Congratulations to @farmboy !!
BACK TO BACK Balanced Mod 4 championship wins!! š
Congratulations to @Adam514 as runner-up, who also has a championship of his own, 2019. š
Both are entered in the league history of championship winners and 2nd place finishers, and deserve all due awe, honor and recognition āØāØāØ
If you want to learn, to observe brilliance, or both, then review the game in Triple A
A player noticed 3 months of missing game results in the ELO data during 2nd half of 2019.
I entered them all tonight.
If you didnāt play games during that time you will have very little change, but there were some noticeable tremors in the top 4. And if you did play games during that time, your game count and win % will be different.
Verification of accuracy of ELO data entry is still underway. Watch every day! You might go up a point! Or down.
Need to highlight a rule, because TripleA doesnāt follow it and it makes a difference.
Iāve been playing new to me players lately, and more than one veteran of the league exclaimed that heās never been aware of this rule, so I need to announce it.
This is noted in the TripleA game notes, under āgeneral rules for all A&A games that the engine does not do, but you must followā:
NA means there is No Available fix for this yet
To do it right you have to roll on forum, or sometimes itās possible to avoid this by giving your opponent the opportunity to go back and change a choice he didnāt have to choose. If itās one or two hits and casualties are being demanded out of turn, and itās obvious what theyāll take, like a hit to the battleship, you can sometimes avoid going to roll by forum. Details on how to roll on forum are below.
Put another way, Triple A is sure to do surprise strikes correctly and to keep subs from hitting planes, and planes without destroyers from hitting subs. That is great, but 2 errors remain:
The engine requires a casualty choice from sub hits when there is a (enemy) destroyer present. Step 2 of the rulebook for surprise strikes does not apply when a (enemy) destroyer is present because surprise strike capabilities are stuffed by a destroyer. You may have SIGNIFICANTLY different battle results if you think a player has to choose sub casualties and lock those in before seeing all the rest of the attack dice.
(Of course this is the case with surprise strikes, but when the other side (could be attacker or defender) has a destroyer, there is no surprise strike, there is no separate casualty choice)
The engine requires a casualty choice after rolling for planes only, when those planes do not have an accompanying destroyer. While it is necessary to roll planes separately to distinguish eligible casualty choices (canāt be subs), the opponent does not choose any casualty choices until ALL the dice are rolled.
It is unfortunate that a side-effect of rolling by forum is the detailed dice and casualty history is not in Triple A (but if you want round by round casualties to be in the history, you could always use game notes), but it will be saved on the forum.
The upside is, you can roll the dice old-school, like all 1ās, then all 2ās, seeing the results come in pieces at a time instead of the overwhelming screen of black and red dice all at once š
Here is the syntax for rolling dice on the forum in a way that automatically counts your hits.
[dice Xd6<=4|
Where both sides are brackets. I ended with a āpipeā symbol so that the forum wonāt think Iām trying to actually roll dice.
Where the āXā is the number of dice to roll, d6 means six-sided die, and <=4 will count all dice rolled that were a 4 or less.
You will enjoy another benefit. Triple A is having you wait for casualty choices from your opponent potentially 2 times per round when you would really only have to wait for 1.
Example:
If I am terrorizing your fleet with 10 subs and 10 bombers, and you have 5 subs, 5 destroyers, and 3 scrambled fighters,
The Triple A engine will correctly roll the 5 defending subs first and the attacker has to choose the surprise strike casualties.
Then the engine will roll the surviving attack subs (10 minus those sunk) but not the bombers and this part is incorrect. TripleA will stop and require casualty choices for the sub hits, so the defender would choose a combination of subs and destroyers. Then TripleA will roll 10 bombers and ask for casualty choice again. The attacking subs and bombers should all be rolled before the defender chooses ANY casualties.
If you circumvent TripleAs error and roll by forum, you could roll all 20 attacking units (less subs lost to defendersā surprise strikes) and ask for a choice a single time.
The other TripleA error is with defending planes that donāt have a destroyer on their side.
Great example - raid on Zone97 on UK1.
UK attacks with fleet and air, Italy defends with 2 cruisers, battleship, and perhaps 3 scrambled fighters.
After the UK dice, TripleA will roll 3 dice for fighters, and if there is a hit, stop and require a casualty choice from the Allied player. This is absolutely incorrect, the Allied player doesnāt have to choose anything until he sees the rolls from the 3 ships also, then assigns hits accordingly. He canāt choose a (bid) sub to scrambled fighter hits.
Clear as mud? Follow up questions!
And thatās just ONE of the opening round matches.
We also have the Titan veteran ADAM514 as #2 seed ONCE AGAIN facing Pacifierās board, a REMATCH of the first round 2023 playoff.
Pacifier is known to play very unconventionally and as such is a dangerous wildcard. Adam crushed the rebellion last year, but now he will have to prove it again.
Oh my goodness, we have a CLASSIC Ghostglider vs. Me1945 first round matchup, are you kidding me? These guys go waaaaay back and are VIP names in this league. Winner faces Axis-Dominion, assuming he squashes Flying Badger as a warm up (I can only say that because I now know Flying Badger is very cool and will not be offended. So if you are offended, stop it.)
That is quite the reward for the winner of the #4, #5 there. You get to face the all-time highest rated A&A player in the league, who has roared back in 2024 to make sure he was not forgotten.
2025 League rules have been updated from 2024.
There are only a couple sentence structure corrections, and proper links provided for the rankings, and that the BM and PTV rules are now located in their respective discussion threads and not on a dedicated pinned thread where it used to be.
Just remembered, the one change being made is @Arthur-Bomber-Harris proposal that the past year champion and runner up are automatic 1 and 2 seeds for the playoff, assuming of course they enter. After that, lifetime ELO score at 12/31.
Thanks, @Arthur-Bomber-Harris , that is a great idea.
Objection sustained, and thanks for another thoughtful post.
So I think I understand your sentiments, and itās difficult to respond really well to all that so Iāll do it in summary of the history through my eyes.
We played Out of the Box to death when it came out. G40 was a very, very hot Axis and Allies product. Many more territories and zones, more playable powers, new units, airbases and naval bases, dual victory conditions. Mind blowing.
Many of us certainly couldnāt wait until the game was polished up. Larry wanted us all to go ahead and play earlier iterations and give feedback. So we played a lot of games before it was even done.
When the game was finished and done tinkering, we had yet another ānewā version of the game. Like there was a major complex in Berlin now, and a minor in Ukraine that wasnāt there before. Exciting changes, but coming from the source, not from us, so it was global (pardon the pun).
In 2013 league players completed 619 games of G40
2014 was 550
2015 was 444
2016 was 487, and this was the first year BM was played.
2017 was 403
2018 was 451
2019 was 367
2020 was 365 - COVID bump
2021 I started tracked each version separately
OOB was down to 51
PTV 87
BM 201
Total 339 COVID still a factor
2022
OOB 30
PTV 38
BM 153
Total 221 Back to work LOL
2023
OOB 53
PTV 49
BM 118
Total 220
2024
OOB 53
PTV 83
BM 85
Total 221
Each of the versions started out very exciting because it was a significant twist on the much loved G40 game, and a mod that was widely loved and accepted as having
To your last statement,
Eliminating the small nagging skin tags is what started Balanced mod, for the most part, but I agree with you that the BM team went ahead and added a bunch of stuff to modify the game to be what they thought people would love most.
You are saying do a modification of OOB that is much smaller in scope that doesnāt add a bunch of features, it stops after fixing a few problems.
OK, that makes sense. And are you asking the league to come up with that fix, and maybe change it every year to mix it up? That does sound really cool and I would do it except then weāve departed from actual out of the box as soon as we change one thing.
Iām not intending to make a closing argument, Iām putting facts and thoughts out there for discussion.
@AndrewAAGamer said in League General Discussion Thread:
What are other things people donāt like about OOB???
Well Iām starting to wonder if maybe the bids have mostly fixed it.
I was away from OOB for a long time and when I left, bids were about 20-24.
With bids 20 or lower, as you know the infamous problems were Russia and India too weak, Germany just go south if the odds arenāt good enough on Moscow, fork Egypt/India, and if going India, Japan only has to go get Hawaii or Sydney and game over. Or, Germany go Egypt, take a bunch of Africa, swing back to a Russia that has no chance, for the win.
Russia couldnāt go get African NOās, every single unit was needed to survive in Moscow. Russia was often suffocated down to a few territories, earning 5 a turn and getting bombed so building nothing. Thatās not fun.
So my perspective is the balanced mod arose largely as a result of this repeat over and over again, Allies keep losing, and the thought of a much bigger bid was distasteful at the time.
Now that Iām finally back and kicked the BM4 addiction, I find that the bids (which I play around 40) have pretty much fixed the earlier experiences. Maybe I lost a lot of experience, but my Axis are NOT rolling nearly as easily.
One of your respondents who had no PtV games played, was looking at overall which was very misleading.
Just look at PtV ELO and how many games someone has played, and if you want to go further, look into the results tab to see their detailed history
We put a TON of hours into putting that data in!
USE IT!!!
š
Congratulations @ArtofWar1947 !
You are the first winner of a playoff this year,
Champion of the 2nd Path To Victory bracket
All hail
Artās Allies prevail on the 80th anniversary of V-E Day - NICE!
Iām going to grant you the same exception as farmboy in BM. He was one game short but in round 19 of a game that just canāt be called yet, and he is a key player in that playoff.
You are in a 2 year long 21 round struggle that canāt be decided yet, and are also 1 game short and a key player, and you want in.
@oysteilo Iām entering you in the OOB playoff, very similar circumstance to farmboy where a long game shouldnāt be called quite yet
ā¦sneaks up from behind and tips farmboy to the OOB side of the fence
#1 through #4 advance to round 2 of the balanced mod 4 championship playoff!
All 4 are huge names here in the long established league of A&A.org.
525 BM games experience collectively.
You read that right.
Thereās never been a better time to watch 4 MASTERS play each other. This is one of the reasons we have long term rankings and 3 level playoffs in the league. To make these kinds of matchups, simultaneously, with a championship game to follow. There can only be one, for 2025
I thought the same as you about the mech, Simon, but I didnāt realize they defended on a 3 when they are with a tank. Itās definitely a change, along with Strat bombers attacking on a 3 and carrier planes being able to defend land and neighboring sea zones. Iām still playing my first PtV game so am also trying to reserve judgment. When youāre so used to the old way, these significant changes take some getting used to.
The mech change does succeed in reducing the amount of mech (but not eliminating) and increasing the number of tanks in the game again, and I think thatās a good thing. They wanted to reduce the cheesy numerous fast cannon fodder mech were at 4, I believe. Sometimes I wonder if it would be a good idea to double all the IPC values of everything so that we could fine tune the values a little more on certain territories and units. Then mech could be 9 (not 8 or 10), effectively a 4 and a 1/2. If PtV isnāt finalized yet, maybe this is something to consider? Obviously a departure from all past A&A (goodbye 3 IPC infantry), but so is a lot of other things you guys have done here, so why not? :)
Sorry about delays in updating rankings - February is the most crucial month of the year for my work. Thanks for your patience. Iām updating them today.
@simon33 I think itās great that you replied to the last post on this PTV thread that was made a year ago, and instantly revived fun and spirited discussion!
In the future, if your game was a Path to Victory game, please notate that in your game result announcement here.
@PGsquig I think this is what you want to know -
BALANCED MOD 4 IS BALANCED MOD 3 with 14 IPC cost bombers. That is the only change.
Good discussion, I enjoy all posts.
We can do a separate ranking for P2V in 2021, no problem - probably should. Maybe we should do a separate ranking for OOB as well for 2021. Yes we do have a player who strongly prefers OOB in the top 8 and yes it puts others at a huge disadvantage who havenāt played it in years.
Up til now, it has made a lot of sense to have a default version in the league rules that also applies to the playoffs. The biggest reason being that one league (one standings) together keeps more players together and maximizes number of completed games. Makes sense to have a default version for if players canāt agree what version of the game they want to play, and everyone should know what that default version is, all year.
But now we have a bigger disparity in versions, and more versions, than usual. Pretty big differences between OOB, BM, and PTV. And others could come along, of course.
ksmckay is correct in saying the league belongs to the players - the moderatorās role is to play judge and facilitate the communityās wishes.
I am a firm believer in following the rules that have been established and understood and agreed upon, therefore the 2020 playoffs are absolutely governed by the league rules posted 1 year ago, no debate.
2021 league rules are on the table. I would propose that there are 3 different standings kept for 2021, being OOB, BM, and P2V and the league rules will be changed to reflect this. Any other version that comes up during the year or is played outside of these 3 versions (with BM and P2V including different iterations under those umbrellas) would need to be addressed too. Do they not count in the league - so basically not allowed? For example, you couldnāt really play AA50 or Spring 1942 or A&A&Zombies in 2020 and expect to have it counted in the league here.
The preceding paragraph is for you all to agree, disagree, discuss, or amend.
@PGsquig Would be exciting to see you play a league game, let us know if you have any questions about it
Good news - rankings updated by version for 2021!
Overall combined ranking sheet still to be set up later - itās not needed yet anyway.
The changes will be formalized in the league rules at some point. Until then, if you have any questions just PM me or ask on the boards and someone whoās read my posts may be able to help you.
I will use the same method as before, for establishing early rankings. That is, if you didnāt finish 3 games last year, I will find your most recent āfirmā ranking (year where you had 3 games completed) and subtract 1 tier. If you completed 3 games last year, your tier carries over to this year. If youāve never completed 3 games in a year or you were tier 3 last year, you start this year tier 3.
When you reach 3 games in a version in 2021, your tier will change to reflect your 2021 PPG rather than your previous yearās tier. There are a few exceptions, where I make a judgment call that does not follow these rules, in the spirit of making the rankings more accurate (generally when a player is clearly better than tier 3 but according to these rules because of few games played would otherwise be assigned tier 3)
