@ncscswitch:
US: “I can’t see the water. I have too many ships.”
No, you need to re-roll your attack on my US fleet, there are TWO red chips under the Battleship, not 1…
:mrgreen:
Until I read the Caspian Sub policy papers, I would not have really gotten that joke!
1. Territories in west worth more IPCs.
Oh, I did read the rest, but you could have stopped at 1. The game really does come down to control of IPCs. Until I actually pull off an Axix victory for myself (no really, I’m TOLD it can be done!), any plan for Germany that doesn’t involve taking IPCs from Russia early and often just doesn’t make sense to me mathematically. Conversely, it makes sense to me to have Russia focus on Germany, yet play smart and opportunistically against Japan. However, if the Allied consensus were to use KJF, then strategies like reinforcing Bury do make sense to me.
@ncscswitch:
For 1 AC to reinforce the Baltic, yes you are.
For the attempted fleet unification, no you are not.
I felt that, in theory, fleet unification would help my fleet survive longer, but in practice (setting aside the fact that I failed to unify) I believe it hastened my defeat on land. Either leaving the small fleet in the Baltic to slow down Allied reinforcements to Russia or aggressively attacking the Allied navy in the Atlantic/North Sea would seem to have been preferable, in hindsight.
In the game I was playing, I was wiped out by combined UK/US forces, don’t remember which turn, after a successful invasion of Normandy by the Allies, an unsuccessful counter-attack on my part, and an unsuccessful assault on WRus by my EEur big stack, which had been timed to occur on the same turn as Japan’s attack from Novo into Russia. The latter also failed! It may seem surprising, but Russia’s two big stacks were able to withstand the Axis attacks, and then my defeat was just a matter of time. Japan resigned a couple of turns after Berlin fell, as the Allies held 8 VCs and there was no point in continuing.
Nevertheless, the game was fun and I learned a lot. I’m not giving up on playing Germany, and hopefully next time I will have learned a thing or two. I’ve been reading the Caspain Sub policy papers; some of those strategies would work well against a newbie friend I have, but I assume experienced players around the forum are quite familiar with effective Allied responses.
3 in 36 = 1 in 12, or roughly 8.3%
Yeah, I see that now. And I thought I still liked those odds, but after reading Caspain Sub policy papers I decided to try and avoid sbr unless it’s the endgame and my bomber has nothing better to do.
Honestly, I wrote my “review” of the NAs before I ever looked at Caspian Sub, but I was pleased to see that I evaluated most of them about the same way as the policy paper. But the way the policy paper quantifies the Allied advantage from NAs, it pretty much convinced me to avoid using them at least until I learn more about the basic strategies of the game.
After further review, I wouldn’t use my valuable gaming hours trying SeaLion even in a casual game. I used the frood.net simulator with the following units:
Attacker 2inf 6ftr 1bom (assuming tech rolls to get long-range aircraft, which would debilitate Germany anyway), Defender 2inf 1art 1arm 2ftr 1bom 1AA. Based on Low Luck, the results of 1,000 battles were 67% of the time Germany loses everything and UK is left with 1ftr. That’s horrendous. Entertaining for the Allies, maybe, but seriously stupid! :lol: Maybe everybody knew this already, but I thought it was interesting to check it out.
I’m still looking for a German strat I like…
Yes, but you only got 50+ IPC cause of a fluke of the dice.
Didn’t I read somewhere that she has a reputation for trash talk? Booyah, in your face! This is good stuff! :lol:
Oh this is total trash talk. NoMercy’s one of the better players on the forum. Just the fact that in almost every game he plays he somehow manages to get Germany sky rocketted up to 50 or 60 IPCs in a couple of rounds is testament to taht.
Though, his Japanese forces are always severely lacking and if he ever gets confronted with a KJF (hint future opponents) he’ll crumble like a house of cards in Hurricane Katrina. I actually knew that prior to this game, but had temporarily forgotten this little piece of trivia. Otherwise, I would have gone the KJF route myself on him. (His entire strategy hinges on the allies retaking land from Germany and hten transferring it to Japan in the hopes that Germany can build fast enough to fall back on itself and allow Japan in the back door.)
Hey, I could use NoMercy’s help with my G strategy then! He’s holding back on me; maybe he doesn’t want to give away his secrets!?
Russia is not helpless, surely it can hold out on at least one of the two fronts until UK and US save the day. Let’s get the discussion back to Russian strategy…
Island bases is kind of tricky. Let me attempt to use an example to explain. Let’s say you have 2 US fighters in Hawaii. And you want to attack two spaces over. Now, normally you would count 1 move into the sea zone after taking off from Hawaii and then go from there. In this example, that would be 1 space in to 52, and then 2 spaces to wherever you’re attacking. Unless you had a carrier present to go pick up those fly boys, they are not going to make it home. Not so with Island Bases. Instead, you wouldn’t even count flying out of the sea zone surrounding Hawaii as a move. Instead, the next sea zone you encounter ends up being move 1, and the second sea zone, where the enemy is, is move 2. You kill them, so you turn around and go home, with your 3rd move into the sea zone connected to 52, and then move 4 is the sea zone 52/Hawaii. So basicaly, any island in the Pacific becomes one giant landing pad/take off strip for your fly boys and bomber men.
Is this clear enough? :-P
Yes, thank you, that’s clear. Hmmm, pretty cool, worth consideration. It’s kind of like long-range fighers in the Pacific, in effect. Except you would have had to conduct some island-hopping first.
Actually, an AC lets the Germans use their AC-based fighters to threaten territories deeper in Russia. The AC also lets the Germans use their AC based fighters to threaten London. (But you know, fighters based at Western Europe could threaten London anyways).
What happened, I bet, was this: The Allies used their combined navy and air force on YOU. You don’t want that to happen. You want to use the German navy and air force on THEM. Barring that, you want to have big enough of an air force so that if the Allies DO commit their navy and air force, they have to commit pretty much all their navy and air force - and here’s the REAL trick - your navy has to be strong enough defensively so that the Allies cannot effectively hit and run after soaking up a few casualties. That is to say - if the Allies attack with navy and air force “to the death”, leaving Allied navy in the water, you should have enough of a Luftwaffe to destroy the entire rest of the unified Allied fleet with minimal Luftwaffe losses. If the Allies attack and retreat before the core of their force is destroyed, you should have enough fodder and air power to destroy the Allied fleet again with minimal Luftwaffe losses.
Too bad I can’t run TripleA at work. Then we could play a game or two.
Absolutely, I realize now I should have moved Kriegsmarine from SZ5 to SZ7 or so on G2, then attacked Allied navy with everything on G3. Hindsight is 20/20. Or maybe not, I remember Allied navy had no trouble T1 unifying with UK 1BB 1AC 3trn, R 1sub, US 1DD 2trn 2F. Plus whatever they added T2. That would have been one mother of a Jutland II, or whatever you want to call it. I can’t shake the feeling that buying G navy is money wasted, but I’m willing to try it out again with “better” moves.
Oh sure, I would love to get pummeled by you, and your little dog, too! :lol: What’s TripleA? Can I have like 50 extra IPCs on the bid?
UK: “My air force is bigger than Jesus!”
If John Lennon and the Beatles had been around, he would have said they were bigger than RAF AND Jesus. Wait, was he a baby in WWII? Maybe he WAS there.
It’s not a “bad” poll, newpaintbrush, if taken at face value. It’s just limited to the choices you gave. Your poll, your question. :-) Now, I agree another poll with all those other options would be good, too, but that’s different. No limit on topics around here. :wink:
The reason I like taking Belo in addition to WRus is I like that buffer zone between my big stack and the enemy. Also, the game is about maximizing IPCs, isn’t it? If it’s there for minimal losses, take it. I don’t see the advantage of not taking Belo.
1. Not my poll. Rly. You can’t prove anything. (cookie crumbs around mouth)
2. It was a bad poll. BAD POLL. BAD!
3. I think a Russia1 attack on West Russia, Ukraine, and E. Europe is insane. Don’t get me wrong, I like freaky insane chicks. But even I have limits. (roar of laughter in the background)
4. For the record, I think West Russia/Belorussia is the best combat move on Russia1. I haven’t ever done really extensive analysis, but preliminary reports indicate that the move is sound. PLUS my astrologer says it’s the right move, and you know you can’t mess with your astrologer.
Oops, you’re right, I lost track of the OP. Funny, where did darkangel go?
Okay, a few things.
1. Ukraine is a viable target. I personally do not like attacking West Russia/Ukraine. Doesn’t mean it isn’t viable, though.
2. When you can trade Russian infantry for German infantry, do it. Especially when you can trade LESS Russian infantry for MORE German infantry and grab a territory to boot. (i.e. 3 inf 2 fig into Belorussia on Russia1)
3. The OP (original post) stated put 1 inf in Caucasus, 1 inf 2 art 2 tanks in Russia at the end of Russia1. I disagree. I believe 2 inf 2 art go in Caucasus, and 2 tanks in Russia. That offers a better earlier take and hold threat against Ukraine. But because of that, this is usually combined with a West Russia/Ukraine attack. If Russia attacks West Russia/Belorussia, beefing up the Caucasus offers the Germany a chance to do Kitchen Sink attack.
4. Also, I would not take the 6 inf east of Russia into Russia. At most, I would pull 4 inf into Russia and 2 into Caucasus, so you have 4 inf 2 art 2 fighter in Caucasus. (Remember, that is ONLY if you attack West Russia AND Ukraine; 4 inf 2 art 2 fighter is usually plenty to hold off the Germans). With that position, if Germany attacks Archangel on G1, you can counter with 2 inf 1 fighter to kill that German tank, and you also threaten West Russia + Caucasus forces to Ukraine on Russia2. The Russian position is not really weakened by having only 4 inf 2 arm on Russia at the end of the Russian turn; that’s plenty to counter the worst Germany can threaten with by the end of G1 (that is, 1 tank at Archangel). Even in the event that Germany stacks Karelia, Russia always has the option of fortifying West Russia.
I totally agree with your analysis, newpaintbrush, down to the details like what to do with the 6inf east of Russia. Wouldn’t want to face your R with my G.
I tried running G1 SeaLion on a simulator, but I don’t think the simulator works very well for this, because in order to TAKE UK Germany must save 1inf, so after 1inf lost then ftrs take the hits. Â
If you haven’t already, try the sim over at http://frood.net/aacalc/ . It has the option of re-calc’ing based on leaving a land unit to take the territory. Plus it’s a great sim anyway.
Thanks, I will definitely use that.
As for SeaLion,
new paintbrush: Â UK can retake on its turn with battleship support shot and E. Canada tank,
It seems implausible that even a successful SeaLion left more than G 1inf on UK, so UK’s re-capture has only a 33% chance of failure (the odds of a hit on the UK tank). Â Worst case for Allies, US retakes UK, but then UK would be down the 30IPCs it lost to G plus the IPCs it did not earn by not owning its capital at end of UK1. Â G earns 38 IPCs by taking UK but probably has to spend those on replacing the Luftwaffe, and UK has no forces for UK2. Â I don’t know, coupled with a trannie buy, G can put real pressure on UK. Â It’s worth a try just to have some fun in a casual game.
With a bid system, let’s say Axis gets 8IPCs, but wouldn’t it be smart as Allies to specify “no new units in Baltic”, or something like that, to prevent a buffed SeaLion?
It’s not a “bad” poll, newpaintbrush, if taken at face value. It’s just limited to the choices you gave. Your poll, your question. :-) Now, I agree another poll with all those other options would be good, too, but that’s different. No limit on topics around here. :wink:
The reason I like taking Belo in addition to WRus is I like that buffer zone between my big stack and the enemy. Also, the game is about maximizing IPCs, isn’t it? If it’s there for minimal losses, take it. I don’t see the advantage of not taking Belo.
Well, back on topic about UK first turns, I agree that KJF is not so great for UK. When I think of KJF I think of US KJF. Do the math: US pits 42 IPCs against 30 for J. UK + R = 54 to 40 for G. UK must help R. When people talk about UK KJF, that often translates to “build IC in India”. Everyone knows this subsequently drains 9 or more IPCs per turn away from the Western front. But that’s the challenge, can UK split its efforts and be effective? That’s why UK is probably my favorite nation to play – in sports you would call them the “X factor”, the difference maker.
I prefer to limit NAs to one per nation. Â If I can only have one, I vote for:
Russia – Lend-Lease. Â Yes, even nerfed, as Jennifer says, it can make a big difference. Â I totally agree Non-Aggression Pact is a double-edged sword and potentially harmful to the Allies. Â The rest of 'em produce big yawns.
Germany – I like Panzerblitz, but others are cool too. Â Luftwaffe Dive-Bomber is very tempting. Â U-Boat Interdiction or Wolf Packs would be fun to try, but I think subs are too easy to kill. Â Atlantic Wall and Fortress Europe sound OK, but they are kind of boring. Â Germany’s NA choice depends so much on style of play, and I am not even clear on how to play Germany, so this is a tough choice! Â :-D
UK – first, can we agree French Resistance is very lame? Â I mean, 3inf does not come close to most other NA. Â Radar seems quite weak. Â I can see how a clever player might make good use of Mid-East Oil or Enigma Decoded, but the latter is too limted as a one-shot use. Â That leaves Colonial Garrison, which not only is worth 15IPCs but is especially broken considering the game favors the Allies in the first place. Â I would love to play Colonial Garrison but would feel like I’m cheating! Â That leaves Joint Strike, which earns my vote because it captures the true spirit of what “the Allies” are about, and it is not broken because it’s a one-shot use. Â Don’t you hate when the US is ready for Normandy, but UK on that turn was not quite ready to go, but together you think you have a chance, so you UK declares Joint Strike and you’re all happy now? Â Come on, don’t you love that feeling?!
Japan – first time my friend and I played Revised, at a convention, I was G and he was J, and our opponents LAUGHED OUT LOUD when we even mentioned Kamikaze. Â They practically begged us to take it!!! Â We did not seriously consider it, to say the least. Â Kaiten Torpedoes sounds OK until you realize after UK1 you may not even have any subs on the board, and if you build them the Allies may be squirming with delight. Â Dug-In Defenders – Huh? Â OK if you have already given up. Â Banzai is too much of a double-edged sword; what, only good if I don’t use arm, ftr, or anything else I normally like to use when attacking? Â That leaves Tokyo Express and Most Powerful Battleships. Â The latter is actually quite weak, because it affects 2 units, and if you build more, again the Allies will probably thank you for not building 3 trn. Â Tokyo Express wins by default? Â Again, affects very few units. Â This is a lousy lot of NA. Â I guess I would commit hari-kari, eat my double-edged sword and take Banzai. Â Not sure about this at all.
US – At first I like Mechanized Infantry the best; very nice. Â Then I realized Superfortress OOB was broken. Â Even nerfed, Superfortress means what, a 1 in 18 chance of a hit by AA, is that right? Â I hate when my bomber gets shot down, so I may still go with that. Chinese Divisions, hmmm, too boring. Â I don’t even understand Island Bases, could someone explain that one? Â Fast Carriers, well, too limited given that after J1 you probably have no AC. Â Marines are cool, no doubt, semper fi, so that’s a possibility.
First, some housecleaning. Yesterday I was working without detailed notes, so I didn’t quite describe the situation accurately. Way back when, in a response to squirecam’s question about what I was buying, I implied that after G3 my big stack in EEur had only 10inf plus some art and arm and that R had 2:1 inf advantage. It was not quite as bad as that; after G3, the eastern front big stacks were: G in EEur 15inf 3art 7arm, R in WRus 10inf 2art 4arm 1ftr, Cauc 13inf 2art 1ftr, but since R also held Karel, Belo and Ukr, the stacks were not in direct contact. G had only 1inf in Balk and 6inf 1art 2arm in Ger as reserves.
OK, here’s this morning’s AAR. The game is now at begin US5. IPCs: R=23, G=39, UK=25, J=39, US=40. T4 and T5 did not go all that well for the Axis. My attempt at fleet unification was a miserable failure; the US sunk 1AC 1DD 2sub 1trn in SZ12, giving up 3trn 1DD 1ftr, which slowed them down but not enough. UK4 took FWA and US4 took Alg, so Africa will be lost soon. G4 I had 21inf 3art 8arm 1ftr in EEur, whereas the Allies unified in Karel with 22inf 5art 5arm 1ftr, but I passed on attacking that; even if I won I would have left a few arm that would have been destroyed in counter-attack. Now, had I brought 3ftr from WEur I could have done better, but then I would have severely weakened WEur. UK5 threatened 7inf 2art 3arm 1BB against WEur, but spent another turn building up, plus US will now be in position to invade Normandy and SEur. The assassination plot against der Fuhrer is brewing.Â
Ultimately all of this probably means “thumbs down” from me on the G AC buy, because I don’t see what I could really accomplish with it. DarthMaximus said
If you build an AC you must threaten to do something substantial with it.
and I agree. Perhaps another player could have utilized the AC better; squirecam was right, fleet unification must occur early for the AC buy to work, but then I would have given up some other productive moves. The truth of the matter is that by the time the Kriegsmarine was in range, the Allies combined fleet in SZ8 was too much for me to attack, even with air support.
So what has J been up to? Unfortunately, J has had a bad game. Underestimated stength of R, which rolled well and decimated J arm in Sink on R5. J4 took Hawaii, but US had plenty of defense in WUS, so J5 attacked Aus. Ace! for the Aussies, they actually won. J BB missed, and the rest went downhill. J made a critical error and used one turn to build inf in Kwang instead of all arm, so tank production is deficient. Sure, J can still be a major pain, but I predict it will be too little, too late for the Axis.
@Nix:
She can talk the talk but can she walk the walk?? :evil: :-ov :wink:
Are we still talking about Axis & Allies? :wink:
Nix, I just noticed the quote from Oscar Wilde; that is too funny! I’m going to borrow that. Then, when someone laughs (surely someone will laugh :?) I’ll say, “So, you agree with me?!” :-D
Uhm, is it just me, or how does the Russian sub in SZ 6 stop Sea Lion? You hit it with 2 Subs, 1 Destroyer and bring the transport along with it’s payload to land in England. Then send in your fighters and bombers to England and (if staged for it) bring the BB/Trn up to SZ 8 or 7 for added firepower.
No, of course it doesn’t stop SeaLion. All I said was it makes it “slightly more risky”. If SeaLion fails and the sub gets a hit, then the Kriegsmarine is that much more vulnerable to counter-attack. Minor point.
I tried running G1 SeaLion on a simulator, but I don’t think the simulator works very well for this, because in order to TAKE UK Germany must save 1inf, so after 1inf lost then ftrs take the hits. Also, UK could assign an early hit to its bom to improve its overall kills.
@Nix:
to Germany, build 10 infs or what you can afford, and push back into EEur with force the following round, gives russia some short time cash but he can´t break Germany alone in any circumstance since it´s easier to defend then to attack and “traditionally” Russia tend to lack offensive punch.
Retreat? Der Fuhrer will have me shot!!! I understand what you all are saying, but it sure runs counter to my instincts. What the, maybe I’ll give it a try… Still hinges on unifying the fleet (not a given) and the Japanese tank drive to Moscow. Too much talk on my part, I need to get home and play! :-D
Yes, but you only got 50+ IPC cause of a fluke of the dice.
Didn’t I read somewhere that she has a reputation for trash talk? Booyah, in your face! This is good stuff! :lol:
@Nix:
If you go KJF, you have to have an IC in India
I would only advise this if you make the atack 3 inf, india to French indo china + 1 fig SZ35 to French indo china, and manages to kill atleast the 2 inf´s there, if you fail put the IC in Australia or Southafrica or it will be lost on J1.
Agreed, but you make your decision whether to buy IC before combat, so let’s say you buy IC and kiil nothing in FIC, where do you put your IC?