Can a transport starting in another sea zone pick up troops in a sea zone which contains an enemy sub and then proceed to another seazone and attack with said troops while at the same time, naval ships (including a destroyer from an entirely different sea zone enter the sea zone containing the enemy sub to attack the enemy sub? This is all happening during the combat move phase.
Yes.
Personally I don’t like the J1 attack as it is the least flexible of all the Japanese possible openers (ie. J2 or J3 or J4), and while I 100% agree that the UK transports, or at least one of them, should have started next to India, I don’t think the playtesters “missed” the J1 attack. If you have a different Allied style of play then that’s cool, but if you’re finding that you can’t hardly ever stop Japan then you should probably try making a few drastic changes to your moves and do some serious experimenting. You never know what you’ll learn from yourself. 8-)
Thanks, kungfu, I was waiting for someone to respond like this - that a J1 attack is not necessarily the best decision to make. I’m not saying I agree with you, but I’m glad someone finally posted some ideas and made a case for delaying from a J1 attack. I’ll have to try J2, J3, etc sometime…
@Cmdr:
However, I, personally, am using classic to teach my children how to play before getting them into more advanced games.
Now that’s a cool mom. Not too many moms playing A&A with their kids :-D
….Supposing the statistics on what percentage of middle America pays in taxes is true (I don’t believe it to be true), it only proves Austrian Economics correct.
Oh, it’s true. Hmm, let me dig out my own 2009 income tax returns.
2009 total income - $55,849
2009 total FIT - $651
I had no special or big deductions. I did not even itemize. I have a wife and 2 kids. Effective FIT rate = 651 / 55,849 = 1.17%
Why would you say you “don’t believe it to be true” when you could gather facts and find what the truth actually is? :? Well, anyway - it’s true! I prepared about 120 income tax returns per year for the last 5 years. Middle America pays very little FIT. Lower incomers take more from the government on their income tax return alone, than they put in (not their fault - the government made the rules).
2009 State taxes (Iowa) - $2,156
Effective State rate = 2,156 / 55,849 = 3.86%
So in 2008 when the Federal government sent us a stimulus check for $1,800, they were sending us 3 years worth of taxes.
I’m not making a point - just providing information, which actually backs up some of you guys’ points. The fact is, middle (and certainly lower-income) America is paying next to nothing into the National Budget by way of income taxes. This is a fairly big change from 20-40 years ago. My thought is maybe politicians have figured out that giving tax breaks to the majority of voters gets you voted in and makes you more popular.
And just to prove the ignorance of many people - people clamor for an end to our income tax system and they think a national sales tax is a good idea. No thank you. I don’t want to trade my $651 a year in income taxes for a 15-20% added sales tax on everything I buy. The top 5% of income earners in America pay roughly half of the total individual income taxes per year. Pretty safe to assume where the national sales tax argument is coming from. I guess many of the bottom 80-90% of earners who want federal tax reform are too ignorant and/or uneducated to realize that they are cheering for major tax breaks for the rich and major tax hikes for everyone else! :-o :-)
I’m afraid I have no idea what you’re talking about. The only dogfighting in the original Pacific occurred during SBRs.
:lol:
I think that with the introduction of the global version of the game that it will make that decision a lot more difficult than it is now. I think that is the problem with the game, it was designed as a global game but sold piecemeal instead. I still think that the allies can win without a bid but like many people have said that the only way that happens is if the Japs make a mistake or two. Without that Russian horde threatening invasion it allows Japan to run wild around Asia with no recourse.
I think you’re right about the global game being sold in 2 halves, but the makers were adamant that P40 was fine as a stand-alone game. Well, it would be fine if the rules and setup were customized a bit more (for a Pacific only game). But as it stands now, they appear to have failed in “missing” the J1 attack as being the most desirable choice for the Axis player (the subject of this thread).
There’s a very good summary of the game on board-game geek.com - look for the summary with the most votes. He estimates 60% Jap victory, and that they need to attack on J1. Others are disagreeing with him, saying 60% Allied victory, but not saying if that’s with a J1 attack! Check it out…
I did research 1940 naval forces of the Allies… Can’t find anything about transports, because the focus is on warships, but I don’t see anything about any battleships being in Singapore in 1940. There were some warships, but not battleships. Also, Australia had heavy and light cruisers, etc. India had various warships as well (DD and CA seems about right - as in the game)
So… It does seem we’re playing only half of a game, and the rules were not adequately customized to really make this one stand on its own as intended! :x This seems to be the conclusion of many of us here… Is it August yet?? :lol:
And you yourself said that you made many of those same moves right out of the gates, so it’s not like there is some kinda diabolical move going down on J1. And its certainly not the case that I’m trying to brag myself, about the Japanese being so tough, it’s just the way it is.
There have been a couple people that have posted in the threads and all they want to bring to the conversation is “Aw hell, I’ll beat you”, and they have no clue as to what the actual discusion is.
Yes, I understand you.
It’s not easy to find the UK naval strength at Singapore in 1940…. but it was interesting reading about how the Jap leader just totally bluffed the Allied forces into thinking they were vastly out-numbered, when in fact they had 3 times the forces… Seems there were disagreements among British command, and the guy who said they needed to fight to the bitter end was not listened to… etc etc
But in my P40 game the Allied troops listened!! Good grief, I wiped them out in one round of combat, but the Allies hit me 4 out of 5 on 2’s! So much for history - hehe.
But given the 1940 setup and how a J1 attack accomplishes so many vital objectives, while the game mechanic gives you some reasons for delaying that attack, it’s very disappointing to find out that a J1 attack is so superior - taking the hard decision out of the game (that was intended to be there). So I’m curious now, about what kind of navy the UK actually had at Singapore in 1940. Maybe their fleet should just be relocated. Not as dramatic as giving the US an immediate 40, but is along those lines, kind of. Actually, maybe it’s more similar than it seems… 2 transports and all those money islands…
Another good post, Kauf…
I agree that the effective J1 (achieving all those objectives - I think it was you who put them up) is pretty straight-forward and not real hard to see. I think Van_Trump just meant that your move does pretty much all the things that need to be done - that’s what he meant by “book move”, I think. If a textbook was written about this game, it would say to make pretty much all those attacks (definitely Phillipines, Hong Kong, Yunnan, take empty Chinese TT, sink American transport, probably even ANZAC DD and TP…). I mean, I made all those attacks (except on ANZAC) the very first time I played this game, without reading anything before hand, and I’m sure almost all experienced A&A players would do the same.
Van_Trump, I actually took all 4 bombers after the battleship on J1 the last time I played, to ensure it didn’t get two shots off. I lost one bomber, so could land the rest in Kwa.
Also, I took CV, BB and FTR down to ANZAC “fleet” (snicker) along with the Tac that had finished toasting the ANZAC sub. My capable opponent chose not to counterattack with ANZAC air, even though my BB got dinged. It eventually got repaired at Singapore…
I think I’ll play a delayed J attack when I want higher difficulty, like one of you guys had suggested. It’s just that I am sure the designers meant for it to be a hard choice of when to attack, but it appears to be a no-brainer (not a hard choice at all). J1 is easy setting, J2 is medium, J3 is hard, J4 extreme :lol:
I will have to try them, but I cannot imagine how you could gain a better position on the Allied players by waiting, when they’re earning so much more money than you. The best position you’re gonna get is gonna be right there at J1 - Phillipines, Hong Kong, British and ANZAC fleets all served up for you on a silver platter!! :lol:
If the designers wanted to make a J1 a hard decision, maybe they shouldn’t have put a Strat bomber on the Phillipines, or two UK transports and a BB sitting at Singapore, or making it necessary for the UK to have Hong Kong to get an NO!
Hmmmm… I can’t remember - I know I’ve seen the history of a BB battle between the UK and Japan around Singapore… Anyone remember how that went? I should look it up, here…
OK, got it. It was the Prince of Wales and it was sent to Singapore in October of 1941, sunk on December 10, 1941 by Jap 86 land-based bombers and fighters……
Now that I found that out, I’m wondering what naval force the Brits actually had stationed at Singapore in 1940! Looking it up next…
Wow, you guys seem pretty knowledgable.
Everones complaing about our national debt, what if instead of worrying about it we just didnt pay the debt back. See what anybody says about it.
We got tons of nukes, tons of planes, a huge a** navy, marine corp, 82nd and 101st airborne, delta force, navy seals. What is anyone gonna do about it?
Honest question :wink:
I’ve wondered about this myself. Seems you shouldn’t let someone borrow so much money from you if they can take you down.
This is why I never lent my older brother (5 years older than me) any money. He had to take it from me - I wouldn’t willingly lend it, because if push came to shove, he wouldn’t really HAVE to pay it back at all!! :lol:
And somebody was wondering on here why we spend so much on “defense” :lol: ROFL
Wilson - that was some interesting stuff.
What is the total $$ value of US GDP and what is the national debt these days? By the way, I’m not sure the correlation between those two figures is as strong as you might be suggesting…… As you acknowledged - the US debt has relationships with many other wealthy and powerful nations, so isn’t the same as Greece, or whatever…
Last I checked (but has been a few years), interest on the debt was maybe a third of the national budget. Some of you brainiacs may disagree, but I think the USA can keep “throwing stuff under the bed” until it can’t make all the interest payments. Seems to me that’s when it would come to a head… As long as people buy US T-bills, well, it seems like the ride will continue.
Adults (like us now) were freaking out about the national debt 30 years ago. It was small back then compared to now… Not making a point - just throwing that out there… But as you suggest, Wilson, to compare the national debt as a percentage of GDP (or the annual budget, or whatever other number that quantifies the size of the nation’s government or economy), then if (hypothetically) the USA’s GDP grows by a higher percentage than the national debt, on average, over several future years, than as the national debt actually grows in actual $$'s, it would be becoming less and less of a problem, right? I mean, I remember thinking about it that way as well, in my college years…
As for your flatscreen tv, getting the $1800 is not a good thing. Assuming you are middle class, you will likely have to pay more than that in taxes to pay for giving all those people $1800. Or it is just $1800 * (large fraction of population of US) more debt. That is $1800 of debt that is to be left for your grandchildren to take care of. Imagine telling your grandchild as he gets born, "You were about $10,000 dollars in debt (their portion of the national debt) but now because of this flatscreen, you owe an additional $1800; good luck.
First of all, I had nothing to do with the decision for the gov’t to pay out $1,800 to me. So there is nothing for me to tell my grandchildren.
Second, did you notice I said an almost middle income family in the US pays ZERO FIT? Anybody less than middle income is paying negative income tax - they’re collecting from the tax system, rather than paying in (started with Clinton administration, by the way - to whoever said he ran surpluses :-)) I’ve been a tax accountant for the past 5 years, so I know this for absolute certainty. It’s public policy like this that leads to major problems. Why in the world is middle income America paying nearly no income tax? Not to say they’re (we’re) not taxed! Typical scenario - 5-6% State income tax, 1-2% FIT, 6% sales tax, 7.65% FICA tax, property tax, vehicle registrations, etc, etc, adds up to maybe 25-30% right there, plus taxes on various services (telecom, etc) we literally get nickel and dimed to death. But FIT is not a significant part of it, meaning simply that most Americans contribute very little directly to the National Budget. In fact, around half are taking more than they’re putting in. So my point is - obviously that does not work. And it’s not like us American voters are asking for this. Like Func said, you have 2 choices (2 parties) and neither is really going to fix what’s broken, so we’re all pretty much SOL - because it’s impossible for our votes to change anything.
(Continuation of previous post, thanks to glitch)
2. You learn some of the most powerful theories of economics in the first week. In fact, I learned these in my high school class in the first week. There is no such thing as a free lunch (basically, everything has a cost). And the laws of supply/demand and how they affect price.
3. Governments printing more money is a bad thing.
4. The Federal Reserve is powerful, somewhat unaccountable to government, and is just plain scary. And see #1 - no one really knows what they’re doing because they don’t really understand the economy.
5. More economic activity is a good thing (Keynsian, I guess). When my goverment gave me a check for $1,800 in 2008 for basically being married with 2 kids, I did what they wanted me to and stimulated the economy (hello, 50" flatscreen TV) and boy, am I glad I did.
6. It’s really hard to make a living with an economics degree other than being a teacher, to teach economics to other poor unsuspecting souls.
7. Minimum wage and most other government meddling in the natural laws of economics is counter-productive, or bad. Price fixing (minimum wage) interferes with the beauty of free markets.
Disclaimer - I’m not making points that I’ll argue or justify. As I said, these were just things I took away from my economics classes
As far as welfare - The US government currently is transferring wealth from some citizens to others (and back) at a staggering rate. It’s not just welfare. It’s through taxes, social security, welfare, and many other ways. It is common for people making $15-$20 per hour, assuming married with kids, to pay $0 federal income tax. And the crazy thing is, that most people don’t even realize it. Anyway, apparently the US government is really good at keeping a high-tech razzle dazzle armed forces, and redistributing wealth from one person to another, and putting people in prison. Oh, and making lots of rules for everyone to live by.
Hmmmm…… Quite the discussion.
Kind of enjoyed the video, Taiko
Never ceases to amaze me how much World War II and its after-effects define the world we live in, and how most people seem to already have no clue about WWII, economics (as has been said here) or government… And yet nearly everyone (in America) can vote…
Oh, and in reference to a previous comment - American voters don’t really pick their candidates either. They can be involved in helping them get picked, but it is still largely the parties who are guiding/controlling who the candidates will be who appear on the ballot. And for many races (president, congressman) there are only 2 real choices. Democrat. Republican.
Regarding economics - I have a business degree from a US university, so have had at least 3 courses in economics. Here’s what I took away from my classes (not what was taught, necessarily - but what I concluded):
1. Economies are so complicated that, really, even the most brilliant economic minds don’t really know what to do. There are too many effects at the same time, times change, attitudes and public perception changes, etc etc.
(Continued on new post - scrolling issues…)
I found a much better discussion on this J1 attack business at Harris’ site, complete with pictures :-)
http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=2155
There are actually some allied strats and justifications for waiting to attack as J on this thread…
Although the conclusions are still - J1 Jap advantage, J delay Allied advantage, which brings us full circle. Why in the world would you wait as Japan?? Maybe I’ll try it when I play a newbie or something.
This is a post by Larry Harris on his website that I felt I should post regarding this topic since I kind of feel the same way about it that he does.
“It could end up that indeed Japan has turned out to be too strong in P40. I don’t really know yet for sure.”
He doesn’t know for sure!?!
It seems to me that before you release a $100.00 game that one might want to answer this question first, before you put the game out there and start taking people’s money.
I know, right? I guess he expects the players to figure out the balance and make house rules or bids to balance it for him.
He talks like it’s not supposed to be balanced. He said “he’s done it” (beaten the Axis with the Allies) which I interpret to mean it doesn’t happen half the time. I guess the Jap player is expected to win, and if he doesn’t, he got unlucky, or he sucks, or is inexperienced, or some combination. :-D
His strat is basically take the DEI by J2, Malaya on J3, and build a major there J4, while keeping the fleet together and never splitting it
Oh - yeah - I misunderstood your question.
I have very little experience as the Allies. I’ve only played them maybe once to demonstrate that KUSAF is not a good idea. I am looking to play as Allies a few times in the near future… And I’m expecting to get smashed. :-)
Yeah, J1 is the best OOB.
What would be your strategy against kauf’s one? The J3 India crush?
Actually, I didn’t read all of his strategy.
But generally, I prefer letting India earn their pathetic 3-5 IPC’s per turn and crushing it when I can do so without risking as much air to AA fire, and can hopefully lose mostly infantry. I’d rather forgo the 8 income for a few turns if it’s going to save me several aircraft and leave them free to do other things… Sometimes I disrupt India’s convoy, too, so that they’re earning pretty much nothing. If India’s no threat, the only reason to take it is to get the 8 IPC’s of income. If this is going to cost a lot of planes or tanks, or has a risk of actually failing, I will build up and wait. With a major complex in Singapore, this is no problem. I think it’s best to take India on Japan’s terms, at her leisure… in general…
What would your allied players do against kauf’s strat?
Also, have you heard of the J3 India crush?
I’m with calvinliker on this. Interesting to finally hear someone say they attack on J2 or J3 or whatever, but I can’t imagine. There are so many targets of opportunity that far outweigh the little 40 IPC to the USA “deterrent” it’s not even funny. Shoot, the British BB and 2 transports, Hong Kong, the Phillipines, complete with a US fighter and bomber….
Phillipines value to USA - 7
Value to Jap - 2
Bomber and fighter on Phillipines - 22
Transport and destroyer at Phi - 15
UK 2 transports and battleship (less 2/3 chance at losing bomber) - 26
US transport at Hawaii - 7
ANZAC sub - 6
ANZAC transport and destroyer - 15
Taking away the UK’s ability to take money islands - 8 (or more - Jap doesn’t have to kill infantry on said islands later on, and UK could earn it more than 1 turn, I suppose)
Hong Kong to Japan - 8
Hong Kong denied to UK - 8
Annihilating most of the Allied starting boats and demoralizing them pretty much all around - PRICELESS!
Are we past 40 yet???
Seems like a no-brainer to me. J1 attack all the wayyyyy!!!
@skinny1:
Darth Sidious/Emperor Palpatine was alive during all 6 movies.
Yep, and 5 and 39/40th movies to be exact…. :-D