Cheer up, CC. The sacrifices your countrymen made on the beaches of Dieppe helped secure the victories in North Africa and Normandy. Many American lives were saved in North Africa because of the knowledge your hero’s aquired. Their sacrifice was great (3350 out of 5000 killed, wounded, and missing), but remember, it was made in the defiance of tyranny threatening freedom in the entire world. We salute your fallen hero’s…
Viva Canada !!!
A ground war in China !?!?! Can’t think of anything worse than that. Money talks. Trade = money = no war…
My last Ford lasted me 10 years, 140,000 miles. Well worth the 8 thousand US dollars I paid for it…
Yes CC, your valiant British transport crew had 3 Japanese fighters 1 Japanese bomber painted on it’s hull before my last Japanese fighter was able to sink it.
I have a more recent one in club play. I’m the Allies and my German opponent just lost all offensive capability. The Japanese were strung out all over Asia with no real supply lines. My Japanese opponent was to attack Moscow, but was outnumbered and odds were he would lose. However, my Axis opponent rolled (Japan) all tech rolls for the critical turn, and picked up long range aircraft, industrial technology, AND heavy bombers !!! It was hard not to shed a tear. The attack on Moscow now with 4 “Heavy Bombers” won out.
Now a few turns later, I have a sizable UK army with AA support in Egypt and Karelia. I have just taken Berlin as the USA, and have a good sized army there. Japan is stacking units in Moscow, destroying US production with various heavy bombers, and is threatening Washington in a 2 or 3 turns. I’m hoping Washington can hold out AND I can liberate Moscow - LOL !!! Now I need to be lucky…
Me thinks a United Europe has a shot…
If I recall during the Napoleonic Wars British AND French soldiers slaughtered many civilians…
Wild2000 - We usually don’t agree, but excellent response!
Alot of hatred in Yanny’s last post. I don’t necessarily hate what I believe isn’t there. People caused the Holocaust, the Crusades, the world wars, etc., etc. The problem does lie with the people; it’s up to us to stop these events from happening. Put the blame where it’s due…
That is exactly the point. US citizens don’t see the long term advantages US administrations give the country when they give foreign nations aid. All they know is un-godly amounts of taxpayer money is leaving the US quick. You agreed with me. Americans also don’t mind paying to bomb the Hell out of “enemy” nations. Back to my original point, that’s where most citizens would see it end.
You can bet that besides the US Pentagon, Saddam has also planned long and hard for an invasion. He will make it very difficult for us NOT to hit civilians. Weapons and munitions hidden in schools, hospitals, and homes. I don’t see airstrikes on those. Do you think he has learned nothing from Desert Storm? Fighting will not be in the desert wastes. He’ll have his soldiers in the cities fighting house to house in and around civilians. The locals will hide and protect their soldiers. Saddam has had a long time to prepare.
Picture it. Your marine platoon coming up on Bagdad. Snipers from buildings. People everywhere. Due to this, no air or artillery support. Fighting house to house, street to street. Casualties rising. Your buddy is dead. Days go by mostly under fire. All of a sudden, you see a 13 year old kid stick a gun in your face…
A little dramatic I agree, but a very possible scenario. Do US citizen’s have the stomach for it?
Saddam will make us look as bad as he can. Without UN or Allied support it won’t take much. CC is right. The Iraqi people won’t care why we’re there. All they’ll see is US soldiers with weapons. They’ll put 2 and 2 together. Who are they going to trust, Saddam or the invaders - be realistic. This is the war Saddam will fight. His terf, his rules. We are at a serious disadvantage. The Pentagon had better come up with something good. This is why the Gulf War ended the way and when it did. We need some opposition group to gain support to take over after any invasion. Considering we haven’t attacked Iraq proper yet after all this time, shows we don’t have it…
Deviant:Scripter - it is clear that the US “administration” is doing all that is noble to rebuild Afghanistan. Ask 10 US citizens if the over 750 million dollar price tag the President wants is OK with them. This is the point I’m making. Do US taxpayers like to nonchalantly hand over their hard earned money to foreign countries? Add on the cost of the military campaign. Double this amount for Iraq. Just in aid over 1.5 billion US taxpayer money to someone else! If you answer a quick “yes”, I’s say you don’t financially support yourself, let alone a family. This is what is important to the US people overall. Ask your family, friends, neighbors, co-workers, etc., etc. If you don’t believe this your kidding yourself. Ask those same ten US citizens how many of them think that this money could be used better to help AMERICANS! Noble help to foreign countries is one thing; food on the table is quite more on their minds.
I’ll say again (like in my post before last) that this is not my personal opinion. This is merely an observation made talking to family, friends, neighbors, co-workers, etc. here in New England. Ask people in your own part of America. I really don’t think you’ll find much variation. Do mothers, wifes, and children want their sons, husbands, and fathers in harm’s way again? I doubt it.
As for the Gulf War, we will not be liberating an invaded country this time. We will be the aggressor this time regardless of the motives behind it. If you think the Iraqi’s will just surrender their homes to us without a fight - your dreaming.
I remember Desert Storm quite well. I was in the US Navy at that time…
Deviant:Scripter - My point is clear. Do Americans care, beyond killing the terrorists, what happens to the Afghan people? Probably not. Do they care towns and villages are rebuilt? Do they care if the Afghan people affected by the fighting have proper medical attention and supplies (food / shelter)? Do Americans care if a stable, democratic government is established and maintained? No, they don’t. In Iraq, the situation will be worse. It won’t take much for Saddam to convince most Iraqi’s to resist an American invasion with their lives. If a foreign army marched into your home town, would you care why? This hypothetical army will preach a better government, economics, religion, way of life, etc. Were you happy before they arrived? Would you care why they were here? Kill the invaders, drive them out. It will be a patriotic Iraqi war to repell the invaders, bottom line. Quite obviously, the American administration will be looking for successor group/s. It would be a Vietnam scenario without them. There’s always someone looking to profit from the previous leader’s defiance from the world view. This is probably why we have not invaded already. Again, do Americans give a hoot what happens to the Iraqi’s - the statement “turn it into a parking lot” answers that question…
Americans want a quick and easy solution to all problems. Just take take out Iraq and make more “parking space”. They don’t want to deal with the aftermath of our actions. Afghanistan is old news. It’s almost to the point where no one cares. Didn’t we win that months ago ??? That would be the standard response. Raise Iraqi cities to the ground. Then what. What about all the dead and destroyed lives, the dying and suffering, the refugees, the political vaccuums, etc., etc. Americans don’t want to think about these things. Turn off the TV and forget about it. This is the mentality here in New England. Again, I do not endorse such feelings. Not everyone believes in this manner, but it staggers me to see how many do.
I know this is a little rough on my fellow Americans. It seems that no one really wants to deal with foreign policy until it affects us directly (9/11). Then, bomb 'em and it’s Miller Time. Back to our lives, our jobs, our houses, our kids, etc., etc. Never mind half a world away people live in war-torn areas, in poverty, with disease, starving…
Just close your eyes…
I think we can all take pride in our countries outside of the political motivations of our ruling administrations. I don’t really fit into one of the categories in the poll, either. I’m proud of the good the people of the US can do, fully knowing the bad the goes with it. 9/11 showed how Americans can pull together in a moment of crisis, we can take pride in that…
Wild2000 - Exactly. Matters of faith cannot be proven true or false. What “evidence” do you refer to when saying Christianity is based on it?
The Iraqi people will fight us to the last man, woman, and child. Kuwait was different. This time it’s their survival - Saddam or no Saddam. Casualties will run high, no doubts there. They will die for their homes and Allah…
Belief and faith are two separate things. I can say that I believe I have no faith. I still believe also that facts and evidence are outside the scope of this discussion. I’ll side with the previous poster, religion and God are a matter of faith…
Wild2000 - Your right. It would take quite a personal “miracle” to get me to aquire faith. I figure a long term “burning bush” conversation and a few tests from “God” and maybe, just maybe, I’d change my mind. I realize our endless debates seem to accomplish little. Quite on the contrary, all seem to be sharing information and thoughts we may not have access to otherwise. Friendly debates are healthy ones. We have achieved the “goal” of this forum. Our voices can be heard, freedom of speech…
Agreed, however the rest of the world will want Iraq’s hand in it before they’ll agree to an attack/invasion. You’ll have to convince Americans that their son’s, husband’s, and father’s lives that will be lost will be worth the final result.
Our country likes to play cop and referee. We attack only certain terrorist nations and not them all. Again, I don’t see US Marines in Northern Ireland!!!
It’s clear that Iraq poses no direct military threat (weapons of mass destruction included) to the US. The US will use the “Hitler Appeasement” analogy to fuel any propaganda towards an attack/invasion of Iraq. The US will also use 9/11 to persuade the US public towards such actions as well. I agree motivations will be mostly political. I believe they will be economic as well. Nothing gets the US economy going like a good war…
