What are you guy’s opinion on the following turn sequence for Axis powers

G1: build CV, DD, and SS–Germany takes France and prepares for Sea Lion + Russian invasion.
J1: Build Minor in Korea and Manchuria-- conservative Chinese attacks fleet amasses in SZ 36. They attack Russia in Amur with Manchuria+Korea+ Japan aircraft.

From there, Japan builds a major in Korea, and builds mixed tank/mech armies to continuously roll into the Soviet Union with full Air support always advancing. Factories stop producing troops after end of Turn 4 to focus on Self Defense.

Their Fleet goes around india fully loaded (3 TT lol) through canal that italy will capture and into atlantic to shield against USA attacks. (reaches SZ 91 by turn 7) They can retake UK if USA landed. or shore up med defenses/france.

Germany does Sea lion, but now with all the TT they have extra, they take remaining sea lion forces around to archangel for Turn 5 northern invasion. Land Army will invade to the south for the most part. They block US invasion with DD as long as possible and after Turn 5 their reinforcements go west to france+ med.

Italy’s only job (should be easy because of sea lion) is to capture Cairo+ hold it+ get bonuses+defend med from USA (Japanese help by turn 6-7)

Whole goal of the strat is to win by taking Cairo and three russia VC’s by turn 7-8 and then hold them. London not nessecary to hold, just allows Jap fleet through at canal easier and gives TT for northern flank invasion. Japan comes in the backside with air support and ground forces to crush Russia + sap IPC.

NOTE: Japan is being sacrificed, any IPC USA Puts in the Pacific is lost money= good deception by offering Juicy target. Thoughts?

@SuperbattleshipYamato

Excellent Point, the plan may not be the most flexible, however, it doesn’t seem like there is much the allies can do for the first few turns. Britain will be lost, Russia double teamed, and Japan doesn’t care much about China who will not leave their own borders. After Turn 4 though, depending on the USA’s buildup and focus could disrupt the plan. Additionally, I can see a lack of German forces for the land invasion due to their use in Sealion. It might need to be a G4 Invasion which is often considered too late.

What are some key deficiencies that you find with the plan and I would love to discuss. No plan survives first contact with the enemy after all.

I am trying a few Axis strategies where one side of the board does everything it can to help the other side.

I am trying to decide whether Germany and Italy helping Japan or Japan helping Europe is the best strat.

I feel that the game is geared towards Europe and so helping the pacific will throw off game balance and the allies will take too long to respond. (Russia and USA geared to fight in Europe + 1/2 UK). The USA has to go through Panama + 2 majors on Europe side while Russia all factories are in Europe far from pacific. London is poorly positioned to help.

However, I want to ask your guys opinions on which side would be easier and what general strat would be best in regards to the question?

I am trying a few Axis strategies where one side of the board does everything it can to help the other side.

I am trying to decide whether Germany and Italy helping Japan or Japan helping Europe is the best strat.

I feel that the game is geared towards Europe and so helping the pacific will throw off game balance and the allies will take too long to respond. (Russia and USA geared to fight in Europe + 1/2 UK). The USA has to go through Panama + 2 majors on Europe side while Russia all factories are in Europe far from pacific. London is poorly positioned to help.

However, I want to ask your guys opinions on which side would be easier and what general strat would be best in regards to the question?

@ampdrive

I do not have to Sealion I concede, I just do not see a point in building the fleet and not taking out UK threat.

You might be asking why I need the fleet. I do not, but I am using it to flank attack on karelia archangel area to surprise Moscow and take IPC’s. Bulk of russian forces will be at the front and only have one turn reaction time.

Then I can bring the fleet back to the atlantic if needed to retake london again.

Thoughts?

@shadowhawk

Thank you so much for your detailed counter analysis. Here are my thoughts to each of these:

1: The USA is a good point to bring up, however, based on my timeline, they will be unable to intervene adequately in time. They cannot make combat moves until turn 3 post London capture. On that turn, the ONLY units they can commit are air units. Although this does present a threat, it is a threat with massive risk and may discourage some players. Additionally, my sea lion plans include a minor invasion of Scotland to prevent strat bombers landing and retaking of London. Finally, if I saw them preparing for this, I could invest on turn 3 in an airbase in Holland Belgium to scramble to the defense. Again high risk for the enemy and not many players that I have seen do much with the fleet besides KAF post Sealion.

2: Very good point with the british fleet, I had never actually thought of that. It would require that they anticipate the coming of sealion on turn 1, and that they basically abandon their fleet and scramble few fighters on G1 to enable them to have planes for gibraltar. They would also have to risk aircraft only attack on SZ 96, not mush of a gamble, but they could loose a plane. In addition, G1 I could SS attack SZ 91 to cause them problems, and then on turn 3 I could commit more planes to SZ 110 it is only one carrier, one cruiser, and one DD at that point plus scrambled planes. I may still have my BB and some subs because of no/limited scrambling to protect fleet. I could definitely duke it out with them especially if I built more fleet ships on turn 2. Although it gets very risky to stretch forces like this to force sea lion, it is still mostly doable, and honestly, if it needs to be held off until G4 to be safe, I can do that too. Italy will be wrecking Africa and the middle east and the USA can only watch, not an Ideal situation in the least.

Your Pacific points I agree with less, and they mostly miss the fact That I do not need Japan to survive, in fact the ore resources committed to Japan, the better the strat will be.

3: J1 I am invading Russia and killing 6 inf with 8 inf, 1 mech, 1 art, and 3 fighters+ 2 Tac Bombers. (2 inf manchuria takes care of Buyant with Air support) More planes can be included if necessary. The following turn, even if they consolidate their forces, Buratyia faces with 12 inf and 2 AA the following force: remaining inf (should be 6-7), 1 art, 1 TK, 2 Strat Bombers, 4 Tac Bombers and 6 Fighters. Again I can use my air force all I want because I only need to hold out until turn 5. I DO NOT INTEND TO WIN IN THE PACIFIC.

4: leads me to this point, British will see a huge fleet coming to India and is unlikely to build ships for 2 turns. they will not be able to do significant damage until turn 6 ish against mainland Japan, so no matter. again this game is about draining Jap resources to win in Europe. China taking over is fine because they literally cannot leave China and Britain will be wasting resources helping them and not Russia. I will also land 2 inf and 2 art in Iraq when I get the chance to protect Cairo on the way to Europe.

Just to recap, I do not at all think your ideas are invalid. In fact two of them I had never before considered, however, with the right flexibility as Super Yamato said earlier, it should be able to be tackled. I want to hear your thoughts on this, your insight is very helpful.

Thank You for your time,
Classified_22

@SuperbattleshipYamato

Excellent Point, the plan may not be the most flexible, however, it doesn’t seem like there is much the allies can do for the first few turns. Britain will be lost, Russia double teamed, and Japan doesn’t care much about China who will not leave their own borders. After Turn 4 though, depending on the USA’s buildup and focus could disrupt the plan. Additionally, I can see a lack of German forces for the land invasion due to their use in Sealion. It might need to be a G4 Invasion which is often considered too late.

What are some key deficiencies that you find with the plan and I would love to discuss. No plan survives first contact with the enemy after all.

@SuperbattleshipYamato

I have not play tested it yet. I have done some extensive simulation and planning that is far more in depth than what I have posted. I have also play tested KAF and KBF strats, so I am pretty good at playing through unconventional and risky strategies. I love to abuse Axis victory rules and focus on one theatre which the allies can anticipate but not do much about due to political constraints and deception.

I am not in a position to playtest, but that is a wonderful offer and I do appreciate it. I wanted to see If I am crazy before committing to playtesting.

@shadowhawk
You are correct on the factory use rules, I won’t be able to use their units until turn 3 for minors and turn 4 for major. Thanks for the info :).

The reinforcements are going to be necessary, I am pushing all the way to Moscow to make a three pronged attack.
1: From South/ Stalingrad area from german land thrust.
2: North Archangel area from german amphibious landing
3: Japan Far East Land Drive
Goal is to win in Europe with three Russian VC’s and Cairo/London, Pacific is not going to survive.

As to the landing fighters part, It is very plausible that that could happen, I am going to be using almost the entire japanase air force + ground troops though, sooo don’t think it will be that tough lol.

Thoughts?

@shadowhawk

Japan turn one income is 26. Majors are 30. I need to start producing immediately to reinforce the push into the back of Russia.

What are you guy’s opinion on the following turn sequence for Axis powers

G1: build CV, DD, and SS–Germany takes France and prepares for Sea Lion + Russian invasion.
J1: Build Minor in Korea and Manchuria-- conservative Chinese attacks fleet amasses in SZ 36. They attack Russia in Amur with Manchuria+Korea+ Japan aircraft.

From there, Japan builds a major in Korea, and builds mixed tank/mech armies to continuously roll into the Soviet Union with full Air support always advancing. Factories stop producing troops after end of Turn 4 to focus on Self Defense.

Their Fleet goes around india fully loaded (3 TT lol) through canal that italy will capture and into atlantic to shield against USA attacks. (reaches SZ 91 by turn 7) They can retake UK if USA landed. or shore up med defenses/france.

Germany does Sea lion, but now with all the TT they have extra, they take remaining sea lion forces around to archangel for Turn 5 northern invasion. Land Army will invade to the south for the most part. They block US invasion with DD as long as possible and after Turn 5 their reinforcements go west to france+ med.

Italy’s only job (should be easy because of sea lion) is to capture Cairo+ hold it+ get bonuses+defend med from USA (Japanese help by turn 6-7)

Whole goal of the strat is to win by taking Cairo and three russia VC’s by turn 7-8 and then hold them. London not nessecary to hold, just allows Jap fleet through at canal easier and gives TT for northern flank invasion. Japan comes in the backside with air support and ground forces to crush Russia + sap IPC.

NOTE: Japan is being sacrificed, any IPC USA Puts in the Pacific is lost money= good deception by offering Juicy target. Thoughts?