trulpen’s G2 DOW heading for Moscow
New player here - hope you are still active on this board - under this scenario, where Italy resources are needed for I3 can-opener, what is Italy’s recommended course of action in the Med and Africa assuming a successful Taranto raid on UK1?

New player here. This board generally says Sea Lion is a losing strategy because German resources are diverted from the Eastern Front, which is critical, and that the USA will easily liberate London within a couple turns.

It’s that second part about which I’m eager to hear insights. Germans have lots of air available to sink transports unless heavily escorted - and those escorts cost lots of IPCs which reduces funds for the transports - which need 2 turns to get to London stopping in North Africa.

How have you retaken London? What do you recommend?

@AndrewAAGamer New player here, congratulations on retirement! I eagerly look forward to your further insights!

@ampdrive it was 7 inf, 2 art, 1 fighter and 1 tac. First round wipeout of Yugo forces. Goal was to swing those 6 inf through for a G2 DOW. So this threw off my timing. I went ahead G2 DOW anyway and he turtled, at G5 I did not have the forces to take Moscow; delayed until G7. That gave time for Normandy landing and, embarassing as it is to admit, a surprise 1-2 Denmark - Berlin punch by USA and UK. I am a new player so I didn’t see that coming.

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris Thank you ABH! Current game just started - Italy survived Taranto (on dice) and captured Egypt, Trans-Jordan, into Iraq and Syria. This is a global game so Allies sent planes in from Calcutta to support a firewall at Persia; add tanks churning out of S. Africa and the writing’s on the wall for Italy’s Mid-East/Africa force going into turn 4 but they’ve tied up UK Europe pretty well (every 3 tanks is a couple of planes not built) and will hold Mare Nostra through turn 4.

It’s reassuring to hear from such an experienced player that no matter what I were to do Italy is generally destined to shrink into a defensive posture - I can see that my current 28 IPCs will be the high point for Itay.

At this point rather than reinforce the doomed expeditionary force I think I’ll commit all to defense of the mediterranean coast.

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris Inexperienced for sure, and big error in Pacific as I held Japan back from DOW until turn 3, with the idea of keeping the Americans out of the European war while Germany wins it for the Axis.

Japan’s delay meant they were on their back foot the entire game, never approached 50 IPCs and by the end (round 10) Anzac was almost producing as much as Japan and the Chinese and PacUK were out of control.

Reinforcement air from UK (both theaters) into Moscow stalled its capture until G9, and heavy American reinforcements in Egypt coming through sub-sahara would have made it impossible to take.

Axis was saved only by my opponent taking his eye off the ball in UK. I added dd’s and subs here and there in the mid rounds to the German fleet holding the channel. A quick transport/troop build G9 left him unable to respond to G10 Sea Lion, which held and ended the game.

At the end of the day, you were right, Italy’s success after the failed Toranto led to Axis victory.

@Panther Good point. Thanks!

You bring a BB and a loaded Transport to an undefended Sea Zone bordering an enemy-held territory.

You declare an Amphibious Assault, bombard the territory maybe taking out a defending unit…

And then retreat, before unloading.

A free bombardment.

Legal by the book?

Most of the highly experienced players in past posts seem to have held that German Sea Lion leads to a German loss because Allies will eventually recapture London and the Germans forego critical building against the Russians in the early rounds.

While that sounds right, I’ve not seen a detailed explanation of how that actually works out. In a current OOB game, Germany did Sea Lion round 3 with 11 transports and wiped out UK with a bunch of tanks left over, and a heap of transports who now threaten Leningrad, or Gibraltar. In this game Japan held off declaring war against US, wiped out Soviets in far east, and has Navy in Carolines and SZ 6 (it suffers with UKE and China growing unchallenged), so US has had to balance its ~50 IPCs on both sides of the board in the opening rounds.

With UKW wiped out, Egypt is not long for the world, although they did just repel an Italian assault. And at this stage it looks like Germany can grab 2 of 3 of Leningrad, Stalingrad, or Moscow before the US or any other Ally can help them.

That is all just to provide a real game example where the common wisdom about Sea Lion not being a long-term victorious strategy for Germany does not seem to hold.

I would appreciate any insights!

@Panther Good point. Thanks!

You bring a BB and a loaded Transport to an undefended Sea Zone bordering an enemy-held territory.

You declare an Amphibious Assault, bombard the territory maybe taking out a defending unit…

And then retreat, before unloading.

A free bombardment.

Legal by the book?

@Cornwallis They sent a couple waves of fighters first, it’s just 2 stops to Egypt through French West Africa. They landed a large land force there turn 8, it would have been too much to overcome in Egypt, especially as bad dice in Moscow left me with a lone occupying tank (and some bombers, see below). He should have taken Gibraltar which I held with only a couple Italian inf., but I think he didn’t want to lose any transports to S. Italy bombers.

G9 was the battle of Moscow, and also my Sea Lion build. I think his miscalculation was missing the 6 Bombers from Bryansk, who landed back in Germany after Moscow. They made the difference in London. He’d left his London factory damaged, focused on building Egypt forces. So in UK9 he could only add 6 inf and a Tank with his 41 IPCs. That gave him a total of about 17 land units in London which my 11 landing units plus air power wiped out. G9 and G10 blockers kept his massive relief force from being able to reach London from West Africa.

The pace of the game, basically sitting down to do one turn each week, may have helped take his eye off the ball. The Axis never out-produced the Allies in IPCs the entire game.

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris Inexperienced for sure, and big error in Pacific as I held Japan back from DOW until turn 3, with the idea of keeping the Americans out of the European war while Germany wins it for the Axis.

Japan’s delay meant they were on their back foot the entire game, never approached 50 IPCs and by the end (round 10) Anzac was almost producing as much as Japan and the Chinese and PacUK were out of control.

Reinforcement air from UK (both theaters) into Moscow stalled its capture until G9, and heavy American reinforcements in Egypt coming through sub-sahara would have made it impossible to take.

Axis was saved only by my opponent taking his eye off the ball in UK. I added dd’s and subs here and there in the mid rounds to the German fleet holding the channel. A quick transport/troop build G9 left him unable to respond to G10 Sea Lion, which held and ended the game.

At the end of the day, you were right, Italy’s success after the failed Toranto led to Axis victory.

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris Thank you ABH! Current game just started - Italy survived Taranto (on dice) and captured Egypt, Trans-Jordan, into Iraq and Syria. This is a global game so Allies sent planes in from Calcutta to support a firewall at Persia; add tanks churning out of S. Africa and the writing’s on the wall for Italy’s Mid-East/Africa force going into turn 4 but they’ve tied up UK Europe pretty well (every 3 tanks is a couple of planes not built) and will hold Mare Nostra through turn 4.

It’s reassuring to hear from such an experienced player that no matter what I were to do Italy is generally destined to shrink into a defensive posture - I can see that my current 28 IPCs will be the high point for Itay.

At this point rather than reinforce the doomed expeditionary force I think I’ll commit all to defense of the mediterranean coast.

@Stucifer @trulpen Thanks for your ideas. It does seem inevitable that post-successful-Taranto, Italy is going to be in a defensive crouch.

Tagging trulpen in case he receives the alert wants to add any thoughts.

@ampdrive it was 7 inf, 2 art, 1 fighter and 1 tac. First round wipeout of Yugo forces. Goal was to swing those 6 inf through for a G2 DOW. So this threw off my timing. I went ahead G2 DOW anyway and he turtled, at G5 I did not have the forces to take Moscow; delayed until G7. That gave time for Normandy landing and, embarassing as it is to admit, a surprise 1-2 Denmark - Berlin punch by USA and UK. I am a new player so I didn’t see that coming.

@AndrewAAGamer New player here, congratulations on retirement! I eagerly look forward to your further insights!

@Cornwallis I had several battleships and a destroyer, cruiser, and loaded carrier. Three
bombers and a couple fighters on Iwo Jima, but I used them all on the Japanese home navy. Didn’t strat bomb because I was concerned to do it with no escorts. Many mistakes.