Posts made by dondoolee

@bongaroo:

What happens if that Italian fleet is destroyed before a Japanese CV arrives?  No way to use those ground units in Africa now where Italy needs to be making money and just as importantly, costing the UK IPCs.  Your stuck with 2 infantry and an artillery a turn to reinforce france with or more likely attempt to hold Italy with since there is no fleet to cover you against a landing.

Playing as the Allies, I would take full advantage of a weak Italian fleet as soon as possible.

An Italian fleet is a great investment.  Fleets are better on the defensive in general with the exception of subs, so getting a CV and extra fighter into SZ14 is a top priority for Italy with me.

How are you going to sink the allied fleet by turn 3? If it is on t1 it is before Italy can do anything anyway so that is a moot point.  If it is T2 then Britain bought only airforce which would mean that is one less turn Germany has to worry about the Brits and can focus more on Russia.  America only has 2 bombers so that’s not going to do anything. If it is T3 is still has to be sunk by Britain as the Jap carrier would be there by America’s turn.  Not only that you can probably move the navy to the black sea or something to keep them out of harms way for 1 turn. There is no way Britain can sink the Italian navy with ships and have a sustainable invasion force to drop in Europe. You are putting youself out of place for no good reason and giving Germany an easier time to kill Russia.  The more the Allies screw around in the Med/Africa the more time the Axis has to kill Russia.

Plus if Italy builds a fleet the Allies can just choose to ignore it.  Maybe send in an American suicide Tranny or 2 to get units in Africa.  If they did then Italy just wasted money for no good reason.  I could however see the point of a second transport (maybe even a third) so one can double bombard the cauc to oblivion. Other than that I would only build navel units on special occasion.

And fleets are not better on defense than Infantry.  1 Infantry unit costs 3 ans defends at 2, 1 destroyer costs 8 and defends at 2.

If your going to lose Italy next turn I see no point in sending all of my ships out of place.  Even if I had the option to take and hold I would still take France for the easier movement PLUS you get to threaten both Germany and Italy after that.  Also very I think it’s very important that you are sending the Axis one space further west when you invade France, which is one space further away from Russia and that is a very very encouraging thing for the Allies.

Sending forces in the Med w/o being able to do game breaking damage seems like it would usually end badly. Chances are you may even end up having to face a pointless navel battle with a potentially nasty Italian fleet too, so If either Germany or Italy built airplains your convoy may be weak enough for them to hit you.  Heck, I would rather invade Norway than Italy.

I almost always play no NOs but I think it would be the same either way.

I just tried this in our last game, and it worked well (though luck was NOT on the axis side) wonder if anyone else had success with it.

I moved all 4 Russians in China, and moved all 7 Russians on Buy.
I moved my Aussie navy to NZ where it linked up with the US navy.
This really made Japan ineffective (to be fair though, Japan really had awful luck, plus it pulled all of its troops out of Mancheria and let the Russians just walk in there).

The game was a no tech no NO game.

I am of the very strong opinion that Italy should not build a fleet unless very specific situations call for it.  There may be a need for a well placed destroyer tranny, or sub for example.  Like I said Japan can send a fully loaded carrier over there in 3 turns and still have money to compensate for the loss of navy if it needs to.  This makes a poor Italy more focused on building much more important (and more cost effective) ground units.  Other than that the only reason Italy would be building something is if it is already rich, and if that’s the case the game is probably looking very bright for the Axis  or very out of the ordinary game anyway.

@Cmdr:

Problem is, if America abandons the Pacific, there is a great chance that Japan will take W. USA for keeps without a significant (read 2 or 3 rounds of dedicated investment) investment into preventing it.  And with a Japan bored out of their mind from inactivity, they have the time and resources to blow on trying for it, or at the least, threatening it with all their extra equipment.  America just doesn’t have the extra equipment that Japan does. (3 Carriers, Battleship, Cruiser, they probably put some more units in the water as well to prepare for the American attack that never came.)

In a no NO game (which is our norm) I tend to be about 60/40 in favour of the pacific.  In a NO game about 80/20 in favour of the pacific.  America has about 2 turns where they out produce Japan, so that helps.  I agree 100% Japan can do relativly little and gain a lot of ground while at the same time being able to directly threaten America. On a side note America in the Pacific is one of the few useful times I can see using submarines.

Please state if you use NO’s or not, and if that effects your strat.

I don’t even usually get the chance to send my transport east due to a Jap carrier in striking distance.  All I can do is send the transport west on the first turn which has little to no use thus far.  I’m wondering if there is a way the US can draw the Japanese navy out safely so the Aussies have time to maybe take back indonesia or head towrds Africa.

I usually try to get a small pipeline going with Russia, I think it is a marginal help in the long run as long as one does not over commit there. I can even manage to get a little Russian air support once in awhile.  Russia attacking MAN I think is a bad idea, sometimes I even try to draw the Russians into doing it to take that stack out turn 2, but I do like massing them all In BURY on T1 the japs can take it at heavy cost/ commitment but it hurts japan in the long run very badly.  After t1 I move them towards Moscow

We won twice in a row with the allies today (a first).  1 Time was even whith the utter destruction of the navy, but the Brit airplane survived both german attacks on EGY. Losing that fighter is rough, when it dies it means the forces in India and Jordan get killed usually before they can attack Africa or defend the Cau.  I have tried the SAF complex about four times with mixed results.  It can’t even be considerd if germany takes EGY, I think.

I still hesitate to build a factory, Britain has to concern itself with a guarantee on protecting it’s transport efforts, which means for 3-4 turns the UK may make 1 attack at most (In NOR).  I do not understand how the allies can spend time and money in africa and expect to win.  The only way they can contend it is with the Indian forces which is fine, but sometimes they are despratly needed in the Cauc.

1. Can anybody use the Aussies effectivly on a consistant level?  Or are they kind of stuck there unless an opportunity presents itself.

2)How often do you send the Ruskies to china? Is it worth it or does it sap russia of much needed manpower

Germany Does not always take Egypt.  But about 50% of the time it clears the airplane there, which sometimes mean the Brits that run from India/Jordan to Persia can get killed by the Japs.

What germany uses on the brits is 2 subs 1 fig (from NOR) on the bat.  1 bomber on des/tran off canada.  2 fig on the cruiser/des by gibralter, this attack is the one where I may end up with 1 cruiser left (this helps a lot).

The 1st turn Britain does nothing but build Navy. 1 carrier for sure than any other combo of surface ships.  Usually (maybe not the 1st turn) Germany buys 1 airplane a turn, maybe even a bomber and by turn 3 or 4 that usnsinkable navy becomes vulnerable, plus it may be having to deal with double SBRs on already ltd funds. I usually have to worry about 2 bombers 5 fig and up to 2 subs (this can vary).  This is not as big a deal if England gets spared at least 1 transport and America can help it out a little, but we just don’t get that luxury that often with Japan being able to grow, and in a way keep the US in check every turn.

The real point being England/US can’t consider doing a thing until turn 4, and it seems almost inevitable that Russia is going down turn 5 (by this time not only are they outnumberd by german tanks, they also have to contend with the Italians who have a decent army amssed on their doorstep by now and the Japanese with a factory producing 3 tanks in India and a stack of airplanes).

Why not just send a Jap carrier over there?  It can get there by turn 3, plus build Navy as needed where Italy is kind of straped for cash.

@Cmdr:

No, I have found that Karelia, if it falls, does so only long enough for Germany to get the 7 IPC for it. (2 for the land, 5 for the National Objective) after that either Russia or one of the other two allies liberates it.

My bad, I didn’t see you said with NO’s.  The couple times I played like that it did seem as if Germany had more money than it knew what to do with (and I think that may have been round 2), if that is the case in a normal NO game, than yes it would be very tempting to build a factory.  Egypt (if you are lucky enough to score it) would be the safest and could wreck havok on Russias tail, but still only 2 ipc’s.  As far as Francs goes in a game with NO’s can you build 16 units, that seems like quite a bit.  Factorin in that it is now a nice bombing target and I don’t know if you will, plus your building troops further away from Russia which can’t be good.  It seems like Poland is the best bet (other than maybe EGY) if you really are having supply problems.

However, if you can’t hold Karelia, if you put double (or maybe even triple with the Japs) pressur on the Cauc how quickly can that be secured.  It can’t be enforced so easily by the allies (maybe some Brits from Inda) plus you can bombard with Italy and bomb it with germany.

By turn 3 don’t you usually have Karellia? that’s 2 extra units there.  Buying factories with Germany scares me, it feels like I waste a turn, and time is not on Germany’s side.  I don’t see how you could build a factory T1 as it would give Russia a turn to breath.

This seems to be about par for all of our games on turn 3.  We play w/o NO’s no tech

On turn 1: the entire UK navy is destroyed, Karelia lives, The airplane in africa is about 50/50, China loses everything but Yunnan, US and UK pacific fleets sunk minus Australia, The forces from India/ Syria withdraw and meet in Persia (sometimes with the airplane) but it is not a significant enough force to counter attack the Japs in India. Germany builds tanks and throws almost everything at Russia, Italy sends a toknen force in a barren Africa and sends the rest at the Russian southern front, and build 2 tanks. The German Bomber can now threaten transports on the Eastern US, and most if not all fighters can strike all but 1 UK sea zone.  America has no choice but to invest in at least 1 destroyer to prevent getting bombed

Turn 2: Germany builds 1 airplane and then tanks it can not be invaded anywhere from the West this turn, creates dead zones on Russian front has about an 11 tank stack though it starts to maybe look a little thin on art/inf now.  Russia may take 1 or 2 territories back from Germany it has forces in Cauc/Mos/Arch as well as maybe a coupl inf sneaking into China and the 7 man group close to Japan. Japan takes all of china except Chi, walks into Buy and India, takes Phil it is now focusing on asia while simultaneously threatining Alaska.  The UK may be able to dump troops in Nor but not likely it buys more transports and guys the force in Persia usually goes to the very threatend Cauc.  Italy expands a little more freely in Africa while having 3 or 4 tanks and a plane that can puncture a hole in any weak gaurded Russian defence so Russia can now only field 2 armies of any size in fear of a sucker punch.  America has done everything at this point ignore the japs alomst completly (bad idea), build more capital ships on 2 theaters now, or just build bombers, amongst other things.

Turn 3: Germany buys more tanks and an airplane, sometimes this airplane will force the UK to invest in more money on a capital ship (depending on how the breaks went), it now choses the weaker of the 2 territories to threaten either the Cau or Moscow and throws all its tanks there Germany seems poised to take Russia already while the UK and US are almost completley grounded, Turn 4 may very well be inevitable, Africa has been destroyed already with marginal effort and Japan while huge has not even really begun to factor in the game yet, the UK or the US can not do ANYTHING for at least 3 turns, and by turn 4 Russia may be able to hold but on turn 5 it’s over. Japans south Pacific navy may have taken Australia by this point, either way it is close to the US now.

The UK building an entire navy from scratch and being grounded for 3 to 4 turns is painful, all it can do is stay holed up while its territories get eaten away, The US meanwhile can’t do anything in Europe until turn 3 or 4 either and if it is not careful it get shellacked by the Japs.  And the double punch of Italy and Germany on Russia is brutal.  I just don’t see how the allies can recover.

Russia has built everything from all inf to buying a mix with 2 fighters, to going tank crazy.  The UK doesn’t have a lot of options but we tried a factory in south africa to spice things up(suprisingly not an awful idea, if germany keeps the plane in Egy alive). Every game that has been won or close for the Allies is where Britain has at least SOME navy and the fighter left from Egypt  The US is a quagmire, we have tried everything with that too.

So far it is the Axis 16, the Allies 3, draws 1