Posts made by Corbeau Blanc

Yea but even from France, it still forces the German bomber to land in Africa if you hit the southern Atlantic. We talking of shuffling troops trough Sea zone 22 and 23 here.

This means German cannot even land in Moroco Algeria or Egypt if operating from France. The only way to hit that US transport from France is to land in central Africa. That scenario is not likely to happen since you are shuffling troops in central Africa.

From game experience, that US transport is pretty much safe unless German Bomber is based in Egypt ( Or Algeria but I don’t see a German Bomber live long there ). If the German bomber happens to be in Egypt ( or Algeria ), well, the transport can rejoin the main fleet in one turn at Gibraltar sea zone 12 to drop in Algeria ( killing it if it’s there). Or simply go in Pacific if it’s needed there.

Also, at worst, you still can pop in Brazil whatever you need to protect it from a lone bomber if you really want to keep at it. In short, it’s too far for Germany to really be able to do anything worthwhile to prevent you from landing in Africa. Yet, 1 tank, 1 infantry per turn will make sure you hold Africa as long you sink German Transport with UK bomber if they went for Egypt G1.

Tactic: Brazil declaration of war.

As the US, I generally build an IC in Brazil turn 1
On the next turn, a single transport, 1 infantry and 1 tank
By third turn, this complex is dedicated to transport 2 units to Africa.

The transport being in the far south atlantic does not need escort, short of Germany moving bombers in France or fighters in Africa. ( But you can see it coming way ahead. )

Does not look like much but this strategy pretty much stopped Italy’s African adventure in all the games I played and did not require a massive fleet.

Oh, another thing, knowing i can bring troops this way in Africa, if I see Germany transport alone and taking Egypt turn 1, I always sacrifice UK bomber to sink it no matter what, and land in Persia. It might looks like 12 ipc for 7 ipc is a loss but Germany can’t rebuild that transport anytime soon.

To use a bad historic exemple, if Japan had Low Luck at Midway, USA would have lost badly.

I constantly have to play low luck with one of my friend as he beileive he is the most unlucky guy on the planet. This remove one of the most important aspect of the game, gambling.  I had to expressly forbide him from using the battle calculator so he had a bit of guessing to do but that barely helped.

With ADS if you want sure wins, you have to commit more than the bare minimum. Without it, the game lose much of it’s flavor. Opening are created, unexpected situations appears and it’s a whole new ball game.

In all cases, I find it strange that axis would see ADS going against them, especially on the russian front, Uk fleet or pacific islands where you already can do an overwhelming attack pretty much ensuring no retaliation can be viably made before round 2.

When I play allies with LL, It become only a game of numbers. All you have to do is contain your opponent after round 1, don’t offer him any stack, create deadzones and use your prod to slowly overcome him in stack strenght. It’s always a long game but I never ever sweated on theses LL. You already know the battle outcomes when you decide to commit forces.

So stacks and prod is in my mind the best allies advantage, in ADS you need even bigger stacks to really create deadzones aka making sure that if you attack, you win. ADS in my experience favors axis as long they don’t start to spread thin everywhere in a ‘‘must take 1st round’’ minding.

Did not read the entire thread but in all games I played as Germany, turn 1 the UK are left with 1 destroyer and 1 transport off the shore of Canada.

• Bomber/fighter/submarine to sink UK’s BB/T
• Submarine/2 fighters to sink UK’s cruiser/T
• Cruiser/submarine/fighter to sink destroyer/transport

Half the time I’m left with most of my units forcing the RAF to commit to sink cruiser.

So how it is wrong to purchase 1 sub in thoses conditions? Turn 1, UK fleet is pretty much whipped. Adding a sub force them to think hard.

I’ve tried other openings but that one was the best by far even considering egypt. I’m of the opinion it is easier to take S.Africa with Japan anyways and use Italian fleet to weaken russians with shore bombardment in Ukraine Caucasus the 2 first turns. By turn 3, I usually go all out and whipe egypt. I don’t feel thoses 5 ipcs worth rushing it when it is really easy to slowly choke it.

Consider that turn 1, Home fleet is whiped. UK has no way to get there short of weakening India. So they need to rebuild fleet turn 1, by turn 2 it is usally not in range to do anything, turn 3 is normally when they finally have a defendable force in atlantic but it’s too late for Africa.

I did not played enough games to generalise but contrary to revised edition, I beileive Germany has better options in the sea with her submarines, specially if using bombers to support them later on. ( even if sea is blocked by destroyer, you can still kill it and move some reserve subs in non combat to make it to open atlantlic where they become a pain). It’s no as easy for UK now since it cannot use it’s transports as fodder. Makes a huge difference.

I had a similar strategy than what the OP listed in Revised Edition.

It was not unstoppable but very much near it. It involved exactly that, flying japan fighters to secure the same territory: Ukraine. This made the german stack almost imposible to overcome by russians on G3 if G1 was full 8 tank gambit.

Then all there was to do is move the whole thing to menace both moscow and caucasus, leaving no choice to Russia to abandon the IC to germany. By then it was normally over a few turn laters as Russia was forced to turtle in moscow.

It was counterable as long you knew it was coming but I won so many games with it that I I had to litterrally give the counter away to my friends so they still want to play.

In this version, it looks way easier to do with Italy and territories layout. And frankly, I am unsure if I can find a counter to it. Admitedly, did only play one game so far so I did not experience it yet ( was playing allies )

I’m totally with you on thoses comments ncscswitch.

Also worth noting your 16 ipc CV will sink for more than it’s value if attacked, since you don’t pay for the fodder units already present there.
As stated before, you retreat the fighters to land when you know you can’t hold anymore. The CV and fodders will still do their job of taking out some allied units. If it does not, it’s because the allied fleet is massive enough to sink it in one swipe and that only means allies over invested in the sea/air which is also mission accomplish for the CV.

Not attacking the baltic means Berlin is safe from direct attack, good luck landing in France against a decent german turtle. I broken more than my share of so called KGF that way.

Russia cannot in my experience hold out against Germany alone even if germany buy an AC. They still need at least UK support.

Like Bigdog says, KGF and KJF are flawed since they leave one of the axis unchecked. It’s not hard to play turtle as germany and the AC G1 goes a long way to help doing just that. You won’t crack that nut before Japan reach moscow in a pure KGF.

You need a balanced approach

• Given the somewhat flawed strategic bomber rules
• Given the IC production down from 16 to 10 for germany
• Given that the baltic fleet is once again unable to defend itself ( worst than in revised)
• Possibility of AA guns in the sea would help to make the trip to Berlin less friendly for bombers via Baltic.

Some house rules for AA guns at sea:

• Battleships can provide one prefight AA gun cover ( maximum of 1 AA shot independantly of # of BB ). They still fight normally once combat begins.
• Have the option of mounting a purchased AA gun on a warship ( maximum one firing at a time as per AA rules; not on subs)
• Use sub pens from World at War unofficial expansion, thoses were great and represented the fortified naval bases. 2hits sea block house and work as a AA gun for 8ipc. Needs be adgencent to an IC

Change to starting pieces:

• Having a battleship in the baltic sea to start with instead of a cruiser would make it more flexible to defend round 1 instead of being forced to buy a CV while still needing an investment. Would give UK one BB too if they don’t have one.

We been discussing building an IC out of reach in the strategy section and so far it’s not promising even as a naval base, everything points out to France being the most viable and it’s still in range of ennemy air force.

As Germany, only viable way i see it would be to spent ipcs on techs until i get radar. Super subs and shipyard would still be good. Else i am of your opinion that you will end repairing ICs every turn.

So, spend Ipcs on tech turn 1. If unlucky, surrender :P

You will need at least a CV to defend baltic fleet from UK airforce.

Contrary to revised, i doubt you can use your submarines as casulaties against air attack and i’m totally sure the transports don’t count anymore.

So basically, adding a cruiser, makes it 2 cruisers vs 2 fighter and 1 bomber. I would hit you round 1 as UK.

CV is about the only unit that can protect you for the least investment.

Sub immunity to air might play against them when the fleet is under by air force since they can’t be hit. Or maybe you can still use them as casualties, will be interesting to see how it is handled.

Got a good tech for you guys to prevent bombing damage, even from nuclear devices:

• Good quality white paint

See for yourselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t_5wthG0Wc

/Lynxes

Well, i would have mention Italy been able to break blockade but did not think of it before. Also, i don’t think there is stupid ideas. In my line of work, i seen the stupidiest things being implemented, it’s scary eh.

Anyways. I was looking at the map and the issue of being blockaded and stucked in Baltic.

Why would the german player force himself being trap there?

• Let’s say you build an IC in France turn 1. A second IC for Germany seems a necessity in AA50 and likely France will be the popular choice.
• Let’s say you base your fleet right there in SZ7 from turn 2.
• Worst case scenario, Italy is preped for can opening planes at the ready.

Sz7 is the sea zone you want to defend anyways. Your strategy implies you will clean up the UK fleet round 1. Also that you don’t want allies to take France.

From round 2, i’m pretty sure you could mount up your GUARD effectively from France and there is hardly anything UK-USA can do to effectively block you in that position even without Italy air-force.

Hey, being overly ambitious, could prolly block all sea zone around UK but i’m not sure if a sub can prevent deploying in the same sea zone. Prolly not, eh.

For bombing raids, the damage done should mainly represent the production disruption rather than dwindle the IPC bank of the defender.

The way i see it, it should be:

• Ennemy bomber damage IC up to maximum the territory value.
• On the damaged IC nation turn, pay 1 ipc per prod slot you WANT to use.
• Buy your units
• Play the turn
• Place units up to current prod value
• All remaining damage is automatically repaired for free since slots were not used. This represent the effort put to repairs instead of new units.

Or even simplier than above, use current system but make it that infantry building is not affected by IC damage.

Both good comments from Hobbes and Squirecam. I’d rather no talk of VC conditions however, i never played with thoses in any versions.

Fact to consider for Germany IC production:

• Needs an additional IC, captured or built. It has only 10 prod compared to 16 in revised.
• IPC prod value of IC built
• Ennemy Bomber range
• Mediteranee access

France pros:

• Gives 6 prod
• Access to Algeria in med sea
• Acess to Baltic and sea zone 7

France cons:

• In ennemy bomber range
• In ennemy fleet range
• Needs to be absolutely defended
• Algeria sea is in range of ennemy air force, might be tough to get a fleet going in med.

Romania pros

• Safe access to meditaranee out of most ennemy air and fleet range
• Close the front line when infantry is needed.
• Close to indian ocean and caucasus for bridging.

Romania cons

• Lower 2-3 prod value
• Not adjacent to Germany

=====================================

Both options are good i guess. The biggest thing to consider is Romania safer lower prod versus the need to defend France but with a higher output.

I am assuming the Axis will only be able to defend Mediteranee and Baltic seas.  I don’t know yet how the Atlantic battle will go, maybe contrary to revised we won’t see the usual massive UK-USA fleet claim it on turn 2.  Depending on that, if Germany can actually take the offense in atlantic, France access to it might prove the better option. But if not, i’m convinced that if the need to defend it is still there, Romania is a better option.

I had bought back then an unofficial expansion called world at war. It was great actuallt, with sub pens and destroyers.

Anyways, the french and chineeses were sub nations much like it’s seems to be for chinesses in this edition. The plastic pieces were blue for France, i’m thinking i’ll use thoses for Italy.

@Krieghund:

@timerover51:

2.  Same situation as above, except the UK player also sends a fighter/bomber along in the attack.  The cruiser is sunk by the first strike of the UK sub.  Does the U-boat protect the transport, even though it cannot engage the aircraft, and the aircraft cannot engage it?

No.  Since the sub and planes can’t engage each other, the transport is defenseless.

True enough but i don’t see why the german would choose the cruiser to take the first strike instead of it’s sub.

It will delay a direct invasion of Germany.

Might want to spice things up and have your own transports. A combination of a CV early on and then full subs like you intended. I’m pretty sure you can still use your subs as casualties.

That way you maintain a sea lion threat while still enforcing your policy. The single destroyer will not prevent you to move in for amphibious assault.

At worst case, use Italy planes to kill that destroyer blocking your fleet. Can opener the way and then sink the main UK fleet with your strat on Germany’s turn.

I don’t see any IC in south africa. If UK spend 15 ipc there, i’d be even more glad to spend the same amount as Germany and have the means to build transports to take it out.

For the UK moving a destroyer to block sea zone so their fleet behind it can strike the next turn, i don’t see it as a great counter.

If german send it’s own ship to take the destroyer out, it will end it’s turn there and effectively screen the rest of its sub in the zone behind from an attack. Even if it is destroyed as casulaty to avoid air loss, German can move another ship in non combat move in the now empty zone.

German main goal is to defend baltic zone, which is still accomplished.

I based it on 3 ipc value. Even 2 is still ok. You should not have to build more than 2-3 boats per turn in any cases. The main goal is not to pop land units out of it. It is to give germans a naval base deep in mediteranee where USA and UK cannot interfer while also giving the option to send forces in Indian Ocean.

Contrary to revised, i am convinced naval warfare is a more viable solution to germany in this edition than waiting for allies to land. Thoses allies transports won’t be soaking damage anymore and will be vulnerable to submarines.

So yes, you might start with 36 ipc short in units facing Russia but consider that italy will use most of it’s income in Europe instead of Africa. Italy only need one tank collecting a bit of ipc in Africa once germans opened the door.

Besides, the CV for 14 ipcs in baltic fleet is really optional, build 6 infantry if you prefer or whatever. Myself prefer defend it but the strat here is about the IC and getting a German med fleet operational.