Posts made by Dauvio Vann

Now Kreuzfeld formula, and the Baron-Larrymarx formulas are parts of the VANN FORMULAS that I discover 30 years ago. Kreuzfeld, and Baron-Larrymarx discover these parts on their own. They both have great work with the formulas.

When I created these formulas is to simplify the game, not to make it complex. I wanted it to be a game changer.

Now for pricing your own units you use this formula √((P100)/(S6))=C.
P=POINTS
C=COST
S=STRENGTH OF THE UNIT BASED ON COST
I advise you house rulers times everything by ten (value of territories, cost of units) for better results.

Hopefully I can find more of my formulas that I can share with you. I my hay have to try to reconstruct them if I can. I am working on some new formulas, and stats.

Thank you for your time.

@Baron:

Do you use a A2 D2 C6 Submarine?

How can you get 1.5 for surprise strike?

2.5 maybe… 3…

The formula is 36*…
Not same as yours

A Battleship A6 D6, 2 hits, which always hit the mark what is the point?

I only use the battleship A6 D6 as a comparison.

A sub A2 with sneak attack is the same as a unit A3 without a sneak attack.

We have different approach, but our results are the same.

I misplace some of my formulas, so I am trying to recreate them. That’s what i’ll be doing if I can’t find them.

I have to do more research on triple haul units though, and multi unit stacks in a territory for their strength.

I would like to work with you for more advance formulas for the game Baron Munchhausen if that’s possible.

@Baron:

Thanks for sharing Dauvio.
I found the way to calculate the increase of Strength per unit based on cost when such unit have 2 or 3 hits.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=40290.msg1684908#msg1684908

And apply it to price units according to their strength. √((P100)/(S6))=C

I did not get through as well as you put:  √((P100)/(S6))=Cost

It was more a matter of trials with higher and lower costs to determine designer’s right price POV:

@Baron:

This a revised version derived and adapted to G40 2ed units roster from Vann formula.
It has no pretense about game-play strategy or tactic.
All the implications of this formula are yet to be discovered.

One purpose is to get an idea of the relative strength of a given unit in relation to its combat value and IPCs per hit ratio. It say if you get enough for your bucks.

Mainly, it provides a single number as guideline to determine if at a given cost (same IPCs basis) and a given power such custom units of yours is either in the upper or the lower hand of the spectrum. Of course, it is more fruitful to compare similar type of units.

The benchmark has been fixed upon the Tank A3 D3 C6 at a offense & defense factor of 3.00
Same number as attack and defense combat values but for other units it varies.

From highest to lowest offense or defense factor, you get:
8, 5.88, 4.50, 4.00, 3.00, 2.33, 2.25, 2.00, 1.74, 1.50, 1.44, 1.17, 1.143, 1.125, 1.08, 1.00, 0.89,  0.75, 0.25, and there is more.

When 2 units have near-same factor, it means that on AACalc with same IPCs basis, these units will be even and near 50%-50% odds of survival against each other. But, you no more need to make simulations to get the relative strength of your costum units. Just file in the number you have in mind and compare with similar units.

I provided an example of an HR Mechanized Artillery A2 D2 M2 C5 costum unit at the end of this table.
Is this stronger or weaker than an OOB Tank? Does is it a better defense than an OOB D3 Tank?
Does combined arms remains within other OOB combined arms?

You will get an accurate idea with this.

@Baron:

Here is the table based on Baron-Larrymarx formula completed on effective cost vs combat points ratio:
For all 1 hit unit, you use : 36 Power/(cost^2) = offense or defense factor*
For 2 hits and 3 hits unit : 36 Power/(cost^2) {1+[(nb hit -1)/11.618034] }= offense or defense factor*

For combined arms and multiple units you have to average both combat points per unit and cost per unit.
Then you can add it into the formula.

Tank is the basic reference and gives also 3 offense and defense factor (same as attack or def point)

Tank A3 D3 M2 C6
offense & defense factor: 36*3/(6^2)= 3

Mech Infantry A1 D2 M2 C4 would get
Offense factor:
36*(1/4^2) = 2.25
Defense factor:
36*(2/4^2)= 4.50

Artillery A2 D2 M1 C4
Offense & Defense factor:
36*(2/4^2)= 4.50

Infantry A1 D2 M1 C3
Offense:
36*(1/3^2) = 4
Defense:
36*(2/3^2) = 8

AIRCRAFTS:
Fighter A3 D4 C10, 1 hit
Offense factor:
36*(3/10^2) = 1.08
Defense factor:
36*(4/10^2) = 1.44

Tactical Bomber A3 D3 C11, 1 hit
Offense & Defense factor:
36*(3/11^2) = 0.893

Strategic Bomber A4 D1 C12, 1 hit
Offense factor:
36*(4/12^2) = 1
Defense factor:
36*(1/12^2) = 0.25

Combined ARMS:
Infantry & Artillery A4 D4 M1 C7, 2 hits
Offense factor:
36*(2/3.5^2) = 5.88
Defense factor:
36*(2/3.5^2)= 5.88

Mech Infantry & Artillery A4 D4 C8, 2 hits
Offense factor:
36*(2/4^2) = 4.50
Defense factor:
36*(2/4^2)= 4.50

Tactical Bomber & Tank A7 D6 C17, 2 hits
Offense factor:
36*(3.5/8.5^2) = 1.744
Defense factor:
36*(3/8.5^2)= 1.495

Tactical Bomber & Fighter A7 D7 C21, 2 hits
Offense factor:
36*(3.5/10.5^2) = 1.143
Defense factor:
36*(3.5/10.5^2)= 1.143

WARSHIPS:
Submarine A2 D1 C6
Offense:
36*(2/6^2) = 2
36*(2.33/6^2) = 2.33 surprise strike
Defense:
36*(1/6^2) = 1
36*(1.17/6^2) = 1.17 surprise strike

Destroyer A2 D2 C8, 1 hit
Offense & Defense factor:
36*(2/8^2) = 1.125

Cruiser A3 D3 C12, 1 hit
Offense & Defense factor:
36*(3/12^2) = 0.750

1942.2 Carrier A1 D2 C14, 1 hit
Offense factor:
36*(1/14^2) = 0.184
Defense factor:
36*(2/14^2) = 0.367

1942.2 Carrier Full Fighters A7 D10 C34, 3 hits
Offense factor:
36*(1/14^2) = 0.184
36*(3/10^2) = 1.08
36*(3/10^2) = 1.08
2.344/3= 0.781 to be revised, need to be below 0.736
36* (7/3)/(34/3)^2 = 0.654

Defense factor:
36*(4/10^2) = 1.44
36*(4/10^2) = 1.44
36*(2/14^2) = 0.367
3.247/3= 1.082 to be revised
36* (10/3)/(34/3)^2 = 0.934

G40 Carrier A0 D2 C16, 2 hits
Offense factor:
36*[0/ (16^2)] * 2.618034 = 0
Defense factor:
36*[2/ (16^2)] * 2.618034 = 0.736

G40 Carrier A0 D2 C16, 2 hits with 2 Fgs A6 D8 C20, 2 hits
Offense factor:
    6/2  C36/2   2 additionnals hit/2
36*[3/ (18^2)] * 2.618034 = 0.873

Defense factor:
     10/2  C36/2  2 additionnals hit/2
36*[5/ (18^2)] * 2.618034 = 1.454

G40 Carrier A0 D2 C16, 2 hits with 1 Fg & 1 TcB A7 D7 C21, 2 hits
Offense factor :
     7/2  C37/2   2 additionnals hit/2
36*[3.5/ (18.5^2)] * 2.618034 = 0.964

Defense factor:
     9/2  C37/2  2 additionnals hit/2
36*[4.5/ (18.5^2)] * 2.618034 = 1.239

G40 Carrier A0 D2 C16, 2 hits with 2 TcBs A6 D6 C22, 2 hits
Offense factor :
     6/2  C38/2   2 additionnals hit/2
36*[3/ (19^2)] * 2.618034 = 0.783

Defense factor:
     8/2  C38/2  2 additionnals hit/2
36*[4/ (19^2)] * 2.618034 = 1.044

Battleship A4 D4 C20, 2 hits
Offense & Defense factor:
36* 4 / (20^2) * 2.618034 = 0.9425

Battleship flag ship A4 D4 C24, 3 hits
Offense & Defense factor:
36* 4 / (24^2)* (1+21.618034) = 1.06
Real factor according to AACalc simulation: Fg A3 36(3/10^2) = 1.08

Sound very good…

This last example confirmed that the formula is right on!!!  :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

---

HR unit examples:

Mech Artillery A2 D2 M2 C5 gives +1A to Inf or MI
Offense & Defense factor:
36*(2/5^2) = 2.880

Mech Infantry & Mechanized Artillery A4 D4 M2 C9, 2 hits
Offense factor:
36*(2/4.5^2) = 3.556
Defense factor:
36*(2/4.5^2)= 3.556

Now, is it the end of Tank purchase? Not if you restrict Blitz to Tank only.
Or, add a combined arms with Tank and Mech Artillery.
That way,  Tank will remain interesting.

Another example, a 2 hits Cruiser at 14 or 15 or 16 IPCs to replace OOB Cruiser?

Cruiser A3 D3 C???, 2 hits
Offense & Defense factor:
36* 3 / (14^2) * 2.618034 = 1.44

36* 3 / (15^2) * 2.618034 = 1.26

36* 3 / (16^2) * 2.618034 = 1.10

Do you want it better than a Battleship A4 D4 C20, 2 hits at 0.9425?
Weaker than a Destroyer? A2 D2 C8 at 1.125

If you want this progression SS>DD>CA>BB, then you go for 16 IPCs.

Now rise the question of an OOB obsolete BB…

But, you can change for a 3 hits BBs… of very similar strength to Cruiser, but 3 hits give more latitude for strafing enemy’s fleet:
Strong Battleship A4 D4 C24, 3 hits
Offense & Defense factor:
36* 4 / (24^2)* (1+2*1.618034) = 1.06

Or maybe at 22 IPCs?
36* 4 / (22^2)* (1+2*1.618034) = 1.26

And you get a similar factor with 15 IPCs 2 hits Cruiser.
36* 3 / (15^2) * 2.618034 = 1.26

It remains up to the designer to choose among these possibilities.

HTH

I also did some work on the double hall battleship, and on the sneak attack of the sub. This is what I found.

BATTLESHIP A4/A4 FACTOR OF 1.6
SUB A2 FACTOR OF 1.5
BATTLESHIP A6/A6 FACTOR 1.5

The two battleship comparison I am puzzle with. I have to do more research on the matter.

I MADE A MISTAKE ON THE FIRST FORMULA PEOPLE. IT SHOULD BE THIS.

It came to my attention that one of my formulas are already out there that I discovered 30 years ago.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=185969 has also discovered the formula N^2*P=S
And just for fun you can try these formulas also. S/N^2=P. √(S/P)=N
P=POINTS
N=NUMBER OF UNITS
S=STRENGTH OF ONE KIND OF UNITS IN A TERRITORY
This formula should replace the punch formula. It is much better then the punch formula.

@Baron:

@Dauvio:

It came to my attention that one of my formulas are already out there that I discovered 30 years ago.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=185969 has also discovered the formula P^2*N=S
And just for fun you can try these formulas also. S/P^2=N. √(S/N)=P
P=POINTS
N=NUMBER OF UNITS
S=STRENGTH OF ONE KIND OF UNITS IN A TERRITORY
This formula should replace the punch formula. It is much better then the punch formula.

If you have any questions about these formulas, please ask.

It is a different formula : avgPN^2 compared to P^2N

Now, which one is more accurate?

3 Infs D2 23^2= 18 compared to 2^23= 12

11 A2 vs 9 D3 gives almost 50%-50%

11^22 vs 9^23
242 vs 243

OR

112^2 vs 93^2
44 vs 81

I think you put the square on the wrong figure…

Yes you are right, LIKE A DUMMY I SWITCH THE TWO BY MISTAKE!!! Stupid on me!!!

It came to my attention that one of my formulas are already out there that I discovered 30 years ago.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=185969 has also discovered the formula P^2*N=S
And just for fun you can try these formulas also. S/P^2=N. √(S/N)=P
P=POINTS
N=NUMBER OF UNITS
S=STRENGTH OF ONE KIND OF UNITS IN A TERRITORY
This formula should replace the punch formula. It is much better then the punch formula.

Now the next formula is (P100)/(C^26)=S
P=POINTS
C=COST
S=STRENGTH OF THE UNIT BASED ON COST
With this formula you can also price units according to their strength. √((P100)/(S6))=C
This formula is for points. (S*(C^2*6))/100=P

For better results for some of these formulas, have all your units cost ten times then what they are. These are some of the VANN FORMULAS I came up 30 years ago.

If you have any questions about these formulas, please ask.

Yes I’m still here, and I gave my apologies to YG. I am not going to crash his tournament. I am going to stay put in Grand Rapids, MI. Hopefully he will live stream it.

I received a very stern warning from the admins. I am mentally sound, and I am not retarded. I left a message to YG on his VANN SPAM video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CirE4q47YsE&lc=z22ozx4grzbzg5rzl04t1aokg5fdgtb1vmt23mplttspbk0h00410.1502883704475497

I would be glad to talk to you people in all aspects of the A&A games. I want to contribute to the A&A community since I am part of the community, and yes I am a die hard fan of A&A games, and beyond.

I am glad that I am still part of the A&A community so I contribute, and mend broken bridges. Hopefully I can see some of you in future tournaments, BUT NOT AT YG’s TOURNAMENT. I"ll stay home for that one.

I will be looking forward to talk to any of you on every aspect of the games.

Signing off now, your community member Dauvio Vann.

Thank you.

Me and the Grand Masters will go to the G40 tournament to show everyone the VANN FORMULAS, and will be talking to Larry Harris the creator of the A&A game industry. We hope we can see you all there, thank you.

HAPPY HUNTING EVERYONE!!!

Me and the Grand Masters will go to the G40 tournament to show everyone the VANN FORMULAS, and will be talking to Larry Harris the creator of the A&A game industry. We hope we can see you all there, thank you.

HAPPY HUNTING EVERYONE!!!

Me and the Grand Masters will go to the G40 tournament to show everyone the VANN FORMULAS, and will be talking to Larry Harris the creator of the A&A game industry. We hope we can see you all there, thank you.

HAPPY HUNTING EVERYONE!!!

Me and the Grand Masters will go to the G40 tournament to show everyone the VANN FORMULAS, and will be talking to Larry Harris the creator of the A&A game industry. We hope we can see you all there, thank you.

HAPPY HUNTING EVERYONE!!!

Great news, we had a huge response for the VANN FORMULAS!!! So with a select few we gave them the formulas. They were sworn to secrecy to not to tell anyone that they have them. They have been winning just about every game against there friends, and their friends can’t figure out how they are doing it!!! Hence they became Grand Masters of the game.

Now you are saying when are we going to get the VANN FORMULAS ourselves, you’re not. That’s right, you’re not going to get the VANN FORMULAS.

LARRY HARRIS the creator of the A&A games will get them instead.

However we will keep bring you news, and game results on the VANN FORMULAS.

HAPPY HUNTING EVERYONE!!!  8-) 8-) 8-)

What is the strength of the units in Axis and Allies Global 1940 based on their cost, and are there any obsolete units in that game???

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=40225.0

A new game came out called ALLIES & AXIS. I played it, and it is a awesome game. It doesn’t have any obsolete units in it, meaning every unit has value to buy. The detail in the game pieces, and the map are awesome. The rules are very simple, making the play very complex. There can be up to 21 players in the game, and over 100 different units. The game only last two hours. It deals with multiple world wars. The game rating has a maximum of five stars plus. You will never get bored. It’s different every time.  You may be winning big time in the game, but you may miss a little detail and lose it all.

Could I say more??? Yes I can!!! Try ALLIES & AXIS, and see what you think of the game yourself.

Oh BTW, when you think of the game ALLIES & AXIS, think 3D, and 4D.

:-o :-o :-o :-o :-o :-o :-o

However we can take the blitz out of it.

In WW2 they needed everything to move fast, so the armored car would be a perfect fit in A&A games. I know the cost is really cheap, but the attack, and defense is really low. It can only hit 8.33% of the time.

Armor car stats.
C/M/A/D 2/2/1/1
Uses a 12 sided dice.
Blitz, it can carry a infantry, or haul a artillery.

Please give your opinion on this unit.

I see where you guys are coming from, and I owe the A&A community a apology. I didn’t really show any respect to any of you, and I’m sorry for that.

I will give you the G40 unit strengths based on their cost. These numbers are derived from the VANN FORMULAS.

Attack/defense=A/D
INFANTRY        1.85/3.7
MECH              1.04/2.08
ARTILLERY      2.08/2.08
TANK              1.39/1.39
FIGHTER          .5/.667
TECHBOMB      (.413/.551)/.413
BOMBER          .463/.116
SUB                1.39/.463
DESTROYER      .521/.521
CRUISER          .347/347
CARRIER          0/.139
BATTLESHIP    .267/.267

These other stats is one to one ratio.

INF/ART          2.72/2.72
MECH/ART      2.08/2.08
MECH/TANK    1.33/1.67

Now the one to one stats could be a little off because I don’t know the G40 rules. However I know the MECH/TANK numbers should be higher, but I didn’t have time to run the numbers through.

Happy hunting everyone!!! Smiley

@CWO:

In their recent posts above, toblerone77 and Ichabod both pointed out that the usefulness of a particular A&A unit can’t simply be judged by its raw numbers (attack, defense, movement and cost values), which are dictated by the rulebook; it also depends enormously on how the unit gets used by the players – and this is something that can vary greatly from one game to another and therefore can’t be accounted for by a formula.  And that’s even assuming that the formula is valid in the first place.  The results that are obtained from any equation won’t just depend on the data that’s inputted into the equation (in this case meaning attack, defense, movement and cost values of an A&A unit); they will also depend on how the equations are structured in the first place and on the validity of the theoretical model on which the equations are based.

To give a deliberately silly example, I’ll invent right now an arbitrary concept (Total Military Value, or TMV) and an arbitrary equation to calculate it.  Let’s say that the Total Military Value of an A&A unit is attack value times defense value times movement value, divided by cost value – or to express this as an equation: (A x D x M) / C = TMV.  Now let’s plug in some figures.  According to the Global 1940.2 rulebook, the A/D/M/C figures for an infantry unit are 1/2/1/3 and for a tank are 3/3/2/6.  If we run figures through my arbitrary formula, we can compute that the infantry unit’s TMV is 0.66 and that the tank’s TMV is 3; comparing these two results allows us to see that the tank’s TMV is 4.54 times greater than the infantry unit’s TMV, and therefore that the tank is 4.54 times more useful as a purchase than the infantry unit.  Do I believe the conclusion to which I’ve just come?  Of course not.  Why not?  Because as I mentioned, this formula is arbitrary.  I invented it off the top of my head.  There’s no rationale behind, no theoretical model, and therefore it’s useless because its validity can’t be verified.  If the theoretical model behind an equation isn’t valid, then the equation derived from it won’t be valid, and the results computed from the equation won’t be valid either.  The validity of an equation can’t be proven by just presenting the figures computed from it, without presenting both the details of the equation itself and of the theoretical model that underpins the equation.

You sound just like Doctor Theopolis from Buck Rogers, and I love it!!! :) :) :)

@Ichabod:

@Dauvio:

These numbers are derived from the VANN FORMULAS.

Attack/defense=A/D
INFANTRY 1.85/3.7
MECH 1.04/2.08
ARTILLERY 2.08/2.08
TANK  1.39/1.39
FIGHTER  .5/.667
TECHBOMB(.413/.551)/.413
BOMBER.463/.116
SUB1.39/.463
DESTROYER.521/.521
CRUISER  .347/347
CARRIER  0/.139
BATTLESHIP  .267/.267

Acknowledged on the apology to the axis and allies community. Good step in the right direction. You can write me off, I’m just a guy who likes G40. But remember, the guys out there who make youtube videos, and at times engage in projects which increase our gaming experience, are well respected and appreciated. I don’t need to name names here, but everyone else knows the several individuals I’m referring to.

The OBSOLETE TANK - Debate Cont.

What do these decimals mean? How are they derived? Is the higher the decimal the better? Doesn’t make sense to me. Here’s a decimal percent, .0001%. That’s the chance you’ll change my mind, but if you respond “it was derived from the VANN Formula and I don’t know if I want to give out the secret,” I’m DONE with you. I don’t care about your formula, but right now it means zilch to everyone. In the arena of ideas, winning games against others is the best way to establish creditability. You might want to consider playing some people on triplea.

Does your formula take into account: strategy, high tempo, exploitation, deception, lethality, maneuver, and end state goals? A unit rolling @4 that can attack at all points of the compass versus a unit rolling @1 or 2 regardless of the cost is important. Mobile units are huge in G40.

Mechs and tanks are very important so that you’re stack of troops can move about the battlefield seeking opportunities of exploitation. Tanks are far from obsolete; and so important that it’s more fair for them to be priced at 6 IPCs rather than the original 5 IPCs.

Fraction of a penny…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7tVvx4Vv3M

I like the video. :)

The numbers are not percents. They are the actual strengths of the units when buying them. Lot of the time people look at the percent what the unit can hit when buying them, and that can be very misleading. You also have to factor in the cost to see the real strength is on that unit with attack, and defense.

I also factor in the subs sneak attack, and the two hits on the battleship and carrier.