Posts made by deepblue

Several people have asked about the Sahara.  If the group likes what I have come up with I will add it to the next draft.

http://www.mediafire.com/?2ztygwmmjc1

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the input.  It is all great advice.

Those who like the map thanks for saying so, now I know I am on the right track.

Some food for thought before I make the changes.

Access through the Great Lakes.

Well to be honest I have never thought of that.  I am not sure if adding access to the lakes would improve the game.  Group what do you think?

Map Dimensions

I was hoping to discuss this with the group in more detail later but just to give you an idea of what I am thinking.

At the minimum 3 feet by 6 feet, maybe a bit bigger.

Can’t believe I fat fingered Yucatan.

Well I had a fifty/fifty shot with Rumania/Romania.

Found this site that supports the “o” but I don’t care either way.
http://www.orbilat.com/Languages/Rumanian/Rumanian_vs_Romanian.html

Territory Names and VCs

I left off the victory cites/territory names (which are also the names of the VCs) for two reasons.
1. I thought it would help us focus on the territories. (Obviously I was wrong.)
2. I am reworking their Font and was not finished yet, but figured you wanted to see the map ASAP.

I was hoping we could hold off on the victory city topic until we are happy with the map itself.

Will add Ceylon. Nice catch never even noticed it.

China’s roundel

I have mixed feelings about adding China’s roundel.  I have not played AAP so forgive my ignorance.  They can acquire armies themselves?  Please explain.

My only concern with this is, map consistency, if China why not France, Australia etc.  My first reaction is to keep the roundels limited to the player nations. But this is not in stone.

The Roads and Rails

Currently I do not like the idea of having them.  This is why,

Why just these?  Europe was covered in rail and the Germans used them extensively.  But they don’t have rail on the map.  I think we are getting to granular with this.

I do like the idea of a strategic move, but may I suggest we borrow form Europe Engulfed and introduce a strategic non-combat move instead of having rail/road actually on the map.

If you like my (borrowed) idea we can work out the particulars.  It is a simple idea that can be implemented easily.

But if you really want the rail/roads I will be happy to make a version with them on it if you would like.

Kashmir will be replaced.

Manchukuo was a former state in Manchuria and both the AA and AAP maps have it as Manchuria.

The only reference I have found to Koko Nor is that it is a lake within Tsinghai Province.

Please provide more info on Heiho, I was unable to find any reference to a land area with that name.

What empty territories are you referring to?  The circle (which if you guys have not noticed represents city areas) area is for Peiping.  I believe this is the correct spot?

I don’t see the second empty area.

Hopei is already on the map. Is it in the right spot?

Charar on our map is close to what I have found…Yes it is not an exact match but close.

Please provide info on Hingan.

Sea Zones

Yes, the sea zones will be numbered.

Other things

Is everyone happy with the remainder of the (land) map?

I know there were some concerns about Italy.  Do you like its current holdings?

How about city circles?

Are there any other cities you would like to see have their own area like Tobruk.  I am not referring to VCs, just cities that should have their own area.  For instance Saigon, I removed it from the map because the border was incorrect, but if the group thinks it is important enough I could add it back using a circle area.  Don’t suggest cities just because you like them or live there.  Try to think of cities that had major battles but don’t warrant VC status.  Maybe a Free (green) Chinese city?  Thoughts?

No one noticed any additional game play issues with the territories?

Great, I will do my best to make these changes in a timely fashion.  Please feel free to provide more info and/or suggestions as they come to you.  After we finalize these changes I suggest we look at the oceans so I can start numbering the sea squares. (I am not looking forward to that.)

Thanks again to all for the feedback, keep it coming.

deepblue

Gentlemen,

It’s finally here, my first draft!

I believe to be as productive as possible we should focus our discussions.  The draft posted below is to help us decide on land territory attributes, such as correct name, color, allegiance, borders, etc.  Once we have agreed on this topic we can move to a different topic such as ocean squares, etc.

So try to control your ADD. :-D

When reviewing the map please consider both historical accuracy and game play. 
The image has been reduced by 50% to allow for faster download times.  Also, elements have been removed to help us focus on the task at hand.

http://www.mediafire.com/?0djq4ynzwln

Imp,

Let my try this again, I must not be making myself clear.  I think we are talking apples and oranges.

Vichy was in control of Madagascar, and Germany never had control.  This is a true statement that I have never disagreed with.

I am not saying Germany had control.

With that said lets go to our game map.  On our map we do not differentiate between Germany and Vichy they are both Axis and both fall under the umbrella of Germany for our game, just like in the current AA game.  So all the assets of Vichy will be colored gray and be controlled by the German player, including North Africa and Madagascar.

Last current changes post.

Russia

Vorkuta is now Komi-Zyryan SSR*
Norilsk is now Krasnoyarsk*
Kansk is now Southern Siberia*
Kevenki SSR is now Yevenki
Yakut is now Yakut SSR
Vladivostok is now Primorsky*

The border between Far Eastern Republic and Primorsky has been modified to reflect a more accurate presentation. (I hope)

Asia

Peking is now Peiping.
Chungking – Hupeh is now Hupeh*
French Indochina border has been corrected. (Saigon was removed)
New Delhi is now Delhi*

The border between Korea and Primorsky has been corrected.  Manchuria is now land locked.

Middle East

Arabia is now Saudi Arabia

Americas

Colombia is now spelled correctly
Deep South is now Southern United States
Finished Ontario’s boarder
Northwest Territories is now labeled above Ontario
Northwest Territories is now Western Canada

Pacific

Midway is now Midway Island

Ocean

Sea square 103 has been divided
Sea square 26 as been reworked to make it more apparent that it connects with square 21
Sea square 27 has been divided
Black Sea square 43 has been divided

Update

Italian Roundel updated.

I believe that is all the updates posted on this thread to this point.

I hope to have a draft posted tomorrow.

deepblue

Ok, hopefully this will be my final post on the subject of Vichy, Madagascar.

We are rolling up Vichy into Germany for simplicity sake.

Vichy controlled Madagascar until November of 1942.

So Madagascar is grey (German Controlled) on our 1941 map?

Imp, if you have a specific solution please share, or anyone else for that matter.

My source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Madagascar

@Micoom:

Under German Command it was taken back… Still over 75% of the force used were Italian.

Thanks for the supporting info. Looks like we can leave Libya in the hands of the Italians.

Gentlemen,

I think before we go any further with this project I should express what I am looking to get from this project, and my point of view.

Lets start with what A&A is and isn’t.  A&A is a WWII game that is on a global scale but does not have much depth.  It is referred to as a “beer and peanuts” kind of game.  It’s for a group of people who get together and want to play a game for 4 to 6 hours have some beer, some laughs and a good time.  It is a very broad and general board game.

A&A is not a game for hardcore gamers/historians that want to replay the historical battles of the war down to minute details.  Or people who want to make sure everything is absolutely correct and historically accurate.  There are other games out there (Europe Engulfed, Third Reich) for that sort of thing and I enjoy playing them as well.

But this is A&A.

I posted to this forum because I believe this is a worth while project and the group of people seemed passionate about it.  So I posted, offering some of my free time, to see this thing through and done right while meeting some people who are as fanatical about this game as I, to the point to pay 100+ dollars for a map.

I did not post to be badgered, insulted or to listen to rude remarks.  I expect everyone to be cordial and polite, express their opinions and give suggestions that will contribute to the project not hinder it.

For the most part I have found what I was expecting, a group of people who want to make a great map, but in some cases we have lost track of why we are here, and have forgotten that everyone involved is volunteering their time.

So…

If you agree, and want to continue this project let me know.  I am hoping we can work together to make an outstanding addition to the A&A legacy.

deepblue

Imperious,

I am in agreement with pdel21 on Vichy France.  No need to add confusion to the map.  Like the current AA game Vichy has been rolled up with Germany.

I have a map, and it is from December 1941, nowhere have I mention June.  As I stated earlier I have been working from the prospective of December of 1941.

With that in mind Madagascar is not taken by the British until May of 1942.  So I don’t understand the issue there.

Concerning Northern Africa: It is my understanding that Rommel is not stopped until the first battle of El Alamein which takes place in July of 1942.

pdel21,

I originally had the map set at an earlier date to accommodate the Italian holdings in eastern Africa.  But after review of the ramifications across the other regions of the world, I decided to move the date forward.

Some reasons why:
British capture Mogadishu and Italian Somaliland in February of 1941.

Yugoslavia and Greece have not been conquered yet.
Thailand is still independent.
I’m not sure if Finland is considered axis yet.
This requires more time for the Americans to enter the war.
The Middle East is still in flux.
Eastern front will change drastically.

These are some reasons why I changed my mind and moved the date of the map forward.

But this is not set in stone.  I am willing to discuss this further.  I felt that the current date/time would be better suited.  With Italy in control of Greece this only reduced Italy IPCs by one which can be easily fixed.

Thanks for input.

pdel21,

Sorry, left Albania off the list, but trust me they are firmly controlled by Italy.

Roundel…. Oh… that makes more sense now.

Sorry for the confusion, thanks for the clarification.

Europe

Austria is now labeled correctly.

Germany is now labeled.

Italy is now labeled.

Italy’s borders have been changed to look more natural.

Holland is now labeled Netherlands.

In reference to Italy’s flag I was unable to find reference to what pdel21 posted to the thread.  I did find reference to Italy’s flag during this time as the same three color flag but with a coat of arms on the white stripe.  I tried to reduce the coat of arms I found but the starting pictures were to big, so by the time I reduced it to fit on the map’s flag it was blurry and looked bad.  So at this point the Italian flag has been unchanged.

@pdel21:

What nations does Italy now hold with these changes?  We need to be sure that it is still playable as a nation.

Currently,

Italy, Northern & Southern Italy, Greece, Sardinia, Sicily, Tripolitania, Cyrenaica, and Fezzan.

This is not set in stone and may need to be “worked” a bit.  I am supportive of a playable Italy.

Eastern Front

In 12/41 the Germans had pushed all the way to the doorstep of Moscow.  To reflect this I put the Baltic States, Byelorussia, East Poland, Western & Eastern Ukraine, Crimea and Western Russia under Germany’s control.

Orel-Kursk is now Western Russia.*

While on this subject, I put Greece under Italian control.  This will help bolster Italy’s holdings after losing eastern Africa.  Historically after Germany conquered Greece the majority of Greece was put under Italian occupation.

Africa

All of Libya is now under Italian control.  Historically Italy lost Libya by now but the Germans had taken it back, minus Tobruk.  To support Italy as a viable player nation I left in the hands of the Italians.

Abyssinia and Italian Somaliland were under British control by this time.

Abyssinia is now spelled correctly.

Belgian Congo was never neutral so they are now under British control.

Mozambique was neutral and the map now reflects that.

Sahara is now named Niger.

The region labeled Cairo is now labeled Lower Egypt.*

Libya is now Fezzan.

Madagascar was under German control at this time, the map now reflects that.

losttribe04 ,

Thanks for the food, this is what I wanted to hear, your thoughts.

I agree the date is trivial down to the day and in some cases even the month.  I just needed a date to work with.

Thanks for the input, keep it coming.

Global Changes

I removed the instructional text from the map.  I believe instructions should be in the instruction manual not on the map.

Text Font is now Stencil Std.

Capitals and victory cities are now gold with bevel and emboss effects.

• I did not like the naming of regions with a city name. So whenever possible I changed the name to the appropriate region name.  Note: Areas marked with a perfect circle are city areas and are named as such.

I did not the color of the Japanese territories.  They were to close to the color of the Russians and their borders did not have a major contrast.  So I experimented with different purples and yellows.  Purple and yellow are imperial colors so I thought that one of them would be fitting.  Purple did not match well in the region because it was a darker color like the Russian Red so I decided with a golden yellow but not to much orange or we would have the same problem with the British territories.

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Gentlemen,

I had been working on this map for about two weeks, on and off before posting to this thread.  I would like to take this opportunity to catch you up on what changes I have made and solicit feedback from the group.

I will be following this post with a series of post each outlining a topic of change for the map.

My goal is to make this map as historically accurate as possible without sacrificing proper game mechanics and providing a platform for exceptional game play and fun.

So first I had to decide on what date the map would reflect.  Positronica suggested 1941 but when?  A lot happened in 41 countries fell, nations entered the war on either side, etc.

So after some debate, primarily with myself, I decided on the 5th of December 1941, this seems to be a good place to start.  America is about to enter the war, the eastern front in Europe is stable (as stable as it could be), the Middle East had finally “picked” a side and the nations that are natural primarily stayed neutral from this point forward.

I did my best to research each change, primarily using Google and Wikipedia, but if you find an error please let me know.  I am looking for constructive feedback to make this map worthy of the price tag.

So on to the changes….

If you would like for me to continue to work on this map and post my results all I ask is that this group help me make this map the best it can be.  As some of you have pointed out, printing this map is not a cheap endeavor.  So, I would like to get it right the first time.

I think if we work together going over several drafts focusing on different aspects of the map we can come out with something truly worthy of the price tag.

I have begun replacing the typos with new text but I did not like the original font.  It appears to be just Arial.  I looked into fonts from the WWII era and downloaded a font that looked like it was typed from an old typewriter.  This was a cool effect, but did not read well on the map so after some searching I decided on Stencil Std.  Below is a comparison between the original and the new font I am using.

[attachment deleted by admin]

Gentlemen,

I was wondering if this project is still underway or has it lost its momentum. To often these things come to a halt due to lack of time and/or continued interest.

Positronica your map is wonderful piece of work, Great Job.  I would also like to thank you for posting your source files to allow others to continue to work on it and improve it.  It is not often that someone is willing to share their work with others.  Thanks.  The map is great, but it still needs some work.  I have begun making the corrections outlined on this thread and some other changes as well.

If this project has lost steam and if Positronica does not have the time to continue the work I would like to offer my time.  I am not by any means a graphic artiest but I know my way around Photoshop to get the job done.

Positronica’s Original Map with requested Updates
http://www.mediafire.com/?cw1zmd3jxwx

Deepblue’s Current Map Updates:

05/25/2007 http://www.mediafire.com/?bxazc1zzvjz
05/18/2007 http://www.mediafire.com/?1cglnzondyt
05/04/2007 http://www.mediafire.com/?fjjrvm2nyzn
04/27/2007 http://www.mediafire.com/?80jbfymybo0
04/13/2007 http://www.mediafire.com/?7mydyyje2jm
04/06/2007 http://www.mediafire.com/?enuvyjmek2o
03/30/2007 http://www.mediafire.com/?8jnm23jjm5j
03/24/2007 http://www.mediafire.com/?33tytmjmgkk
03/15/2007 http://www.mediafire.com/?84zwmod2qrz
03/08/2007 http://www.mediafire.com/?0djq4ynzwln