rid of Russians, the only thing Germany has to do is to take Karelia, keep it, secure it’s northern flank and threaten UK. OR have total control in Libya, Algeria, Egypt and Syria, which is essential, and I can still threaten Caucasus.

1 BB means Germany having 2 BB in Italy or 1 Cruiser and 1 BB in the Baltic Sea, so another Battleship sthrengtens already existing Naval Forces of Germany in either Italy or the Baltic Sea, which gives Germany either way a potent Naval force with 2 transports which means they can send 4 units whereever they want to with all the air power and battleships all along. That is a potent naval force.

Too bad Moscow can’t be reached by sea, eh? ;)

I can agree on taking out Belarus instead of Finland of course, so that is no problem. But even 2 Armor lost in Ukraine, means 50% or all Russian armor LOST. � That German fighter there can’t be used against Egypt or Syria anyway, because Germany can take out Syria easy with the strategy I suggested. It is extremely easy for Germany to take Ukraine back, risking losing 2 INF at most. 50% of Russian armor which is 2 out of 4 tanks is wiped out and the same goes for 1 Russian ART which is 33% or Russian artilleries since they start with total of 3, which degrades Russian offencive capability.

If you attack West Russia and Ukraine, you’ll kill 6 INF (plus 1 INF lost to kill the Soviet armor on Ukraine on G1), 2 ART, 2 ARM and 1 FTR at the average expense of 6 INF, 1 ART and 3 ARM. That’s 51 IPC of German hardware against 40 of Soviet hardware.

As the Soviets you usually will never have another opportunity to deal so much damage to Germany. Plus you’re securing both W Russia and Caucasus and prevent a Karelia stack.

@AxisBrutality:

I will have to disagree, this is only true in the case of Japan moving ALL ships to Japan, of course, leaving FIC totally “naked” to the UK invasion, which I don’t think is a good idea at all.

With an Alaskan IC? I’d say that it may be the move to make for Japan, to threaten it and force the US to defend it or abandon it. Let the UK fiddle around FIC, Japan can always swing back to retake it.

Overall unit additions/changes between both editions
Soviet Union +12 total IPC gain (+2 from new armor/AA cost)

• +1 IC (Karelia)
• 1 INF upgraded to ART (Karelia)
• -2 INF (Asia)
  Germany +41 total IPC gain (+7 armor/AA cost), +1 income gain
• +1 SUB (SZ8)
• +4 INF (Morocco, Baltic States, Finland)
• +2 ARM (Baltic States, Northwestern Europe)
• 1 destroyer upgraded to cruiser (SZ5)
  UK +43 total IPC gain  (+1 from armor/AA cost), +1 income gain
• +1 IC (India)
• +1 INF (Burma)
• +1 ART (Egypt)
• +1 DD (SZ10 - Atlantic)
• +1 CA (SZ39 - Pacific)
  Japan +40 IPC total IPC gain
• 2 DD (SZs 60 and 61)
• 4 INF (Manchuria, Kwangtung, Kwangsu)
• 3 ART (French Indochina, Philippine Islands, Kwangtung)
  US +15 IPC total IPC gain (-1 armor/AA cost)
• 2 DD (SZ53 and 56 - Pacific)

Allies: +62 IPC, 6 additional units (-1 Soviet, 5 UK, 2 US)
Allies, total (1st Edition): 644 IPC, 107 units
Allies, total (2nd Edition): 714 IPC, 113 units
Axis: +81 IPC, 16 additional units (7 German, 9 Japanese)
Axis, total (1st Edition): 586 IPC, 98 units
Axis, total (2nd Edition): 667 IPC, 114 units

Map Differences

Europe/Africa

• Karelia now starts with an Industrial Complex and increased importance.
• Eastern Europe split to Baltic States and Poland (2 IPC each) - Poland is the best location for German armor since it allows to threaten both Karelia and Caucasus.
• Ukraine’s value reduced to 2 IPC - some map changes like splitting Southern Europe, also make Ukraine less important.
• West Russia is still the pivot point for Russia to stop the Germans. However both advancing routes (Karelia and Ukraine) are more separated than before.
• Southern Europe split between Italy (3 IPC) and S. Europe (2 IPC)
• Norway split into Norway (2 IPC) and Finland (1 IPC)
• Northwestern Europe added (2 IPC)
• Balkans renamed Bulgaria Romania
• Gibraltar can be invaded from both Atlantic and Mediterranean
• Morocco added (1 IPC) - road bump on Africa for Allies
• Sudan added (0 IPC) - road bump on Africa for Axis

Atlantic/Med

• UK now only has 3 SZs bordering it, all in naval/fighter range of SZ5 (Baltic) and NW Europe/France.
• The distance between E. Canada and Morocco is now 2 SZs.
• The distance between E. US and UK is now 3 SZs. Now the US can’t reinforce the UK directly from E. US.
• SZ16 (Black Sea) now doesn’t border SZ17 (Egypt).
• France/NW Europe/Norway can only be directly invaded from North America from E. Canada.
• German naval presence increased with an additional sub in SZ9 and the destroyer on SZ5 upgraded to a cruiser.
• UK gains a destroyer to join the transport on SZ10 off E. Canada

Asia

• India starts with an IC.
• Evenki now borders Archangel and a new territory, Vologda (worth 2 IPC).
• Chinese territories increased to 4 - better chance of the US fighter surviving J1.
• Japanese mainland territories increased to 4, now Manchuria is the best Asian land option for IC. Despite the changes, it still takes 4 rounds (the same as 1st Ed.) for Japanese units to reach Russia through Chinese territories, although the other routes now take longer.
• Quickest route to Russia is now Kwangtung - Szechwan - Kazakh - Russia (4 territories).
• 2nd Chinese Route: Manchuria - Anhwei - Sinkiang - Novosibirsk  - Russia (5 territories).
• Northern Route: Buryatia - Yakut - Evenki - Novosibirsk - Russia (5 territories, used to be 4).
• Indian Route: (FIC) - Burma - India - Persia - Kazakh - Russia (5/6 territories).
• Japan starts with 6 more ground units on Asia, the Allies with only 1 extra (-3 Soviet, +2 US, +2 UK).
• However, the additional territories and the Indian IC will add more time required for Japan to secure the beforementioned territories.

Pacific

• The SZs around Australia/DEI/New Guinea have been redesigned. East Indies can’t be reached from the Solomon SZ but the UK fleet off Australia can now reach East Indies.
• Iwo Jima and a corresponding SZ have been added, which now prevents SZ60 to be reached from the Solomons SZ.
• East Indies cannot be reached from the Solomon Islands SZ also.
• US and Japan both gain 2 extra destroyers, the UK gains 1 additional cruiser off Australia.

Overall strategic outlook changes

Soviet Union

• Faces a stronger German presence (additional 3 INF and 2 ARM) and starts with less 1 unit.
• Needs to deny use of Karelia IC to Germany (can merely trade it with G).
• Has more time to deal with Japanese pressure due to more territories, specially if Allies go KJF but has less units to do so.
• On a KJF the question is when it falls to Germany.
• Has the option to sending the Moscow fighter to Egypt to prevent its fall on G1.

Germany

• Stronger army on the Eastern Front.
• With the additional sub and new SZ can threaten and sink nearly all of the Allied fleet on Atlantic/Med on G1.
• The map changes allow for it to contest/deny the Atlantic longer against the Allies.
• Germany is affected the most by the new increased armor cost.
• Karelia is now a bigger step towards control of Europe.
• The odds of the G1 attack on Egypt are now lower (74%).
• When facing a KJF Germany needs to pressure Russia and Africa as quickly as possible.

UK

• Atlantic more vulnerable to German air/naval - more time required for Allied landings.
• Will need to either protect/delay conquest of the Indian IC or use it on a KJF.
• Can attack East Indies fleet to try KJF but at 66% odds.
• On the Indian Ocean UK either swings to hit Japan or to deny Africa to Germany or splits to hit both. The choice is either SZ37 or Egypt/SZ17, SZ61 and possibly New Guinea.

Japan

• Defense or offense? Does UK hit SZ37 and sink it and the Allies go KJF or it’s back to the Moscow race?.
• Regardless of KJF, the main target for Japan is to press/conquer the Indian IC.
• Two key VCs are located on Asia, Honolulu and Calcutta - conquer both and keep control of Leningrad and the Axis win.
• On the other hand, lose Manila and Shanghai for the Allies and if the Russians keep control of Karelia, then the Allies win.

US

• It now takes 3 fleets to threaten Germany and 2 fleets just to keep a steady flow of troops to France/Morocco/Finland, if the US goes KGF.
• It also takes longer to reach Japan/East Indies due to the redesigned Pacific SZs, if the US goes KJF.

Conclusions

• After 3 games the setup seems to favor the Axis due to the Allies steeper learning curve. It feels balanced but it’s too early to say.
• The new edition is designed to increase the odds for a KJF, but a) most players will have no idea of how to perform/stop it due to lack of experience; b) for best odds it depends on the Germans not attacking on Egypt on G1 (also there’s a 25% chance it wiil not succeed) so that the UK fighter on Egypt can attack SZ37 on UK1 (2/3 odds of winning)
• The starting Indian and Karelian IC can be a distinct advantage for both sides - together with the new VC, Honolulu they switch the logic less from conquering Moscow to other solutions for a 9 VC win.
• The addition of the Soviet FTR to Egypt on R1 secures the SZ37 attack but it isn’t clear yet how much essential that move is for the Allies, or if they should have Germany try its luck on Egypt.

@AxisBrutality:

LOL, maybe :) Ok, I’ll try to write it all over again, but not just in one post.

Russia . Western Russia should be taken out, however I would not take out Ukraine, because Russian armor risks of getting totally annihilated when it is G1 turn. Therefore Finland would be good to take out.

I still say Ukraine is a good option if you only send 2 ARM because of how it protects both West Russia and Caucasus on G1. Otherwise you’ll risk losing either one if you attack Finland.

Why I say this? If you send 9 INF, 2 ART and 4 ARM you should lose at least 2 INF, leaving 13 units to defend W Russia, plus any AAs. Germany can send 6 INF, 1 ART, 4 ARM and the entire Luftwaffe to crush West Russia (+90% odds, and the new AA rules reduce the risk), while retaking Finland and securing Karelia for later production.

Or, in case the Soviets get lucky and don’t lose units, Germany takes Caucasus, since Russia can only leave 7 units at the most and Germany can attack with 9 ground units (with the transport), plus planes.

Russia can’t secure both Caucasus and West Russia on G1 with a Finland/West Russia attack on R1. It needs to attack either Belorussia (which also makes more sense to earn 2 IPC rather than 1 IPC on Finland) to limit the danger to West Russia/Caucasus on G1 or take out Ukraine completely on R1.

@Gargantua:

Actually if you look at ALL the Axis and Allies games…

they all kind of have this place called Berlin, and Moscow/Russia…

Yup. Took me a while to find them on the Battle of Bulge map though. The Germans had to liberate Antwerp, then switch back to defeat the Soviet attack on Berlin and make a victorious push towards Moscow by round 129… that was quite a game.

@JamesG:

Note that the Ukraine fighter can not reach Egypt so killing it, or not, on R1 has no real impact on a G1 Egypt attack.

I’m not saying if an R1 Ukraine attack is bad or good, but hurting G1’s Egypt chances is not a factor in that analysis.

Thanks, I see it now, neither the fighter in Bul-Rom can reach it then.

It that case it becomes a question of stacking Egypt as mentioned above and the UK will have to choose to either stop the Germans on Africa or hit Japan.

The Japanese fleet off East Indies looks too tempting… but only has 64% odds

@Mallery29:

@Hobbes:

@Imperious:

Attack Ukraine with 3 INF, 1 ART, 2 ARM and 2 FTR

It’s almost even and not good for Soviets. They can’t trade pieces if they are down at start.

That’s 83% odds for Soviets, add a 3rd tank and you get 96% odds. While on West Russia you still got 100% odds and lose only 3 INF.
The optimal R1 move for 2nd Edition is still the same as 1st Edition since the Eastern front hasn’t really changed other than the addition of the Baltic States - hit the Germans hard on Ukraine and West Russia to eliminate a large portion of their forces and prevent a Karelia stack.
Germany then takes Karelia and retakes Ukraine, attacks and sinks most/entire UK fleet on the Atlantic and Med, takes Gibraltar and mass its forces on Libya. Or, if the Ukraine fighter survived try to kill Egypt on G1 with 95% odds.

Ukraine needs to go, so I could see the 4inf/2arm buy now, but I’m curious what your G1 buy would be, because I’m not sold on the CV/inf buy as mentioned by IL….I’m not saying my 5inf,2art,1arm,1Bomber is a solid buy, but by taking Gib like you said (and I agree with that), is that UK can only muster a Bomber and DD against you, and may still not be able to take out the transport, so Egypt falling G2 is still on track (I guess the Germans could use a DD instead of the 2 art on G1, so you have a DD/BB protecting the transport…odds shift significantly in Germany’s favor in the Med.  I just see the CV as a waste of taxpayers’ dollars

The possibilities I can think of for the German buy are the standard Spring 1942 1st ed. ones:

• 1 bomber, as you mentioned, although it won’t really be necessary since it looks that the UK can be stopped from any naval builds on UK1 by the threat of sinking them.
• 4 ARM, 4 INF, 1 ART - if Germany wants to do a Karelia/Ukraine stack on G2.

@Imperious:

That’s 83% odds for Soviets, add a 3rd tank and you get 96% odds.

The Germans got 15 and the soviets attacking with 18, which costs the soviets alot more because the attack is so even. Risking the 3rd tank just gets all tanks killed and a serious reduction in soviet potency.

Germans lose 29 IPC and the ability to threaten Egypt on G1. Soviets lose 18 IPC on average with 2 armor still remaining. And if you don’t destroy the German stack on Ukraine then any Soviet forces on West Russia are left dead for a German counter attack on West Russia, a retake of Finland and the Germans conquering and securing Karelia on G1.

@Imperious:

Attack Ukraine with 3 INF, 1 ART, 2 ARM and 2 FTR

It’s almost even and not good for Soviets. They can’t trade pieces if they are down at start.

That’s 83% odds for Soviets, add a 3rd tank and you get 96% odds. While on West Russia you still got 100% odds and lose only 3 INF.

The optimal R1 move for 2nd Edition is still the same as 1st Edition since the Eastern front hasn’t really changed other than the addition of the Baltic States - hit the Germans hard on Ukraine and West Russia to eliminate a large portion of their forces and prevent a Karelia stack.

Germany then takes Karelia and retakes Ukraine, attacks and sinks most/entire UK fleet on the Atlantic and Med, takes Gibraltar and mass its forces on Libya. Or, if the Ukraine fighter survived try to kill Egypt on G1 with 95% odds.

Soviet Union: buy 4 INF, 2 ARM

Attack West Russia with 9 INF, 2 ART and 2 ARM
Attack Ukraine with 3 INF, 1 ART, 2 ARM and 2 FTR
NCM AA to West Russia
NCM Kazakh INF to join Chinese INF and FTR
NCM Evenki 2 INF to Archangel
NCM 5 INF on Buryatia

Germany takes Karelia on G1 but can only move 8 INF, 5 ARM to protect it while Soviets should have 8 INF, 2 ART, 4 ARM and 2 FTRs to retake Karelia.

The map disposition of the Eastern Front territories is still based on the Spring 1942 map - and the lack of NOs make the Karelia IC irrelevant as long as you can contest it.

@spc71:

Disappointment doesn’t figure in, if I don’t like what I see from the coming review then I won’t preorder. There’s always global later this year where you more or less know what your getting. A&A always seems to incorporate new things so I wouldn’t be surprised if its a little global, a little anniversary, and a little something new.

And a lot of the first Spring 1942 edition, which already is an evolution of the Revised map, which in turn comes from the Classic map. And I seriously doubt that they would simply ditch the experience gained since Revised to balance the game by adopting a map similar to AA50. But I may be wrong, like I mentioned above, I’m just speculating :)

@spc71:

Well first of all, I don’t see how this topic would be worthy of a prank, since we will know soon enough. You haven’t given me any reason not to believe the guy, you’re speculation wasn’t any more compelling than his supposed first hand knowledge.

But the difference is that I assume from the beginning that I’m speculating and trying to guess what the differences will be, while on his words he says that he’s seen the board but so far has offered no proof of it, and just said something that everyone wants, a reprint of AA50.
If you still want to create expectations that a AA50 reprint is on its way, go ahead but you’re the one who will be disappointed if it does not come out.

@spc71:

i don’t have any reason not to believe the guy

How about a prank? Or, do you believe everything that is posted on the internet, or from someone new to the forums?

Until proof, it is either speculation or misinformation.

@questioneer:

Wow…if this is true then essentially this IS the AA50 reprint…

I noticed it as well that’s why I want proof of what he’s saying, since I don’t believe that they would just copy the AA50 map, stick some new rules and call it the 2nd edition of ‘Spring 1942’.

@Most:

Sounds like a review copy. How does one become a reviewer? Does having a crappy blog and a vulgar A&A podcast help? I have those! I’ll need review copies of all of the games coming out from now on if it’s not too much trouble WotC!

http://dicetruction.blogspot.ca/

Unless Variable (who is the only one with a known copy) confirms this information or he posts an image of the new board on another site this is unverified information. A new guy comes to the board and claims that he has seen the map? Well, I say, prove it  :mrgreen:

@oztea:

Also, if each territory was 1 IPC, then no ICs could ever be built in China, which is also a good thing.

(Though I would like a special rule that the US can always mobilize one Infantry in China if it controls at least one Chinese territory & India is held by the UK)

We don’t know yet how the ICs will be on this version but my guess would be to retain the Spring 1942 system, 1 type of IC that can build the number of units the territory is worth.

@miamiumike:

I do not have the board in front of me, so, I do not have all the changes, but here are ones I do know:

a) algeria and libya were 2 territories - now are 3 - add in morrocco - all worth 1 IPC
b) china has been divided into 4 territories (each worth 1 IPC)
c) what was s. europe now has s. europe and I think Italy separate - there is an IC in Italy, but the IPC value is only 3
d) the overall IPC count at the start is almost exactly the same - I think Germany starts with 41 (not 40) and UK starts with 31 (not 30)
e) australia is now two territories (each worth 1 IPC)
f) norway is now split into finland and norway
g) there seems to be just a bit more ‘space’ between germany (berlin) and russia (moscow)
h) africa is just a bit different - including egypt being by itself with I think sudan below it (but sudan is worth nothing)
i) there is now a burma territory
j) western europe is now broken into two pieces - like global

That is all I can remember ATM…

MM

How come you have the board before it has been released?