Posts made by dannyboy2016

Only one doctrine of any type at a time.
So by choosing one of those land doctrines, say, Germany will be giving up opportunities to utilize say a wolfpack doctrine.

Taking a break from the Soviets for a moment, I’m going to make some suggestions to flesh out the concept of doctrine cards. I’ll probably go with the suggestion of being able to start with one at the beginning of the game. Only one Doctrine card may be played at a time. However it should cost a significant amount of money to change doctrines (ie 20 ipc range). When you change a doctrine the older one will be moved back into your hand.

While doctrines will be broken up into land, Air, and Naval doctrines, you still only get 1 doctrine card in play at any time.

Proposed German Military Land Doctrines

Elastic Defense Doctrine - In an elastic defense, the front line would be held by a minimal number of troops (to minimize the number of men exposed to artillery fire). During an attack, these troops would retreat. Reserves, who would be stationed nearby but beyond artillery range, would then counterattack and retake the front line.

Effect: Enemy artillery and supported infantry may not attack during the first cycle of a ground combat.

Schwerpunkt- Schwerpunkt refers to a center of gravity or point of maximum effort, where a decisive action could be achieved. The principle of Schwerpunkt enabled the attacker to win numerical superiority at the point of the main effort, which in turn gave the attacker tactical and operational superiority even though the attacker may be numerically and strategically inferior along the entire front.

Effect: If a German army is superior in size to any army it is attacking, then all enemy land forces may not retaliate during the first cycle of combat.

Kesselschlacht- Kesselschlacht (or Cauldron battles) were a concentric attack on encircled forces earlier bypassed by the Schwerpunkt attack(s). It was here that most losses were inflicted upon the enemy, primarily through the capture of prisoners and weapons

Effect: If any enemy land units are encircled (meaning that all surrounding territories are either sea zones or are controlled by enemy or Neutral powers) then they defend at -1 for the duration of combat. This includes units just encircled because of combat operations Germany made previously during its turn.

Blitzkreig- Blitzkrieg, meaning “lightning war”, in its strategic means is associated with a series of quick and decisive short battles to deliver a knockout blow to an enemy state before it could fully mobilize. The tactical meaning of blitzkrieg involves a coordinated military effort by tanks, mobilized infantry, artillery and aircraft, to create an overwhelming local superiority in combat power, to overwhelm an enemy and break through its lines.

Effect: German tanks, Mechanized infantry, and Tactical Bombers attack twice during the first cycle of combat.

Kampfgruppe- The Kampfgruppe was an ad-hoc combined arms formation, usually employing combination of tanks, infantry, and artillery (including anti-tank) elements, generally organised for a particular task or operation. A Kampfgruppe could range in size from a corps to a company , but the most common was an Abteilung (battalion)-sized formation.

Effect: If German tanks, Mechanized infantry, infantry, and artillery are present in a territory then they all attack at +1 for the first cycle of combat.

Volksstrum- Volkssturm (literally people’s storm) drew inspiration from the old Prussian Landsturm of 1813-15, that fought in the liberation wars against Napoleon, mainly as guerrilla forces. Plans to form a Landsturm national militia in Eastern Germany as a last resort to boost fighting strength initially came from General Heinz Guderian in 1944. Because the Wehrmacht was lacking manpower to stop the Soviet advance, men in jobs not deemed necessary or previously deemed unfit for military service were now called under arms.

Effect: German infantry cost 1 ipc less.

That may be a good way of doing it. Will have to consider it.

Okay here are some basic doctrine ideas based on the US
Combined Arms- Basically McNair’s baby. I’d say give some sort of combined arms bonus, for having, artillery, infantry, mechanized infantry, and Armor, and aircraft taking part in a battle. Also allow infantry and artillery to blitz when paired with a tank.

Superior Firepower - Use the overwhelming abundance in material and munitions to bomb the hell out of the enemy. Perhaps preventing units killed by artillery or bombers during the first cycle of combat from retaliating?

Carrier Group- Obviously this one would probably be shared with Japan and give bonuses of some kind to Carriers.

Amphibious Operations- Basically the marine national advantage from the 2004 game.

Air Superiority- Don’t know exactly how to represent this but consider events like the battle of the bulge. Once the weather cleared the American air force made it impossible for German vehicles to operate during the day. Maybe if you have more air units involved in a land combat enemy armor, artillery, and mechanized units couldn’t attack/defend during the first cycle of combat?

Aerial Convoy Defense- Would represent the use of airbases to protect convoys against subs. Basically give planes the ability to attack subs without a destroyer present.

Daytime Strategic Bombing - Something to give additional damage to American bombardments.

The British, by contrast may have a Nighttime bombing doctrine that would reduce the damage done but render the bombers immune from enemy interception.
Germany may have something like a night fighters doctrine that could undermine that advantage, but if they are using that then they aren’t getting the benefits of, say, Blitzkrieg.

These are just a few examples. Since only one Doctrine card would be allowed at a time, each country (besides China) would at least need 1 land, air, and naval doctrine to choose from. the Majors would need more, of course. That way doctrines would be a major choice. Will Germany really try to contest control of the seas and skies or will she focus on Russia. Will America focus on its air force (okay, that was technically part of the army then), its navy, or its army?

Obviously if I go this route and add doctrines as a unique card, I should probably take the suggestion of allowing people to draw one of each card type. Or maybe just let them draw five cards of any type at the start. America, for instance, wouldn’t have as many puppet cards as the Axis.

I’m still not certain if its worth trying to come up with a handful of doctrines for each country or just keep these as national advantages.

CWO Marc- If I did doctrines as a separate type of card, countries would only be allowed to have one doctrine in play at a time.

Ghost One- While I see your point there is the issue that it’d be very difficult to come up with multiple doctrines for each country. However we might make that work if we include things like air or naval doctrines and if some doctrines could be used by multiple countries (like Fleet in Being as a naval doctrine available for several countries, for instance).

@CWO:

@dannyboy2016:

Your mention of Deep operations and Maskirovka has given me another idea. What if I had “Doctrine” cards for each country. You could only have one doctrine at a time.

I don’t know if this would qualify as a doctrine, but the Americans and the British had a lot of disagreements from 1942 to 1944 over their strategic and operational philosophies.  The British favoured things like indirect blows around the fringes of occupied Europe (for example Churchill’s depiction of Italy as the “soft underbelly of the crocodile” – which, considering how mountainous Italy is, turned out to be naive when the Allies invaded there) and long, thin, rapier-like strikes like Operation Market-Garden (which failed).  The Americans preferred head-on attacks like the Operation Overlord landings in Normandy, and advances along a broad front like the drive towards the Rhine in 1944-1945 – a method of warfare I’ve heard called the “Ulysses S. Grant approach”.

“indirect approach” would work as a British Doctrine
“Superior Firepower” would work for the Americans
Blitzkreige and Volksstrum would work for Gemany

However, it is probably better not to have a Doctrine card type and just have these type of things as"national advantage" cards

Your mention of Deep operations and Maskirovka has given me another idea. What if I had “Doctrine” cards for each country. You could only have one doctrine at a time.

@Hobbes:

@dannyboy2016:

Deep Battle- Any interesting concept, but how would you depict it as a card? Also, wouldn’t you say the Doctrine more or less died with Tukachevsky a few years
before the game starts?

Deep operations theory was behind Soviet strategy during the entire WW2 and up until 1991. Since it consists of conducting attacks on a wide front with the propose of hiding the actual objective (which is attacked by a 2nd and 3rd echelons of armies) you can replicate it with something like this: if the Soviet Union attacks 2 or more contiguous territories and wins it can choose to freely move the surviving units between those 2 territories during non-combat, but always leaving 1 unit behind.

Maskirovka- I would consider this kind of tactics, but I’m wondering how to represent them in a card. Maybe something like a limited version of the lucy spy ring’s effects but that can be done every turn. Or maybe allow the Soviets to take their noncombat turn before their combat turn?

It can be something like the UK’s Enigma National Advantage.

Your idea about deep operations is interesting, though you have to admit that as a result of the pruges the doctrine took a major setback and the country had to basically relearn it during the war. Though Operation uranus is certainly a good example of that theory being put into practice. I could see it making for a good card though.

Re Maskirovka- yes, it could be something like that. Maybe it or Lucy could be a one time effect while the other can be used more permanently.

Both are good ideas.

Hey guys, I just got laid off in the middle of my trip.  Naturally, as I have no developed the powers of photosynthesis yet (on my to do list), I’ll probably have to devote some time looking for a job. Never the less I will discuss some of the ideas mentioned here.

CWO Marc- Glad you liked the Sorge suggestion. I don’t know how to really work the road of life in as Axis and allies doesn’t have encirclements. Certainly it was a major effort by the USSR and would be worthy of a card. Maybe it would work as something you could play if German forces threatened Leningrad by land.

Hobbes- While I agree with you on Goring’s General incompetence, he was still in charge of the Luftwaffe. At most I’d probably just give him a bonus for the purchasing of Tactical bombers (the type of project that he directed resources to as opposed to strategic bombers or interceptors). I don’t think Keitel was an idiot, just a sycophant. There is a difference. ;)

Your idea about having a single commander card have multiple roles, using Guderian as an example, is a pretty good one.

Re your other ideas:

Industrial Redeployment (IC from Ukraine to Urals)- is covered as an ability of one of the Soviet cabinet Ministers

Shock Armies (or your Guards Divisions)- Good idea! I could have some special token to put under Soviet Guard units. With a limit on how many you can have.

Deep Battle- Any interesting concept, but how would you depict it as a card? Also, wouldn’t you say the Doctrine more or less died with Tukachevsky a few years
before the game starts?

Maskirovka- I would consider this kind of tactics, but I’m wondering how to represent them in a card. Maybe something like a limited version of the lucy spy ring’s effects but that can be done every turn. Or maybe allow the Soviets to take their noncombat turn before their combat turn?

Siberian Divisions- is Covered by the Richard Sorge card. He was Stalin’s spy in Tokyo who was able to confirm that the Japanese were not going to help Hitler out, allowing for the release of those Siberian reinforcements.

Ghost One- The Winter war already happened before the game started. Russia actually controls some of Finland that they took in the war at the start of the game.

CWO Marc- Disadvantage cards is an interesting idea.

otahere34- Yes, some of the ideas you posted are already planned for card. :-D

I’m going to be in San Francisco most of this week for work, but I intend to have a full list of soviet cards and effects posted next week. Any suggestions for the Soviet Union would be most appreciated. Here is the big list of planned Soviet cards so far

CABINET CARDS

Lavrenty Beria
Lazar Kagnanovich
Georgy  Malenkov
Anastas Mikoyan 
Vyacheslav Molotov
Nikita Khrushchev
Nikolai Voznesensky
Andrei Zhdanov

CHIEF OF STAFF CARDS

Boris Shaposhnikov
Joseph Stalin
Semyon Timoshenko
Aleksandr Vasilevsky
Kliment Voroshilov

COMMANDER CARDS

Chuikov
Konev
Kuznetsov
Novikov
Rokossovskiy
Zhukov

CORPORATION CARDS

Tula Arms Plant
Uralvagonzavod Factory
Ilyushin Design Bureau
Tupolev Design Bureau
Chelyabinsk Kirov Narkomtankprom Plant

NATIONAL ADVANTAGES

Black Sea Fleet
JS 2 Heavy tank
Katyusha Rockets
Lucy Spy Ring
Pacific Fleet
Partisans
Sharashka
Richard Sorge
Stavka
Tank Guard Divisions
Trans Siberian Railroad

PUPPETS

Kim Il-sung
Khorloogiin Choibalsan
Mao Zedong
Josip Broz Tito

SPECIAL EVENT CARDS

General Winter
Great Patriotic War
Lend Lease USSR
Not one Step Backwards
Rasputitsa
State Defense Committee

Anything else you guys would want to see? I’d like to get Russia and the German set in stone first before moving on to the UK, US, Japan, Italy and then revising the minors.

@knp7765:

Whether or not any of the individuals that you use in these cards were accused/convicted of war crimes is irrelevant.  I know that the atrocities were a part of the actual history of WW2, but in Axis & Allies we don’t deal with that part.  We only deal with the military conflict.  So if these individuals participated in the military war effort, they should be included.

Here’s another way to look at it;  in many of our games, the Axis win and take over the world.  So, in that case, there would be no Nuremburg trials.  Those individuals that were accused of war crimes in actual history instead would be hailed as heros of the Fatherland.  Remember, it’s the victors that write the history books.

By the way dannyboy2016, love your artillery piece.  That’s the 800mm Gustav, right?

Yeah, that’s my basic way of thinking about it. If a game like Hearts of Iron can have people like Heydrich, Kaltenbrunner, Himmler, and Frick in it as ministers then I don’t see a problem with including people like Speer, Goring, Keitel, Jodl, etc. And if someone is offended by a particular card for some reason then they can just not use the offending card.

You are correct about victors writing the history. If Germany had won then “bomber” Harris would probably have been treated as a war criminal as would the vast majority of the Soviet government.

Finally, yes that’s the Gustav. Did you know they were trying to build a self propelled version of that monster? Speer canceled the project because it was so obviously wasteful.

For the issues of German Chiefs of Staff I’m going to take people from the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (Supreme Command of the Armed Forces) as well as people from the Oberkommando des Heeres (the Army High Command). Despite the names, the OKH was basically independent of the OKW until a few days before the end of the war. Thus I’m considering the following individuals for the Chief of Staff cards for Germany:

Wilhelm Keitel- Head of the OKW
Alfred Jodl- Keitel’s deputy
Reichsmarschall Hermann Goring- The Head of the Airforce (nominally under the OKW, had the highest rank in the German Military)
Grossadmiral Erich Raeder- the Head of the Navy through 1943 (nominally under the OKW)
Generalfeldmarschall Walther von Brauchitsch- Head of OKH through 1941
Adolf Hitler- Head of the OKH through 1945
General Franz Halder- Army Chief of Staff (under OKH head) from 1938 to 1942
General Kurt Zeitzler Army Chief of Staff (under OKH head) from 1942 to 1944

Grossadmiral Karl Donitz was in charge of the Navy after Raeder, and General Heinz Guderian followed Zeitler as Army Chief of staff. I’m uncertain about whether to include them as regular commanders or as Chief of Staff Cards. Would it be more fun for Heinz to be commanding an individual army (he got so close to Moscow, after all) or giving him an army wide bonus?

The Guderian question is particularly vexing to me. I think he was a great commander, but I also think he was the best Chief of Staff that the army had. Plus, he basically invented Blitzkreig.

Edit: Oh sweet, this was my 100th post. Now I’m an artillery piece. Bwahaha!

Soviet Chiefs of Staff
For the Soviet Chiefs of Staff I’m using various individuals who were Chief of the General Staff of the Soviet Armed forces during Wartime. I’m also using a few people who had the position of People’s Commissar for Defence during the war. Some people who had these positions won’t be represented by a Chief of Staff card as they either served for too short a time or I’d prefer to use them as a regular commander.

With Commander/Chief of Staff Cards, I’ll try to include a relevant quote from the individual in question.

Boris Shaposhnikov

“In any case, we will see a certain gradualism and advance steps in preparing mobilization in all spheres to a much greater degree than in 1914.”

Effect: Infantry cost 1 ipc less.

Joseph Stalin

“In the Soviet Army, it takes more courage to retreat than advance.”

Effect: Soviet infantry defend at +1 during the first cycle of Combat.

SemyonTimoshenko

“It is necessary to keep in mind the possibility of simultaneously conducting two, if not three, offensive operations of various fronts on a theater of war with the intention of strategically shaking the enemy’s entire combat capability as extensively as possible.”

Effect: If the Soviet Union attacks three or more land territories during its turn then all German units defend at -1 during the first cycle of combat.

Aleksandr  Vasilevsky

“Our offensive on Kharkov demands that we not lose time and we commit all forces so that we can draw off as many divisions as possible.”

Effect: Soviet tanks and Mechanized infantry have a move of 3, but still follow the normal blitzing rules.

Kliment Voroshilov

“Whoever can lift a rifle, should have one.”

Effect: Soviet forces attack at +1 for all cycles of combat, but their casualties are doubled.

@Ghost:

Great :-D all that sounds good, i love the pic for the GPW. also if you have the time could you post an update list of the card types thanks :lol: and keep asking questions about our thoughts it is appreciated.

Revised Card Types

Cabinet Ministers- Cabinet Members range from Civilian, Corporate, and Military figures who will aid the war effort in a variety of ways. Examples would include people like Albert Speer, Molotov, or George Marshall.

Chief of Staff- The Chief of Staff is a special type of cabinet minister who gives a benefit to the entire military. While you may have many Chief of Staff cards in your hand, only one may be in play at a time. For 5 ipcs you may replace your existing Chief of Staff with another Chief of Staff card from your hand. The dismissed Chief of Staff card is not discarded. Rather, it returns to your hand. You never know if you’ll need to call on his services again.

Commanders- Commander cards would be able to grant their special bonus to one battle per turn. So, General Chukov’s benefits could be used on both the German and Soviet turns but only during one battle in each of those turns. These cards’ benefits may stack, so you could have multiple commanders giving their unique benefits to a single battle. Commanders will have a skill level and rank for optional rules.

Corporations- Corporations give various benefits to the war effort but are located in a specific territory. If that territory is captured you no longer gain the corporation’s benefits until you can liberate the territory. Examples would be Krupp, various Soviet Design Bureaus, or Chrysler.

National Advantages- These cards would represent unique national advantages for the various nations that aren’t covered in the other types. A couple examples would be the Trans Siberian Railroad or Japanese banzai attacks.
Puppets- These cards represent people like Vidkun Quisling or Pu Yi. They give a onetime bonus to the occupied territory that they are from and are then (usually) discarded.

Puppets- These cards represent people like Vidkun Quisling or Pu Yi. They (generally) give a onetime bonus to the occupied territory that they are from and are then discarded.

Special Events- Special Event cards would cover unique events in the war. For example the establishment of the Vichy Regime in France would count as a special event. A few “what if” events would be included, like the proposed Franco-British Union, or German the conquest of the Archangelsk to Astrakan line. Events will require certain parameters to be met before they may be played. After use these cards are discarded.

@Ghost:

I agree with otahere34. you should not limit the cards for anything. what those people did was horrible but history is history and people who don’t like the cards having war criminals on them should realize that you can’t change history you can only remember it. if anyone doesn’t like them on the cards they should just take them out when they print them off.

(also for a French military leader you should get a naval one because of all the navy France gets on the board) i am looking for one and will tell you when i find one

Good, I’m glad people seem to be in general agreement about this. :)

Darlan is an obvious choice for the French naval leader. At first he served Vichy France but he eventually defected to the allies only to be killed shortly thereafter. Paying 10 ipcs may reprsent persuading him to join the winning side.

@Ghost:

How about for a commander,Chief Marshal Dowding of the British.he decided to keep many air units in britian During and after Dunkirk to prepare British mainland defenses. he could give an extra plane in Britain if the  card is played the turn after France is taken. :?

also can there be a card for the Italian Fascist militia and the communist conscripts. they would maybe be cards that cause inf to cost less for a turn or maybe cost less for the whole game and their defense is one less. :|

-also maybe an event card to rep  the Russian recruitment of women in large numbers for skilled jobs like snipers, pilots for planes and tank

Dowding will be in there (as will bomber Harris). The Russians will have a great patriotic war card that will give a one turn conscription bonus. Also they’ll have a chief of staff card that will permanently reduce the price of infantry by 1 ipc. I wan’t going to have a specific women card but I was thinking about using this pic for the Great Patriotic War.

Re: Fascist militia, I’ll look into that.

Oh yes, I’ve added a concept. Some of the cards will be chief of staff cards who give various bonuses (like the other commanders). You may only have one Chief of Staff in play at a time. You can hold onto a second chief of staff card, of course. Chiefs of staff wouldn’t be discarded if you switched them out (which you’d do at the start of a new turn). They’d go back to you hand but there should be some minor ipc cost for switching chiefs of staff so people don’t do it every turn.

@otahere34:

I really don’t think anything should be off limits. If someone is offended by something you make, then they can either choose to accept that even though they were horrible people, they did play a major part, and use your cards, or just not use your cards at all. That’s just my opinion though, and some people might object. I have no problem is what I guess I’m saying.

Yeah, I think I’ll go with your advice. People could just not allow the specific card(s) that offend them. If, for example, a Ukrainian person is offending that I’ve included Kaganovich (he was involved in causing the Ukrainian famine in the 1930s), then they can just burn his card and use the rest of the set. Or ignore the set entirely.

Since I’m (obviously) not going to include event cards/national advantages for committing atrocities, it probably won’t be a big deal to include cards of people who committed such acts. After all, if you are playing this game then someone is playing Hitler and Stalin anyway.

I have a question for those interested in this project.

I’m debating about whether or not I should include war criminals as cards. There are some individuals like Goring who, while sentenced to death for war crimes, played a major military role in the war. Others, like Speer, also had quite an effect on the German war effort. Thus I think that I should include some of the Nuremberg defendants as cards, even a few that were sentenced to death. With Japan, things are even tougher, because hundreds of Japanese were put to death for war crimes. I’d have practically no Japanese cabinet members or commanders to include if I discarded everyone executed or imprisoned as a war criminal.

I tend to agree with Justice Radha Binod Pal, the Judge representing India at the Tokyo trials, that these proceedings were a case of victor’s justice. I feel that way about some of the Nuremberg defendants as well (though others like Frank, Frick, and Kaltenbrunner certainly earned their fate).

Then there is the issue that several members of the Soviet State Defense Committee would be seen as some of the biggest criminals in history if the Nazis had never existed. I’m willing to overlook their crimes, given their importance to Stalin’s regime.

There were also major corporations (like krupp) that used slave labor, but I think that they were too important to ignore despite these crimes against humanity.

So I guess what I’m asking is who or what should be off limits? At the moment I’m just leaving out Unit 731, and people directly involved either in the holocaust (with the exception of Goring) or in the atrocious occupation policies in various conquered states. Should anything/one else be left off limits?

Also, for the cards, I intend on using black and white historical pictures for each card. I’m not going to go out of my way to include swastikas in them, but if the best picture I can find for a card happens to have a swastika in it then I won’t shy away from using that either. Does that sound fair?

Just a little update. I’ll be taking an idea from coachofmany, and including a rank and skill for each of the commander cards, to allow for some more optional rules. For instance, if you were to use FMG’s units then the cards could be tied to a specific commander piece on the board. His rank would then determine the range of his effects (ie a Major General would just affect the territory he was in while a Field Marshal’s effects could cover an entire front). There could also be optional rules where, in the event of a battle, the commander with the higher skill level gets his bonus while the other commander may not use his.

These would just be optional rules included in the big pdf when this project is ready.

I’m doing some more revisions to that set of cards for the minors. I’ve decided to cut Maurice Gamelin, since his role in things is basically over during the first turn of the game. I’d like to replace him with a Free French commander. I’m trying to decide if it would be better to replace him with de Gaulle or Leclerc.

From a benefit standpoint, both would probably give some sort of bonus to armor (not that the French will have many of those…). Leclerc commanded the 2nd armored division, and took part in the battle of the Falaise pocket as well as the liberation of Paris. As for de Gaulle, his successful tank attack against the Germans in Picardy was one of the few French successes in 1940. Plus he was an advocate of a professional army based on mobile tank and mechanized divisions. Unfortunately, his 1934 book on this topic sold way better in Germany than in France.

I’m wondering if it’d be better to not include de Gaulle since he’s basically the Head of Government (post capitulation) and technically represented by the Free France card.

Alternatively, I could use Resistance leader Henri Rol-Tanguy, but I think the French resistance is adequately covered in the vanilla French national objective. Plus, I’d like to use only free French commanders as the French commander cards.

Any thoughts on this?

@CWO Marc- I was thinking about adding Sorge, but I’m having trouble figuring out what his effects should be.  I wouldn’t want it to be something like forcing the Japanese not to attack the USSR or magically transferring all of the 18 Siberian infantry to Moscow. Maybe, if Germany is at war with the USSR and Japan isn’t then you could get some free reinforcements in Moscow to represent Siberian forces that were rushed there (including many tanks, which sadly aren’t in Holy Larry’s oob for Siberia).

Do you have any ideas on what Sorge’s effects should be?

@knp7765- That’s a good idea. It could work kind of like that Enigma Decoded British national advantage from the 2004 game except with a greater range for Soviet reinforcements to come in. Maybe any units within 3 or 4 spaces of the combat (and aren’t being attacked by land forces themselves) could be transferred to the battle, or conversely the Soviets could withdrawal all forces except one unit before the battle.