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    Posts made by dIfrenT

    • RE: On the Existence of "God"

      Quote:
      … Religion is a system of works. Since a philosophy is a “system of values adopted by an individual, group, etc.” (New International Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary of the English Language) or “the general laws that furnish the rational explanation of anything” (same Dictionary) Hinduism could be considered either one. Semantics.

      Call it semantics, then let me call it faith-arrogance .
      Why does Christianity qualify as a religion, whereas Hinduism doesn’t?
      (And i don’t really get what you mean by “system of works”)

      A “system of works” is the things people do to achieve something. In this case it is the things they do to reach either heaven or the highest spiritual state, like nirvana. So in a non-spiritual sense, you could compare it to a businessman doing things to reach the top of the ladder. I’m sorry if I implied that Hinduism doesn’t qualify, but frankly I don’t see how you inferred that from my statement. It is a religion.

      At least the ones who do believe in God have the humbleness to admit that they can’t be sure he’s out there, but it’s safer to side with believing in a God than not.

      Excuse me as I make myself an exception. I am ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that there is a God. This is where I differentiate between faith and science. Faith is where my convictions lead me to be sure that there is a God. Science also brings me to this conclusion, but I can’t scientifically prove it. I know that’s confusing. I’ll try to explain it better later if I can, but right now I can’t find a better way to put it. Science can just as easily be taken to point toward evolution, but there are infinite ways to explain away its discrepancies (did I spell that right?), and more keep coming up.
      So call me prideful and arrogant, but I KNOW that there is a God.

      I know I just opened up another whole can of worms, but oh well. I guess Janus and I could be called the “extremes” of both sides. :) Although maybe Janus won’t want to have anything in common with me. :wink:

      “For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.” (I Corinthians 1:18, King James Version)

      “But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do engender strifes.” (II Timothy 2:23, KJV)

      posted in General Discussion
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      dIfrenT
    • RE: On the Existence of "God"

      ok jazz, first, get it right. i am not arguing that there is no religion, that is absurd, there clearly is religion, look around. i am arguing against the existence of god, something related, but distinct.
      second, my opening line was called a joke, maybe you didnt find it funny, but dont get bent out of shape about it.
      third, if you find my thread annoying, dont read it. nobody forced you to read it, so dont.
      finally, i am not looking for proof on the existence of god, one way or the other. like many other posters on this thread have said, proof is all but impossible to provide. i am simply challenging the existence of a diving being, in a forum for open discussion.

      Oooh, are we getting just a little bit defensive here? :) :wink:

      difernT said: Quote:
      One could reverse the question and ask you: “How can anyone be so foolish as to not believe in a divine being?” To use what I consider a somewhat weak statement that i haven’t found a better way of saying: “If we’re wrong, we lose nothing. If you’re wrong, you lose everything.” If I’m wrong, I still have no afterlife. If you’re wrong, you spend eternity in Hell.

      I dont think you should be arguing on the existence of God if you believe in God simply as a way of covering yourself on the chance he exists. unless you are just playing devil’s advocate. in which case, that argument is implying that i should believe in god just to cover my a**.

      if you noticed i called it a “weak statement.” and that’s why i called it weak. God isn’t a way to just cover your behind. Generally speaking, people realize that the things they do wrong are the reason they are condemned to Hell. I think that it’s generally known that life is made up of opportunities and the choices/decisions that go with them. If someone goes to Hell it’s because they choose not to believe what Christ did. They choose to go to Hell.

      dIfrenT wrote:
      “If we’re wrong, we lose nothing. If you’re wrong, you lose everything.” If I’m wrong, I still have no afterlife. If you’re wrong, you spend eternity in Hell."

      This is what i would call “religion for wimps” Even then: If you are wrong, you spend your next 15 lifes as some invertebrate, while i will be in Nirvana by then …

      Really? I see it the opposite way. I don’t think that people who willingly die for their faith are wimps. It’s just the opposite. And, I realize that my knowledge is simplistic, but isn’t karma where good actions make good karma and vice versa? I haven’t grasped the more complicated side. In that case, if as a Christian, my focus is pleasing God by doing the right (or good) thing, I have good karma and move up in the cycle of samsara. However, as I said, Christianity shouldn’t be a way to cover your butt. I really believe that Christ died to pay for my sins.

      Funny that you don’t even allow it the status of a religion.
      Did all the people before JC, or before Abraham go to hell? Do all christians go to hell because they don’t follow the upgrade "Monotheism V3.1 “Islam” "?

      Call it what you want. Religion is a system of works. Since a philosophy is a “system of values adopted by an individual, group, etc.” (New International Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary of the English Language) or “the general laws that furnish the rational explanation of anything” (same Dictionary) Hinduism could be considered either one. Semantics.

      Abrahams works were “counted unto him for righteousness.” Before Christ’s death I’m sure you’ve figured out that the way to Heaven was based on works - following God’s mandates on sacrifices and stuff. After Christ, it’s based on faith in the fact the He died on the cross, was buried, and resurrected three days later. He ascended into Heaven to sit at the Father’s right hand.

      You seriously believe 4 billion people are going to hell becuase they are simple misguided in you mind? Even if some of them have had religous experiences that surpass yours and have convinced them that their religion is true. I could not believe in a god that would do that, it seems cold and heartless. A cold and heartless god is not really something I’d want to believe in.

      Yes. You can be convinced the earth is flat until you see satellite pictures. Even then you could call it a fabrication. And surely you don’t believe that you can always have it the way you want. Even I’m not naive enough to believe that.

      As much as I would like to elaborate, I need to be on my way to work.

      posted in General Discussion
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      dIfrenT
    • RE: On the Existence of "God"

      Excuse me, please, for what will probably become a long response post.

      How can anyone belief in so foolish a concept as a divine being?

      One could reverse the question and ask you: “How can anyone be so foolish as to not believe in a divine being?” To use what I consider a somewhat weak statement that i haven’t found a better way of saying: “If we’re wrong, we lose nothing. If you’re wrong, you lose everything.” If I’m wrong, I still have no afterlife. If you’re wrong, you spend eternity in Hell.

      the Big Bang theory postulates a singulartity being present before existence as well

      I’ve met people who would agree with you. Yet you admit (at least from what I gather b/c you may not be admitting anything) that both take faith/belief/opinion.

      Many times, this is counterpointed by a statement something like “God is universal, we believe differently in the same being” or something like that. Now i have a problem with that. That is first of all, too easy.

      I have a problem with that too. It is too easy, but IMO your explanation is too easy as well. I believe that there is only ONE way to the ONE true God. That’s through Jesus Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. That cannot be defined as easy because it offends too many people.

      How could it be the same God, if christians believe in Heaven and Hell, and Hindus believe in reincarnation?

      It’s not the same God. Jesus Christ is God, and reincarnation is a wrong philosophy.

      For example, you have christianity. Within that, there is Catholocism, Orthodox, and Protestant. Under protestant, there are too many denominations to go into. All of these denominations of Christianity all believe in the divinity of Christ, but disagree on the finer points. Some are legitametly different denominations, but others, like Episcopalian to Catholic are basically identical.

      That’s true, but you just said that they all agree on one point: “the divinity of Christ.” Funny that that’s the one thing the agree on, huh?

      I believe in God for all the bad stuff.

      An immature attitude. I mean no offense. If you want a scapegoat you can choose anything, obviously. You could choose your best friend, but at least with him/her you would know that you should acknowledge the good things they do.

      Well, perhaps it seems absurd to you (which it obviously does) that there would be a God out there. However, I challenge you to disprove it.

      From a scientific viewpoint, you can do neither. You can’t taste, touch, see, smell, or hear either the chemicals or God (these days anyway b/c that comes through the Bible).

      Interesting argument CC, except for one thing, there is no god, and you are wrong.

      I can’t resist, Janus. :wink: You have an interesting argument, except for one thing, there IS a God (only one, in fact) and you are wrong.

      Does anyone else see the irony in his statement based on his previous quote?

      Yes.

      posted in General Discussion
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      dIfrenT
    • RE: Hispanic History Month(The #2 Minority)

      Fine, I’ll let you have a Hispanic history month…

      …as soon as you let me have a white (or caucasian) history month.

      Ooooh. Works for me. :roll: The way I see it, we wouldn’t have as many race problems if people would get over having a National-whatever-history-month. We can celebrate our cultures, fine. But these months only hinder a national unity.

      Speaking of Hispanics (and don’t accuse me of being racist because I am one) I went to JCPenney today and I heard more people speaking Spanish than I heard speaking English. I’m so glad I’m in my fourth year of Spanish. It’s almost necessary to speak it now (at least to eavesdrop) :D I think that whites and Hispanics are going to be competing for majority in California in the near future.

      Anyhow, race is overrated. Let’s get over ourselves and be AMERICANS. That is if you’re not ashamed of it. I’m 100% PROUD OF IT, BABY!!!

      posted in General Discussion
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      dIfrenT
    • RE: Again, not on forums a bit

      I know what you mean about the AP tests Yanny. I took two this week (the 5th and the 8th). English and Calculus AB. Fortunately, I will never have to take another one. :D

      posted in General Discussion
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      dIfrenT
    • RE: I'm gone

      have fun cc.l i’m going to study to be a doctor too. hopefully i’ll get to travel for education. :)

      posted in General Discussion
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      dIfrenT
    • RE: Fun History test

      I got William C. Westmoreland.

      Leadership Attributes:

      General Westmoreland was generally a careful strategist. In Vietnam, he followed a conservative strategy, advocating a war of attrition against the Viet Cong. Westmoreland normally allowed no operations by units smaller than the battalion, and he insisted on strong artillery support. Westmoreland was more a warrior than diplomat. He found it difficult to tread the fine line of public ambivalence to the Vietnam War. Personally, Westmoreland was brave in battle. During World War II, he often scouted ahead of the guns; while doing so in Sicily, his jeep was hit but he escaped injury.

      Cool site.

      posted in General Discussion
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      dIfrenT
    • RE: Cloning….

      Wow. This is interesting. BTW, I think you guys are crazy. You and your Canada jokes. :)

      I don’t agree with cloning humans. Points about how genetics could be screwed up even more because of the clones being from old DNA are good. But another argument that could come up is that we could take these defects out. Fine on the surface, but removing these defects could make future generations of clones more vulnerable to disease because their bodies have not strengthened their immune systems. An entire race of clones could be destroyed by one rampant disease.
      More importantly, one species produces offspring of the same species, correct? Therefore, the stemcells of humans would create more humans (clones or not, they are still homo sapiens). To rear a “clone” simply to “harvest” it is inhumane.
      wrt overpopulation. i think it’s to hyped up. if it’s crowded where you are…move. And if you think forceful measures for de-population should be employed (as in systematically kill “extra” people) I have only one more thing to say.

      You first.

      posted in General Discussion
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      dIfrenT
    • RE: Stimulating Commentary on France and Germany

      France is entirely responsible for our very existance.

      They are not entirely responsible. Saying this takes away from the courage and sacrifice of the men who fought for American independence. Also, many of British people themselves weren’t altogether for the war. It wasn’t exactly popular in England. True, the French did help - like Lafayette - but it wasn’t all from the goodness of their hearts. They didn’t like the way England had a huge empire, and a free America would open up new trade markets.

      For example, at my school we have pep rally competitions between the grades. My class had never won a single one, and we’re seniors now. This year we got our act together and really worked for the spirit and motivation to win, and we did. But some people would say the staff rigged the competition. I resent it because it’s like saying we didn’t work our butts off to earn it :evil: The judges can’t mess up the point system, especially when the whole school is looking on.

      That’s what attributing the existence of the USA to France is like to me. Those men who worked their butts off to make this country free don’t deserve to have their work entirely credited to someone else.

      posted in General Discussion
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      dIfrenT
    • RE: DIfrenT's Disarmament Term Paper

      Thanks. And you weren’t bored?

      posted in General Discussion
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      dIfrenT
    • DIfrenT's Disarmament Term Paper

      It’s really long, so I won’t be surprised if I don’t get any responses for a while. If you do finish and don’t get terribly bored - thanks. :)
      Oh, most of my info was taken from one book, unfortunately. It’s called Fortress America by William Greider. It was from 1999 I believe, and it was the only book I could use facts from cuz my teacher put a 15-year limit on the age of the information.

      The disarmament debate began with the bombing of Pearl Harbor. “The shock of Pearl Harbor left a political conviction that the United States must never be caught flatfooted again.”1 At the end of World War II, the race began in earnest. On August 6, 1945, the United States dropped the first atomic bomb on Hiroshima, Japan. It signaled the end of World War II and the beginning of the Cold War. While the world was trying to solve its problems by calm diplomatic negotiations, each country was trying to ensure its own security by developing weapons – nuclear or otherwise. In the United States of America, it began a series of changes in politics and in the economy, and it had a serious effect on the people of America. The Gulf War in 1990 gave all sides – the politicians, the Pentagon, and the weapons industry (collectively called the “Iron Triangle”2) – more justification for manufacturing arms. However, after the end of the Gulf War and the dissolution of the Union of Socialist Soviet Republics (USSR), the United States never demobilized its troops. Disarming the country seemed to be the obvious result, but the “Iron Triangle” insisted that the United States needed to stay prepared and that countless people would suddenly be unemployed. Next, on September 11, 2001, the World Trade Center Towers in New York were attacked, and a “war on terrorism” ensued. The question became, “Which side of the debate was justified by this? Would the attack have been prevented by demobilization and disarmament, or did staying prepared make the United States more capable of its current actions?”
      The Cold War era was known especially for its worldwide arms race. The United States was wary of the threat the USSR posed to it. The USSR was actively involved in developing new technology and weapons for its use, and the United States was not going to let itself be caught unaware. The Pentagon contracted designers for new weapons and technology during the Cold War, and many of the design ideas from that time have been newly produced, including the F-22 Fighting Falcon and the coming Joint Strike Fighter (JSF). “The F-22 was conceived and designed in the 1980s to meet the Soviet threat that Pentagon planners projected for the mid-1990s. And so it will, despite the awkward fact that the Soviet Union no longer exists.”3 The arms race was justified in the Americans’ minds as necessary for their well-being. On the other hand, after the fall of the USSR in 1991, the United States’ arms manufacturers did not reduce spending on or production of weapons even though the Pentagon cut back on its purchases of new arms. Instead, the arms industries began exporting these weapons with the United States government’s permission. Their justification was that they are selling them only to “friendly” countries, and if they do not sell, it someone else will.
      Bob Paulson gives a concise summary of the industry rationale: ‘If we don’t sell to them, will the French? Yes. If they buy our weapons, will we exercise more control over them? Possibly. Are we putting machine guns in the hands of some savages? Perhaps. But someone will if we don’t.’4

      At the same time, many manufacturers found that they could no longer maintain their business, so they merged with other companies. These larger companies sold as many of their munitions as they could to other countries, including the F-16. Since they sold nearly up-to-date weaponry, they went to the Pentagon to persuade them to hire more weapons designers and buy more technologically advanced ordnance. With the help of these businesses, the United States, essentially, entered an arms race with itself [footnote as Greider’s idea]. Michael Oden confirmed this fact,
      ‘A Lockheed Martin official recently testified that the U.S. has to make a multibillion-dollar commitment to the F-22 to combat aircraft such as the U.S.-made F-15 and F-16….This argument suggests that, with the fall of the Soviet Union, we are effectively engaging in an arms race with ourselves.’5

      In addition, other countries wondered what possible motivation the United States had to build more weapons when it was already the “superpower” of ordnance technology. These countries became increasingly more nervous and felt that they must increase their own supplies of weapons. This was evidenced when India launched a test of its nuclear bomb in 1998. Seeing this as a threat to it, Pakistan launched its own nuclear bomb “test.” In order to find out how Pakistan, a non-friendly country, had obtained this sort of weaponry, one needed only to look toward China. Of course, since the admittance of China into the United States’ good graces, it had been receiving some weapons aid from the United States. The arms industry did not take responsibility. The spending of foreign countries on weapons since 1992 has increased more than their own economies. For example, “defense spending by Latin American nations has increased by 35 percent…while their economies have grown by 22 percent.”6 Obviously, the arms race helped the United States and its citizens through the hard times of the Cold and Gulf Wars, but the degree of its usefulness diminished.
      Maintaining arms was economically advantageous for several reasons. During World War II, the United States built countless numbers of arms manufacturing plants for the arms industry, and it did not charge rent on any of the buildings because “the contractor would simply add that rental cost to the price for new planes.”7 This kept costs for the weapons down, meaning that the Pentagon could get more for the same amount without terribly overspending its budget. As a result of the increased manufacturing, many new jobs were created. The production of arms also gave America’s economy enough of a boost to take it out of the Great Depression. In fact, the new weapons production increased America’s economy by seventy-five percent.8 Jobs were created by the thousands. For example, Air Force Plant Four at Fort Hood, Texas, was built five months after the attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941. It had “thirty thousand employees at peak production”9 during World War II. This peak was surpassed in the 1980s during the Reagan administration when it increased to thirty-one thousand employees.10
      Unfortunately, these government-owned plants do not pay rent when there is not a war to fund. After World War II, the government bought “fewer weapons, [and it] pays much more for each one.”11 At the same time, the companies that used the plants tried to keep them at full capacity while there is not as much to produce, and the government paid. This becomes a waste of money due to a lack of efficiency. Bob Paulson, a defense industry consultant, summarized this basic problem. Paulson said,

      ‘The CEO at Lockheed Martin needs to build a new fighter plane. He’s got all of these factories, and none of them is full. So where does he put the work? Ideally, ignoring the politics, the CEO would like to put all of the work in one or two of those factories and close the others so that, over time, he will wind up with 70-80 percent utilization and save a lot of money.’12

      Politicians would no longer support “LockMartin” though because it would be taking jobs from their constituents. Paulson further stated, “ ‘…Lockheed Martin will have to put the bulk of the work in one place or the other. That means they’ve got to tell one of those delegations – Texas or Georgia – the bad news pretty soon.’ ”13 The author of Fortress America, William Greider, declared, “If LockMartin does find a way to keep both Texas and Georgia happy, the rest of the country must find a way to pay for it.”14 Taxpayers paid for the wasteful spending of the “Iron Triangle.”
      In 1991, the USSR dissolved, so many of the arms producers left the business or merged with larger contractors. Employment was reduced by forty percent.15 General Dynamics, operator of Air Force Plant Four, sold its business to Lockheed. Lockheed merged with Martin Marietta two years later and became Lockheed Martin.16 After all the merges, the United States was left with three major contracting firms: Lockheed Martin (“LockMartin”), “McBoeing”, and RayHughes (or HughesRay). Each makes $22 billion, $15 billion, and $11 billion, respectively. A few smaller firms exist, but the nearest competitor made almost $8 billion less than RayHughes. They made this money by working together on government deals. Each contractor had its “turn” making something for the Pentagon, depending on which one is located in the most strategic political state. The contractors also made different components of the same thing. For example, “LockMartin” owned thirty-three percent of Air Force Plant Four’s F-22 airframe manufacturing, but when General Dynamics sold Air Force Plant Four to Lockheed Martin, their share was augmented by another thirty-three percent. McBoeing owned another thirty-three percent, and RayHughes manufactures the F-22 radar. In essence, the three firms rid themselves of major competition, even amongst themselves. Consequently, the Pentagon had to pay more money for the same weapon. Jacques S. Gansler, former vice president of The Applied Science Corporation (TASC), commented, “ ‘The cost per plane will rise two to one over past decades as this process continues.’ ”17
      Obviously, these three sections of the “Iron Triangle” played against each other, but the Pentagon seemed to take the greatest hits. While the politicians and the industries were trying to please each other, the cost for weapons was steadily increasing, and the budget of the Pentagon stayed the same. The politicians saw no reason to increase it. The responsibility did not lie solely with Congress either. “…The Pentagon and Congress …declined to cancel any major weapons systems…despite rising costs and dwindling orders.”18 Redundancy became another problem because the Pentagon also wanted to be “prepared to fight two major regional wars at once.”19 Fort Hood is America’s largest military base with about 43,000 people, “forty percent of the U.S. Army’s combat power”20, and almost 200,000 acres of empty prairie reserved for weapons tests, war games, etc. The “forty percent combat power” included the M-1 Abrams main battle tank that was instrumental in the defeat of Iraq in the Gulf War. These tanks were “fully upgraded with the latest, most versatile electronics…,”21 although it was unnecessary, and they were renamed M-1A2 Abrams. No other country in the world had the technology used on the M-1 Abrams, but the Pentagon still ordered upgrades. It could have saved that technology for later, but Congress and the Pentagon gave the weapons makers permission to export the weapons. It was then necessary for America to keep ahead of her own technology. Hence, the arms race against herself. Fort Hood also had High-Mobility Multi-purpose Wheeled Vehicles (HMMWV or “Humvees”), Heavy Expanded Mobility Tactical Trucks (HEMTTs or “Hemets”), and Heavy Equipment Transporter Systems (HETS). The HETS and “Hemets” support the M-1 Abrams tanks on the battlefield. The HETS also transport the M-1A2 Abrams because as Sergeant Rolan notes, “ ‘Its ridiculously expensive to move these things…’ ”22 These tanks used almost two gallons of fuel per mile, and if totaled with repair bills, the M-1A2 Abrams cost $147 per mile to operate (p. 8). The Pentagon could have paid these bills more easily if it had not bothered with the upgrade. In addition, the Pentagon found a very destructive way to be rid of their old tanks. They gave them to museums and some “friendly nations”23 free or drastically discounted. They even “dumped one hundred old Sherman M-60s into Mobile Bay off the Alabama coast to form artificial reefs for fish in the Gulf of Mexico.”24 The Pentagon spent billions of dollars in the 1980s to modernize the Army’s equipment, and in the 1990s they gave away older models of virtually the same things. The Federation of American Scientists (FAS) conducted a study of this in 1997. Lora Lumpe and Paul F. Pineo of the FAS said, “ ‘The services appear to be giving away still useful equipment in order to justify procurement of new weaponry.’ ”25 The Navy and Air Force wasted similar amounts of money for the same reason – redundancy. The F-15 had “no peer anywhere in the world,”26 but the Pentagon said it was obsolete. “LockMartin” was contracted to produce the new F-22s, which cost $161 million each. The Air Force ordered about 438 for a total of around $70 billion. The Navy contracted “McBoeing” for an $80 billion commitment to buy 1,000 F/A-18 E/F fighter-bombers. The Army spent $45 billion to obtain 1,292 new Commanche armed reconnaissance helicopters, and these three branches split the $76 billion tab for precision-guided bombs. The armed services promised to buy 2,978 JSFs, set to be produced no earlier than the year 2008. The total expenditures exceeded $300 billion27, after the defense budget was reduced to $250 billion.28 The Secretary of Defense under the Clinton administration, William Cohen, called for a reduction in spending. The Air Force’s order was cut to 339 F-22s, and the Navy’s order was cut far below its original 1,000 F/A-18 E/Fs. That was not enough, so the Air Force, for instance, cut twenty-five or thirty thousand service men and women.29
      An advantage of keeping weapons was its benefits to people. Thousands of people had jobs, and many barriers between African-Americans and Caucasians collapsed. It gave opportunities for people to better their situations in life. Seaman Tom Mullikin was stationed on the USS Arleigh Burke. He said, “ ‘I was working a dead-end factory job back home, cutting fabric for car seats. Now I’m here forever, at least for the next couple of years.’ ”30 Petty Officer Ramirez of the USS Arleigh Burke joined the Navy at seventeen years of age. His goal was to obtain an education, and the Navy did that for him. It gave him another goal as well. “ ‘I’m putting in for officer training…Number one I want an education. Number two, it’s like payback time. The Navy did for me. I’m going to do for the Navy…I’m going to do good work while I’m here.’ ”31 The “Iron Triangle” forced many people like Petty Officer Ramirez and Seaman Mullikin out of their positions because of overspending. Overspending was not the only problem. America’s near-permanent state of mobilization added to the complex problem. Overspending did not allow for enough troops for the mobilization, so many of the same people went overseas repeatedly for extended stays. In addition, the men and women in the armed services made barely enough money to support themselves and their families. Colonel Schoel told Greider, “ ‘I had a soldier in here in this office, married with three kids, who figured out that if he rejected his military subsistence allowance, he qualified for food stamps and he came out dollars ahead. He decided not to do it. Too proud.’ ”32 The troops spouses said, “ ‘Honey, this is no way to live.’ ”33 Many of the marriages dissolved. Sergeant Brooks of the Air Force told Greider after seeing some old friends, “ ‘What’s kind of sad is all three of those guys have been divorced, and now it looks like I’m headed the same way.’ ”34 Suicide followed some of these situations. “Since 1990, suicide has been the second leading cause of death for active-duty Air Force members,”35 an increase of sixty-seven percent.36 The Ninety-ninth Medical Group released this statistic in 1997. They further declared,
      ‘The suicide rate among members between ages twenty and twenty-nine has increased drastically….The most common cause for suicide is difficulty in a relationship (breakup, divorce, or separation) or family problems…Difficulties at work are the second most common cause….Enlisted personnel are more likely to commit suicide….Most suicides occur during the summer in conjunction with permanent change-of-station moves or family separation.’37

      The men and women who work at the factories making fighter jets and other weapons were worried about their jobs. Howard Story, an F-16 forward section inspector at Fort Hood, said, “ ‘I’m nervous, currently. Unless we get some new orders, I’m out of here in June-July 1998…But even if we get orders today, we’re looking at layoffs. I’m out of here, regardless.’ ”38 Story also faced a drastic pay reduction. When he lost his job, he was able to find another one, but that was not his problem. “ ‘You can find seven- and eight-dollar jobs all day long,’ he shrugs. ‘It’s high-level jobs you can’t get.’ ”39 The politicians seemed to achieve their goal of obtaining jobs for constituents for a time. It did not last though, and they did not have the foresight to prevent unemployment rates from escalating due to the layoffs.
      Politics played a major role in the matter of disarmament, though its discussion was considered taboo. Initially, politics helped America arm by allotting money to the budget of the Pentagon in order to have more arms constructed. They also rallied their constituents in support of World War II after isolationism was no longer an option. Eventually, politicians maneuvered to have defense industry branches built in their own states. These businesses did not downsize their workforces because they did not want important politicians to withdraw their support. This contributed to the inefficiency and wastefulness. Some politicians claimed to be making changes when their revisions really did not do much good. Former Defense Secretary Cohen was such a politician. He made a few minor changes “but did not change the basic force structure of the armed services or cancel any of the major new weapons systems in the pipeline.”40 Meanwhile, Michael G. Vickers, “director of strategic studies at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments,”41 decided to find an alternative method. He brought together some “young colonels and other midlevel officers”42 and asked them to think of a way to reduce spending. The representatives of the armed services made significant reductions in the existing forces and purchases. The planned to use the money they saved for “serious research and development for future weapons.”43 The Army said it could “cut three of its ten divisions and cancel plans for a self-propelled howitzer.”44 The Navy said it could cancel the “construction of a new carrier and [demobilize] three carrier battle groups.”45 The Air Force said it “could drop six fighter wings, retire the B-1 bomber, and cancel the Joint Strike Fighter.”46 A few politicians wanted to make similar changes, including Senator John McCain of Arizona. McCain commented, “ ‘You start talking about national defense or foreign policy, the lines don’t light up. Talk about Medicaid, Social Security, IRS, taxes – bang! – they all want to be heard.’ ”47 McCain wanted to eliminate the Pentagon’s two-wars-simultaneously strategy, as well as canceling orders on all new weapons systems except the F-18 E/F for the Navy. “ ‘One thing, I think, is obvious,’ the senator [said]. ‘You cannot have all three weapons systems move forward….you’re going to consume two-thirds of the defense procurement budget just on tactical aircraft.’ ”48 He also said the Navy should “give up its ambitious plans to build a new class of attack submarines,”49 and that the Army should shrink the size of its ground forces.
      In conclusion, keeping weapons was a good thing. It enabled America to react promptly and powerfully after the World Trade Center was attacked. Wasteful spending and redundancy, however, negated many of the benefits. It became more useful to cut down on weapons projects, but the “Iron Triangle” refused to face the issue. Instead, they began an arms race against themselves by trying to stay ahead of the technology they sold to other countries. One of Bob Paulson’s clients described Congress as “ ‘ ‘the self-licking ice cream cone.’ ’ ”50 President Dwight D. Eisenhower warned against the “ ‘military-industrial complex.’ ”51 The “Iron Triangle” promoted their interests doggedly, and their plan backfired. Instead of helping people, it started to harm them in their daily lives. Instead of boosting the economy, after a while it fed upon itself until it was overspending, increasing an already high national debt. After my research, I decided that neither side was inarguably justified by the attacks on September 11, 2001. The extreme side in favor of disarmament would have America destroy almost all weapons. The equally extreme side against disarmament would continue the path toward the destruction of the American economy through wastefulness and inefficiency. A compromise is needed. The government should not spend so much on weapons it does not need, and the defense industries should not sell up-to-date American ordnance technology to other countries. The politicians need to stop using it to promote their own immediate interests because in the long-run it will only hurt everyone. This is a fundamentally simple concept that will, inevitably, become complex as more self-seeking people from all sides of the “Iron Triangle” are involved.

      btw, i do realize that many of my ideas are naive. what can i say? i’ll learn and become cynical like the rest of you in a few years. :wink:

      posted in General Discussion
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    • RE: Colin powel's speach

      Nice. I respect that more than an overused expression more than I thought I would.

      Quote:
      or could be if we drilled in Alaska.

      Alaska has nothing compared to Iraq. Iraq has the third most oil of any country in the world, Saudi Arabia and the US being first and second.

      It would still augment our own supply, still making us less dependent on Iraq.

      I truely think had Colin Powell not been there, we would of attacked Iraq in November.

      I can agree with that. And I think that’s why he chose Colin Powell for that position. I think he is weak in long-term planning, but he does know how to respond to the here and now. I believe that makes him good for this time period.

      posted in General Discussion
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    • RE: Where are your ancestors from?

      Thanks, dezrtfish, that’s cool! I think it interesting though: I love beans, and I like the desert. I love coincidences like that.

      I don’t think Canadian is an ethnicity.

      I guess not, cuz with the way people make fun of Canadians there would probably be like a 30% rise in hate crimes (verbal) if it was considered an ethnicity. Ha ha. :D

      posted in General Discussion
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    • RE: The Arms Trade

      I hate to interrupt what used to be wonderful “lovefest,” but I will anyway. First, I like your proposal YB. Second, if I post my term paper on this forum, will I get some feedback? It’s a debate term paper I did for my Government class. The topic is disarmament. It includes industry, military, and political inefficiency and waste, but also why keeping arms is good. I just want to try it.

      posted in General Discussion
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    • RE: Colin powel's speach

      We should give them M1 Abrams tanks too! Maybe some Apaches? F16s?

      Don’t worry, Yanny. That’ll happen, but it’s because the weapons industries sell the designs to “friendly” countries (i.e. UK, France, etc.). From there they branch out to the countries that haven’t been deemed “terrorist” or “communist.” It’s not up to the President, only the companies who are bent on making money.

      I believe Colin Powell gave a great speech. Right now, I’m not talking about the evidence, just the speech in general. He was very straightfoward and did not wax eloquent and take up everyone’s time and attention (with the exception of France and Germany - they just straight didn’t want to be there - France was literally on the verge of twiddling his thumbs).
      I also think the evidence was very compelling. Prior to this, I was hesitant to take a concrete stand about the war. I wasn’t getting enough info - just the same biased stuff over and over again. Why can’t the media give us the straight facts without any twists?

      I think Bush did a superb job on picking his advisors and staff.

      I totally agree DM. It’s unreasonable to expect a President to be perfect. The entire reason for choosing his Cabinet is to provide people who are strong in the areas where he is weak.

      However, I still do not trust Bush’s special interests. Bush raised more money than any President in history, by appealing to corporations. He has promises to keep, promises which are not in the interest of the Iraqi or American people.

      Sorry, Yanny, but when people keep using the same pithy, old, worn-out statements I get a little annoyed. Will you please give a less-used reason. I think the whole oil deal is a moot point anyway - or could be if we drilled in Alaska. I think there’s plenty there for us to stop being dependent on the oil from Iraq.

      I don’t know about anyone else, but these guys are starting to sound more and more unreasonable every day. The only people that Colin Powell didn’t convince yesterday are those people that won’t be convinced:
      A.) They don’t want to believe that Saddam Hussein is guilty.
      B.) They don’t want to believe the evidence.
      C.) They don’t want to trust their own government.

      (and most importantly)

      D.) They don’t want to see President Bush be right. He already proved himself as a defining president when he liberated Afganhistan and destroyed the Al-Qaeda stronghold. IMO, liberals are scared to death that Bush might prove himself to be an excellent president yet again.

      HEAR, HEAR!!!

      Anyway, i appreciate that finally the US has humbled itself to present some of their insights to those other nations.

      It’s better to confirm your evidence before you just jump the gun and wave it all around saying, “Here’s proof! Here’s proof!” - only to find out that it can’t be corroborated and (1) have to eat your own words, and (2) lose credibility.

      1. A clear plan for Iraqi democracy. Not a puppet Government which we know Dubbleya wants so badly.

      Actually, we don’t know that. I think it’s just an excuse to keep on believing the worst about the President.

      Finally, I truly believe that Saddam is using his “Bush is only trying to take over the oil so he can be a dictator” to cover his own sorry butt. It’s hard to convince me that if he didn’t have the stuff that he should still logically refuse to prove that it has been destroyed.

      “…the torpedoes, full speed ahead!”

      posted in General Discussion
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      dIfrenT
    • RE: Where are your ancestors from?

      Well, I don’t know the percentages, but here goes.

      Spanish (which is Latina)
      French
      Canadian (I nearly hesitate to admit it)
      African (don’t know which tribe since unimportant things like tribal identity got lost in the muddle of slavery)
      Native-American (I say that only to be politically correct; I’m from a tribe in southern Arizona; they called themselve the Papago but they changed their name and I don’t remember what it is)

      Whatever the percentages are, when they’re added together they equal:

      100% AMERICAN
      :D

      posted in General Discussion
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    • RE: Reading list

      Umm, weird. I usually read these things to forget about school, and here my AP Calc class is haunting me. I feel a headache coming on. Since we know who invented it, I say we figure out how to make a time machine (which we’d probably need calc for), go back in time, and kill the inventors. What say? OK, OK. I guess the stuff isn’t so bad when you get used to it. Believe me YB, if you intend to do any science/math (of course) related field, you’d better get used to it. I’m going to major in chemistry or biochem. I hate the trig that’s used in calc, sorry about that YB, but I think trig’s the hardest. Learn it now. Differential equations are anywhere from tolerable to fun. I used to LOVE math (as in go home and do math problems to relax - until H. Pre-calculus). Sad, huh? I had no life. Fortunately, I’ve branched out.

      About the reading list.
      I had to read Animal Farm, and I almost had to read 1984 this year. We had to read Great Expectations. I hate that book with a passion. I only read half of it (but the teacher explained it so well in class that I got like a 96% on the test). Ummm, Pride and Prejudice was very good. Not just the romance, but the interpretations you can get from it. I’m in AP English, so we have to tear the book apart piece by piece and write practice timed-writes (for the AP test).
      My favorites were Heart of Darkness, and Crime and Punishment.
      Ones I could have done without are any books by Charles Dickens, Romeo and Juliet (that is just so incredibly OLD and ground into the dirt), and The Great Gatsby.
      I did kind of like The Old Man and the Sea. It was sad to “see” an old man devastated like that.
      I’ll be reading Jane Eyre next. I hope it’s good.

      posted in General Discussion
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    • RE: State of the Union Address…

      dIfrenT, I haven’t seen you posting for a while. Remember, us Californians need representation too!

      Yeah, we don’t want people to think that all Californians are apathetic about our “governor.” I’ve been really, REALLY busy - midterm finals. Anyway, I hadn’t heard about the car fees. I think Davis is way beyond moronic (or imbecilic, or stupid, or just-run-over-my-head-with-a-dump-truck-because-I-have-no-brains-to-hurt-anyway :lol: ) Apparently, he’s keeping all the funds for the prison system, and cutting all the other ones that affect law-abiding citizens. Did you know he made a bet against the Florida governor Jeb Bush during the Superbowl? Betcha he won’t use his own money to pay it (unless he absolutely has to).

      Man, D:S, I didn’t realize people would so blatantly ignore the basic law of the land like that. Hello! What happened to “of the people, by the people, for the people”? Scratch that state of my list of states to live in. I’d rather stay here in California.
      I wish I could end this on a more positive note, but nothing positive comes to mind in this case. ttyl

      posted in General Discussion
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    • RE: State of the Union Address…

      Hey, could we go back to bashing the “governor” of California? That was the best thing I’ve read on-line in a long time. I’m sure bashing Canada could be fun, but I’d rather leave bashing my heritage alone. :D
      Anyway, since I got in here late, I want to say that I did see the Washington governor’s speech. Didn’t you just love how he said that the Democrats supported the President and then went on to tear him apart. I mean, come on, I know he wanted to criticize him, but did he have to further prove his hypocrisy by saying he was supporting him? I just love how he gave us his entire family history. I’ll never ever forget that he works serving Washington only a mile from where his dad used to work as a servant in a house. Touching. Sniff wipe a tear from my eye Yeah, overall I like Bush as a President, but I would like to have a little more info before I completely back his moves.

      BTW, Canadians are nice. I went there a couple years ago with my family. My dad needed a nickel and some lady we’d never seen and probably will never see again gave him one. That was cool. And two of my classmates are Canadian (that makes three of us in the class), one of them can actually choose to become a Canadian citizen. (Although, I really hope he choose to take American citizenship.) :)

      posted in General Discussion
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      dIfrenT
    • RE: Religion, Why?

      EmuGod, do you mean adultery not idolatry? I’m sorry, I don’t mean to be picky, but it threw me off for a second. Actually, my friends would say I’ve been off for a long time now. :lol: Anyhow, Falwell isn’t speaking for God. He’s not putting words in God’s mouth. God says right in the Bible that Jesus is the only way to Heaven.
      John 14:6
      Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me [emphasis mine].

      posted in General Discussion
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