Posts made by FinsterniS

Yes ! 43% [ 7 ]
Probably… 43% [ 7 ]
Probably not… 6% [ 1 ]
No ! 0% [ 0 ]
Don’t know… 6% [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 16

A lot of certitude…. 7 Yes
And 1 Probably not… CC, YB ?

Pollution cost a lot to a society, i think this is a very short vision to say trying to counter pollution is damaging the economy. At short term yes, but not at long term. Just in large cities where there is a lot of pollution, there is less oxygen in the air, people tend to be more anxious, more fragile. So it will really damage economy at long term to fight against air pollution (just an exemple)?

Did people have to surrender selfishness to live in a society? No.

I think they did… From what we know they live in small group because they had not the choice, but they were not giving up power to help each other; that was an important part in evolution. The weak die, for the greater good. Extreme capitalism does not eliminate the weak (if the term can by apply to our society; i don’t even think so), it encourage parasitism, i think we can call that a deviance. It encourage behavior that are dangerous for our survival and social evolution. Sure i am not communist, we are not readuy for that, but i am for a move from Right to Left.

Also we are not all (completly) selfish. What horten call the “leftish european intellectual” have no personnal interest in these left-wing group; they will just loose money (power). They just think it is the good thing for social evolution.

@yourbuttocks:

@FinsterniS:

In fact they do not even use survey… i think the “germany” case is a good argument.

How do you know that the CIA does not use census? What else would they use?

How do you know Germany stats better than CIA?

You got lost somewhere, the stats bout germany IS BY THE CIA

@FinsterniS:

SOFRES; that is an agencies that make survey. I do not say they are right, just less wrong than the CIA. Because they base their statistic on survey. We are speaking about OPINION, only survey can be of any interest on that. The CIA does not care about opinion, they don’t have time to loose with that, they just take general statistic about how people are born. Because i am, statisticly, as much christian as you are.

Look at germany in the CIA statistic…

Protestant 38%, Roman Catholic 34%, Muslim 1.7%, unaffiliated or other 26.3%…

Why so much unaffiliated in Germany ? Because germany is more atheist than France (in reality it is similar)? More religious diversity ?

Nein, that is because the CIA does not care about survey, they just look how people are born, and in east germany some are born atheist because of the communist, that is why there is more Unaffiliated in germany.

people will not change

People change, they evolve. Not only our body evolve, but our society, our philosophy. You statement is just good for conformism, and am i not sure we can afford to live in a so competitive world, maybe our little technological toys will make us pay for our egoism.

Do you think the first sapies were able to integrate a society like our ? Nein ! Communism is not working for now, we are not ready for that, it is still a noble objective. Idealist are never very realistic in someway, but they trace the future…

I am not saying its a conspiracy inside the CIA, I’m just saying they are incorrect. They do not use direct French Surveys for this. They look at past censuses, and add in the average birth rate. This does not account for people converting, giving up their religion, or not being the religion of their Parents.

In fact they do not even use survey… i think the “germany” case is a good argument.

Fin, how often do censuses occur in France?

I don’t know

You know, i used to take offense to you using terms like “fantism” to describe my beliefs, but as i think about it, i feel better. Often i am afraid that i am more fanatical about exercising, pizza, gaming, women, etc. than my faith and Jesus Christ.
With regards to your “quotes”, if they are not metaphorical, then there is something that we don’t understand, or else that certain concepts were written simply for a simple people.

Exactlty what i said, you set all the condition so the bible will always be right. What can i say exept this is fanatism ? You should think about that…

you know, we scientists often make up concepts that please us as well. They are called hypothesis, and are developed according to previous literature and findings. The null (opposite) hypothesis is tested, statistical analyses are run, and the null hypothesis is either found to be true or wanting (i.e. the hypothesis is correct). This is a scientific method hung onto before Louis Pasteur. Scientists DAILY say . . . “hmmm . . . i wonder if the reason for this might be that . . . that is a concept that pleases me” (or something similar).

Yes, because there is REASON to believe that, other than the reason “i will believe X because it make me feel better”. When we attribute thing in nature to intelligence; it is just because we lack knowledge or vision… I explain all this on previous discussion. There is no Rational nor Empirical reason to believe in god, only “emotional” and personnal feeling. So, as there is nothing outside individiual that can be a reason to consider god a valid theory; it should always be personnal; not in science, not in politic, but it is in both ! There is lot of confusion in the common when talking about Carbone 14, Thermodynamic & occam’s razor… while i cannot blame religion for everything, it does not help. Religious “scientist” often use old and fallacious logic, as much as deformation of physic’s law, and i take it very personnaly when they use irrational logic to say they just “proove” god with their reason.

RNA is considered the first biological molecule - not because of any proof, but because it is a concept that makes sense.

Well i know that; but the key word is “becaue it makes sense”, god do not make sense, sure it WAS making sence, some 500 years ago, but our current discoveries about the Nature are incoherent with the belief of an intelligence, a divine creator.

The Bible, a compilation of work that has been tested for validity over the years has been around much longer than the scientific method (obviously so has religion).

That is not a reason to give it validity, it is just resilient… People believe in god because other people around them believe in god.

so much that you lack that 3rd eye to allow you to see what we do.

Well that is a little strange… I believe in god once, i feel him, i had this third eye… i just change my mind, but i am perfectly aware of christianism’s feeling towards god, i just loose that with Descartes.

About France, we are still the 5th power and you are making a dangerous correlation if you think the success of America is in large part due to it’s economical system (American are still very good economist/manager). Germany is not as liberal (in economy) as the UK; it is still more powerfull.

Also i would agree with Bosk, but i don’t think humanity has the vision for capitalist…

“most people’s thoughts move around in a circle with radius zero, which they call their stand-point”.

• David Hilbert, German mathematician

I agree there’s something we don’t know, something nebulous about evolution. But saying “god” all time we don’t understand something is a big lack of vision, an error “scientists” often made.

This is one area where the “blind watch-maker” hypothesis requires even more faith than religion.

That is an area we don’t have explored yet, but already some theory like the “morphogenetics fields”, can explain the phenomena without introducing mythology and fairy tales. I can, too, invent a mythological being that can explain everything in evolution but i won’t; that is not constructive.

Sheila Copps… It is not her that promise she will get out of politic if the TPS was’nt removed ?

And the Jedi religion is as valid as any religion… It seem maybe a little more strange… But if we were there when they write down the bible we would probably think the same thing about Christianism (…and Islamism, and Judaism)

I said i “prefer to be with crazy people that care about reducing pollution”, i did’nt said i prefer to be with extremist. Also “middle” is always subjective, and i don’t know, exept maybe for religion; where i am in an extreme.

I prefer to be with crazy people that care about reducing pollution, than to be with crazy people that do not care about our planet.

bah, that’s futile, you did’nt even answer my “germany” argument…

i won’t defend young-earth creationism here. I don’t really buy into it, and it has been a contention with between my father and i for some time.

i can understand that :)

Also the bible is not incoherent with current theory

The bible is incoherent with ALL current theory (well i don’t remember all the bible but in part). The earth is not flat, we are (human) very similar to other species, the earth was not “created” but formed, we are product of evolution not of some divine creator, and concept such as good & evil make the bible sound like a book for children. All these are incoherent…

I must admit i find it very hard, and always harder, to understand why people want to hard not to use their logic & creativity…

I’ve always maintained that if there appears to be a conflict between the bible then there is information that we are missing. Either that or we are taking something literally which was intended metaphorically and vice versa.

That is fanatism… A good reason so you will never have to say somethings is incoherent in the bible, it is “metaphorical”.

"Plants began to grow before there was sunlight. "
“God takes part in a wrestling match. He wins by injuring Jacob’s hip”
“The Moon is created as a “lesser light””

These are metaphorical ?

I’ve a B.Sc. in Chemistry, and nearly minored in Mathematics (too boring), so i’m not likely to get conned too easily.

I understand you did’nt like mathematic; not a lot of people does. What i like about it is that it require lot of logic and creativity, but it does not ask you to remember a thousand things…

Is it not scientific to consider possibilities outside of measurable realities?

Yes, but as i said we do not, in science, create concept just because it pleased us, i am sure you know that. There’s no evidence, empirical or rational for god… That is why you will find far more unreligious scientist…

Christianism take very hard hit… with Freud, with Copernicus, with Darwin. But it still live, people do not want to know, they just find it a little hard to believe we came microbes.

You even support once in this forum a circular argument, not because you are idiot, not because you are not logic. because this was coherent with your belief (yeaaaa, stupid argument for atheist also exist…).

Manche Menschen haben einen Gesichtskreis vom Radius Null, und nennen ihn ihren Standpunkt.

• David Hilbert, german mathematician (1862-1943)

please stop these unqualified calls on europe.

And on France… We are always taking the blame for Europe; that is sad & comical. France is the “lightning rod” of the Europe vis-à-vis America…

I don’t blame god, he does not exist, i just blame some who believe in god.

I am happy you use argument and not insult this time…

SOFRES; that is an agencies that make survey. I do not say they are right, just less wrong than the CIA. Because they base their statistic on survey. We are speaking about OPINION, only survey can be of any interest on that. The CIA does not care about opinion, they don’t have time to loose with that, they just take general statistic about how people are born. Because i am, statisticly, as much christian as you are.

Look at germany in the CIA statistic…

Protestant 38%, Roman Catholic 34%, Muslim 1.7%, unaffiliated or other 26.3%…

Why so much unaffiliated in Germany ? Because germany is more atheist than France (in reality it is similar)? More religious diversity ?

Nein, that is because the CIA does not care about survey, they just look how people are born, and in east germany some are born atheist because of the communist, that is why there is more Unaffiliated in germany.

Also WHY, why you want me so much to be burned ? I am not starting any topic each time i make an argument that i consider good. Is that just because i am a strong atheist ? (just a question). If that is the case i can understand; we are opposite, and i am not gentle with religion.

50/50 chance. The Earth is always either warming up or cooling down.

It is not just a question of warming up, pollution can be dangerous on other level.

True, but it’s funny that a movie can have such an impact (especially with this total black-white painting of good and evil in it:) …. btw, i love it!)

Most monotheistic religion also have a black & white sense of morality.

not scientific. Historical, anthropologically significant, literary, and most importantly a guide through spiritually muddy waters.

That is a “scientific” theory. Not a little toy to help you live nor something fun just to spread confusion in non-scientific domain. At least it is more coherent with Christianism…

i am a creationist. maybe not a young-earth creationist - although it is possible to defend that at some level, i don't really buy into it. but yes. i'm an intelligent design/creationist. 

How can you defend New Earth Creationist ? What, the earth is 10 000 year old, all the current species lived with dinosaur some time ago ?… But it take less than 2 000 and they completly disappear ? the flood probably. The carbone 14 test is working on a formula that say things are older than we really are, but it seem it only work for dinosaur, because between X and Y% of c14 remaining, there is only dinosaur and some mammal ?

Fanatism . . . i don't get it. I don't even know what that word means. Is it like Fanaticism? And if so that's a pretty subjective comment. Maybe in this context it's good to be fanatical? And if i'm fanatical about this, then are you not also fanatical? I mean, you've mentioned hatred vs. certain religious types much more than i've mentioned hatred vs. . . anyone.

Sure it is subjective, because you think you are right. What i mean by fanatic is that you take everything the bible said even if this is incohrent with current theory. Also that is a little hard for me to be fanatical; i rarely said in what i believe, you only know in what i do not believe. Sure i feel anger vs some religion, not when they are personnal, but when they take space in politic & science - look at the thermodynamic argument, the earth’s atmosphere argument, the logical argument; these are only creating confusion. If you do not have any formation (knowledge) in physics/chimy/mathematic you will probably get conned… that is not science byt demagogy ! you see i do not fear the word anger. Will you say you are tolerent vis-à-vis Québec ?

maybe check out Canada’s medical system some time. We are not communists, but unless you go to America, you basically get the same shitty care as everyone else. and maybe if i work hard enough, i too can get an office full of lawyers working for me. might be worth the s**t i have to put up with along the way.

That is still a left-wing concept. I was’nt trying to promote communism…

Also there’s a lot of people out there that work very hard; there are not all rich. Most people work how they can, they make our society work, but some got “lucky” and they have lot of money; they rarely give as much to the society as they take.