I’m just catching up on these posts so apologies if I missed anything.

I’m not opposed to the changes proposed around cruisers and Battleships and I’m curious about how the game plays with more of them on the board. Although I’m not sure what the price point is that makes them more common. Air has the advantage of being relevant to both land and sea whereas naval has very limited relevance to land, although I suppose that is also an argument to change the relative pricing of naval units relative to air. And at least with BM the marine unit mitigates that somewhat.

For air, while I’m also not opposed to trying something I am more hesitant about reversing the relative costs of figs and tacs/bombers. Figs are definitely the most common buy but, unlike naval purchases, I do see all 3 bought regularly. And I think because figs are the defensive unit and tacs and bombers are offensive there is some logic to the current relative costs . The axis need to play offensively (and in my experience they are consequently more likely to buy tacs and bombers) and the allies need to play defensively for much of the game (and so primarily buy figs until late game if they have managed to go on the offensive) So making offensive units more expensive does help mitigate against the axis advantages and changing it the other way might impact game balance to the benefit of the axis.

I think it is a good idea to make sure that people don’t have too much trouble finding opponents to play. That is both in the interests of some players individually but it is also in our collective interest. If some players, and especially new players, have difficulty finding opponents, than we will have trouble keeping people in the league and getting new people to join.

I don’t think mismatched games are necessarily a problem. It may be less interesting for the better players but it is a good learning experience for newer players and helps them become more competitive in the long run.

At the same time, I don’t want to add to the work of those who manage the league. So I would support an ELO system if it can be implemented in a way that doesn’t add to Gamerman’s work.

If that is too complicated, another option is just to score tier 3 the same way as tier 2. M and some E ranked players would still lose score in those games, but they would lose less, and everyone else would still go up.

Also, its worth noting, with new players at least, that losses to E and M players increase their average. There is a very good chance that players who start out at tier 3 will end up at tier 1 or 2 by the end of the year, and the more losses they have to E and M ranked players the more likely that is. So there is less of a disincentive than might appear at first.

@amon-sul welcome back!

the majority is still BM but games of ptv and oob are pretty common too. Bids for BM have moved to around 20 lately (although I think that is a little high).

I’m not opposed to trying an ELO (or another) system either but would worry that the small sample size is going to mess it up more substantially. I do think past results should matter each new year (As far as I’m aware, in the current scoring, they just matter until someone has played 3 games and then their score is based on the outcome of the games played in the current year. So their effect is to increase the score of the opponent in the early games). And I also think we need a reset each year to ensure some variation in who gets to play in the league finals. A longer term ELO with the relatively small number of games played may make it harder for new (or much improved) players to break in.

My view is that if it isn’t (that) broke don’t fix it. I don’t doubt there are some issues with scoring. But we are a small amateur (and very niche) league with a small number of games played and with variation in the number of games played by player. Nothing is going to be perfect. And I don’t think changes in scoring will dramatically shift how the final standings look. Of course if we can use a method that is more streamlined, easier to use (not just for gamerman but for who comes after), I’m not opposed to that either. But the existing method of scoring doesn’t strike me as particularly onerous either.

And if we want to avoid having too many players ranked E or M one way to address it is to just to shift the thresholds where one crosses over. E could be set at 5 and M at 6 or higher for example and that would spread things out more.

@gamerman01 I think I know the big game of which you speak! And I agree that AA is underrated.

I’ll add that in large battles, even with the battle calculator average, adding AA (as long as they would be able to roll a die) is comparable to buying figs in terms of its impact. And since so many smaller attacks involve small numbers of land units supported by several air, having one AA in the mix really complicates the choices for the attacker.

That single AA in Caroline Islands has probably won some games for Japan.

@lmterrell welcome to A&A! As barnee says, triplea is a good way to play online and for free. But if you do want the boardgame itself, it probably just depends on what you are looking for. If you are new to this kind of boardgame or you want something that is lighter and quicker (games that take an evening rather than a few days) you are probably better off with the 1942 or 1941 versions, at least to start. The Europe and Japan 1940 games are a bit more complicated and they combine for a Global game. These ones require quite a time commitment though and games can last days.

I’ve been playing online for a bit so I’m a bit rusty on the physical versions of the games but that is my sense. And if you are looking for people to play against the online game and this site are a good resource.

I like Oysteilo’s choices except I would hesitate on the sub in 110, the inf in Yunnan, and the transport in 71.

Yunnan increases the chances for a Yunnan disaster for Japan, but Japan is almost always going to go for it and the most likely outcome is just China losing one more inf.

The transport is probably only useful if you are fairly sure you are going to hit the Italians first in Ethiopia. But I think they often have other priorities that would demand the other units needed.I suppose it can go to Persia to allow the India transport to go to the islands, but I think the islands are often a mistake on UK1.

The sub in 110 is useful because the naval base gives it range but it doesn’t add much to the defense since the German attack there is mostly air and because that is the one spot the Germans are definitely going to hit. 106 may be more useful for defense since it likely blocks that attack or forces the Germans to send 3 subs (in which case the sub can submerge and join the counter)

UK Europe is almost always the best bet for the bulk of the bid since that is the one ally that is certain to be at war in round 1, (so I agree with Oysteilo’s emphasis on that) but I might still consider adding to the pacific. More UK inf in the pacific, or a second ANZAC sub, or Art for China.

Also, the sub in 91 is for me a must, as it discourages an attack on that cruiser (which is an option for Germany if they ignore 111 or 106) and it threatens everywhere the German navy ends up plus the Italian destroyer in 96.

But I haven’t really played much OOB for a while (and never had a chance to play with a 50 bid) so I might be misjudging and identifying things that are more appropriate for BM.

Dawgs input is welcome as well. How the league determines playoffs should be a question that everyone who is playing in league can speak to, although I assume gamerman gets to make the final decision. In past years, multiple playoffs have been set up to include people below the top 8. The point is to find rules that are inclusive enough of the different preferences people have, so that people are not discouraged from participating.

@martin welcome to the league martin!
You can play either BM or OOB here, or other variants such as PTV. The issue is only being able to find opponents that want to play the version you want. More people now play BM here, so if you are not too committed to OOB you may have more luck finding a game if you are willing to play both. BM is fairly close to OOB, but with a little more complexity and a little more balanced. PTV is more substantially different, but I believe it is also still being workshopped.

It can sometimes be hard for new (and unranked) players to find a game right away so you might need some patience. If you don’t get a response in a day or two, it can be worth posting here again … and again. And also look for others posting as well and message them. You will likely have more luck (as a new and unranked player) with players that are lower in the rankings then higher.

It is worth reviewing the league rules and standings to see how they work while you wait for a game. And somewhere on this site, you should find explanations for BM and PTV if you are interested in those.

@oysteilo I did see that. It looks like quite an epic game. I think you are right that Andrew has the edge but you have made it pretty tough for him. I had some thoughts but want to save those for when the game is done.

@cwglee51 just reposted because I remembered your fig edit to Ukraine

TripleA Turn Summary: Russians round 7

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition

Game History

Round: 7

    Purchase Units - Russians
        Russians buy 9 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Russians
        1 armour moved from Vologda to Archangel
              Russians take Archangel from Germans
        1 armour moved from Archangel to Vologda
        2 infantry moved from Russia to Smolensk
        1 fighter moved from Russia to Smolensk
        1 fighter and 2 infantry moved from Russia to Bryansk
        1 tactical_bomber moved from Russia to Volgograd
        3 infantry moved from Samara to Volgograd
        1 armour moved from Samara to Tambov
              Russians take Tambov from Italians
        1 armour moved from Tambov to Samara
        1 infantry moved from Samara to Kazakhstan
              Russians take Kazakhstan from Germans
        1 armour moved from Egypt to Ethiopia
              Russians take Ethiopia from Italians

    Combat - Russians
        Battle in Bryansk
            Russians attack with 1 fighter and 2 infantry
            Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians roll dice for 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Bryansk, round 2 : 0/3 hits, 0.83 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Bryansk, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Bryansk, round 3 : 0/3 hits, 0.83 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Bryansk, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Bryansk, round 4 : 0/3 hits, 0.83 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Bryansk, round 4 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Bryansk
                Russians roll dice for 1 fighter and 1 infantry in Bryansk, round 5 : 2/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Bryansk, round 5 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Bryansk
            Russians win, taking Bryansk from Germans with 1 fighter and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
            Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
        Battle in Volgograd
            Russians attack with 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
            Germans defend with 1 factory_minor and 1 infantry
                Russians roll dice for 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Volgograd, round 2 : 1/4 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Volgograd, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Volgograd
            Russians win, taking Volgograd from Germans with 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
        Battle in Smolensk
            Russians attack with 1 fighter and 2 infantry
            Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians roll dice for 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Smolensk, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 0.83 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Smolensk, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Smolensk
            Russians win, taking Smolensk from Germans with 1 fighter and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry

    Non Combat Move - Russians
        1 fighter moved from Smolensk to Russia
        1 fighter moved from Bryansk to Russia
        1 tactical_bomber moved from Volgograd to Russia
        9 infantry moved from Russia to Samara
        2 infantry moved from Vologda to Samara
        1 artillery moved from Russia to Samara
        2 infantry moved from Russia to Samara
        1 submarine moved from 92 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
        1 mech_infantry moved from Egypt to Ethiopia

    Place Units - Russians
        9 infantry placed in Russia

    Turn Complete - Russians
        Russians collect 27 PUs; end with 27 PUs
        Trigger Russians 1 Lend Lease: Russians met a national objective for an additional 5 Optional[PUs]; end with 32 Optional[PUs]
        Objective Russians 2 Spread Of Communism: Russians met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 35 PUs
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Western Germany: 1 fighter
        EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to Ukraine: 1 fighter
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Germans regular : -1.00
Russians regular : -1.00

Savegame

TripleA Turn Summary: Germans round 18

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3

Game History

Round: 18

    Research Technology - Germans

    Purchase Units - Germans
        Germans repair damage of 1x factory_major, 6x factory_minor; Remaining resources: 77 PUs; 
        Germans buy 2 armour, 4 artilleries, 5 infantry, 7 mech_infantrys and 1 submarine; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Germans
        1 infantry moved from Kazakhstan to Caucasus

    Combat - Germans
        Battle in Caucasus
            Germans attack with 1 infantry
            British defend with 1 aaGun
                1 aaGun owned by the British lost in Caucasus
            Germans win, taking Caucasus from Russians with 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 5
            Casualties for British: 1 aaGun

    Non Combat Move - Germans
        3 infantry moved from Tambov to Volgograd
        3 mech_infantrys moved from Novgorod to Eastern Poland
        1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Urals to Russia
        1 fighter moved from Ukraine to Southern Italy
        1 armour and 6 mech_infantrys moved from Ukraine to Western Ukraine
        1 aaGun and 3 infantry moved from Ukraine to Western Ukraine
        1 infantry moved from Russia to Bryansk
        1 infantry moved from Russia to Tambov
        1 bomber moved from Volgograd to French Indo China
        8 infantry moved from Western Germany to France
        2 carriers and 1 destroyer moved from 113 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
        1 transport moved from 113 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
        1 bomber and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to Southern Italy
        3 fighters moved from Western Germany to Southern Italy
        1 submarine moved from 119 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 113 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Germany to Western Germany
        1 fighter moved from Volgograd to Western Ukraine
        2 armour and 4 mech_infantrys moved from Volgograd to Russia
        2 infantry moved from Norway to 112 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 112 Sea Zone to Western Germany

    Place Units - Germans
        1 submarine placed in 112 Sea Zone
        3 artilleries placed in France
        2 armour and 7 mech_infantrys placed in Western Germany
        1 artillery and 2 infantry placed in Russia
        3 infantry placed in Novgorod

    Turn Complete - Germans
        Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 2
            Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 97 Sea Zone. Rolls: 1,1,1,3,3,1,1,1
        Germans collect 64 PUs (2 lost to blockades); end with 64 PUs
        Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 Optional[PUs]; end with 69 Optional[PUs]
        Objective Germans 3 Control Caucasus: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 74 PUs
        Objective Germans 2 Control Novgorod Or Volgograd Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 15 PUs; end with 89 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

TripleA Turn Summary: Russians round 7

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition

Game History

Round: 7

    Purchase Units - Russians
        Russians buy 9 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Russians
        1 armour moved from Vologda to Archangel
              Russians take Archangel from Germans
        1 armour moved from Archangel to Vologda
        2 infantry moved from Russia to Smolensk
        1 fighter moved from Russia to Smolensk
        1 fighter and 2 infantry moved from Russia to Bryansk
        1 tactical_bomber moved from Russia to Volgograd
        3 infantry moved from Samara to Volgograd
        1 armour moved from Samara to Tambov
              Russians take Tambov from Italians
        1 armour moved from Tambov to Samara
        1 infantry moved from Samara to Kazakhstan
              Russians take Kazakhstan from Germans
        1 armour moved from Egypt to Ethiopia
              Russians take Ethiopia from Italians

    Combat - Russians
        Battle in Bryansk
            Russians attack with 1 fighter and 2 infantry
            Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians roll dice for 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Bryansk, round 2 : 0/3 hits, 0.83 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Bryansk, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Bryansk, round 3 : 0/3 hits, 0.83 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Bryansk, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Bryansk, round 4 : 0/3 hits, 0.83 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Bryansk, round 4 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Bryansk
                Russians roll dice for 1 fighter and 1 infantry in Bryansk, round 5 : 2/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Bryansk, round 5 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Bryansk
            Russians win, taking Bryansk from Germans with 1 fighter and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
            Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
        Battle in Volgograd
            Russians attack with 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
            Germans defend with 1 factory_minor and 1 infantry
                Russians roll dice for 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Volgograd, round 2 : 1/4 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Volgograd, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Volgograd
            Russians win, taking Volgograd from Germans with 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
        Battle in Smolensk
            Russians attack with 1 fighter and 2 infantry
            Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians roll dice for 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Smolensk, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 0.83 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Smolensk, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Smolensk
            Russians win, taking Smolensk from Germans with 1 fighter and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry

    Non Combat Move - Russians
        1 fighter moved from Smolensk to Russia
        1 fighter moved from Bryansk to Russia
        1 tactical_bomber moved from Volgograd to Russia
        9 infantry moved from Russia to Samara
        2 infantry moved from Vologda to Samara
        1 artillery moved from Russia to Samara
        2 infantry moved from Russia to Samara
        1 submarine moved from 92 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
        1 mech_infantry moved from Egypt to Ethiopia

    Place Units - Russians
        9 infantry placed in Russia

    Turn Complete - Russians
        Russians collect 27 PUs; end with 27 PUs
        Trigger Russians 1 Lend Lease: Russians met a national objective for an additional 5 Optional[PUs]; end with 32 Optional[PUs]
        Objective Russians 2 Spread Of Communism: Russians met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 35 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Germans regular : -1.00
Russians regular : -1.00

Savegame

@cwglee51 I assume from West Germany?

@cwglee51 lol. Sorry.

@cwglee51 nothing needs to move. Its just that one UK fig in 92 is on a US carrier not on a UK carrier. So on my next turn, it effectively has more range.

TripleA Turn Summary: French round 6

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition

Game History

Round: 6

    Purchase Units - ANZAC
        ANZAC buy 1 infantry and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 2 PUs; 

    Combat Move - ANZAC

    Non Combat Move - ANZAC
        1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from India to Burma
        1 infantry moved from New South Wales to 62 Sea Zone
        1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 62 Sea Zone to 45 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from 45 Sea Zone to Dutch New Guinea
              ANZAC take Dutch New Guinea from Dutch
        1 infantry moved from New South Wales to Queensland
        2 fighters moved from Caroline Islands to Korea
        3 submarines moved from 33 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
        1 cruiser and 2 submarines moved from 33 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone

    Place Units - ANZAC
        1 transport placed in 62 Sea Zone
        1 infantry placed in New South Wales

    Turn Complete - ANZAC
        ANZAC collect 10 PUs; end with 12 PUs
        Objective ANZAC 2 Control Strategic Islands: ANZAC met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 17 PUs

    Combat Move - French

    Non Combat Move - French
        1 infantry moved from French West Africa to Nigeria

    Turn Complete - French

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

@cwglee51 yeah that was there from the beginning. Its just because the fig could be on either carrier and teh default is that it is on its own that I needed to let you know. It does mean that the UK fig now has more range since the US carrier can move first.

@cwglee51 just wanted to make sure you saw my comment below around the UK fig is on the US carrier. If that would have impacted the Italy turn, and you didn’t see the note in time, we can consider it on a UK carrier as that would be the default assumption.