However, until an offical document comes out, stating that things are other then orignally printed, the rule stands as is
You can go that route if you want but don’t be surprised if it just helps you smash the axis even more. Russia is already hard enough to crack if a smart allied player is in control of it. If you give it five more points a turn for just declaring war on Japan it just stacks the odds more in favor of the allies.
The axis may have more infanty to help out in Alpha but from my expereince it is much harder to repell the US when they come into the Pacific without those seven extra planes. Yes the US lost three planes but in early game it will have a much easier time building those 3 planes back than Japan will building 7 planes back if they want to keep America out of the war. Japan has so many enemies to deal with already.
I would like Alpha better if they added a +10 points a turn NO for Japan when not a war with UK, ANZAC, US as the Axis are at a bit of disadvantage in Global in either OBB or Alpha set up in my view.
If Italy is spending that much on fleet they won’t be sending many troops to the African front or their capital will be completely undefended. Also Italy is prone to lose fleet just getting the French and Brittish out of the Med. So if the US shows up with about 9 subs and 3 or so bombers that could smash the rest of any Italian fleet. Then once inside the Med Sea it would be impossible to get them out
I got to thinking about this today after playing a game against my friend and he sent subs to convoy raid me in Japan and sent the Russian sub into the Med Sea. I was able to stop the convoy raid in Japan but then I looked at the map in the Med Sea. I started to wonder how bad the Allies could convoy raid the Axis there.
Now lets say UK does not do the Italian Navy raid turn one and Italy’s Navy gets to live through that. We will assume that Italy then wins control of Egypt. What if America uses it’s starting Bombers, and starts making some Early sub purchases and a some more bombers early. It then puts enough inf and fighters in Gilbartar with its bombers to make sure it can’t be taken by Italy. The next turn the bombers and subs could sink the Italian fleet. Once the Italian fleet is sunk the allies can potentially convoy raid the axis for 18 points a turn for territories the border convoy zones there. Once the Italian fleet is sunk it would need to build a new one with at least one destroyer if not more. The US could then use the bombers in Gilbartar and the subs in convoy zones to sink the fleet before they could remove the subs. Once those subs get inside the Med Sea it would be next to impossible to get them out in my view.
To me this seems this would result in Brittan pushing back and also taking Egypt due to the fact that Italy is losing too many points to convoy raids. So that would be another 5 point loss for the axis and a gain in IPCs for the allies.
I believe the loss of IPCs to the convoy raids would make it easier for the US to spend major points after that in the Pacific to make sure Japan does not kill Australia or take Hawaii. The US could also build up more and more in Hawaii to force the Japan Airforce to stay close to home or they would risk losing Tokyo.
It would seem to me to be an effective tactic to slow the axis on both sides of the board. Italy would be spending not much more than ten points a turn even if it held Egypt and no ships were in the Med Sea. The US could then decide to either smash Rome on the cheap or try to maim Japan and stop it from reaching equal power. There would be no real practical way to get German destroyers in the Med Sea to remove the subs either.
The convoy raids in the Med would also remove 4 German IPCs a turn assuming the axis took Yugoslavia and Greece with Germany. I also believe the Allies could convoy raid Norway and Normandy to rub off 5 more German IPCs after that. It would be very hard for Germany to build destroyers to fight off these raids in Europe as well.
The axis can not do a similar tactic to the allies except in maybe WUS if the US were to allow it. But after the subs and bombers were built and sent off the US could afford to send most of its forces at Japan and feel safe that Russia and Brittan can hold there own against a weakened Germany and a near useless Italy.
The Germans could maybe Sea lion but they would have to go all in because as the UK player I would buy all inf the first two turns and fly the tactical bomber off my carrier into UK. Sea lion may be a viable counter but it would cost Germany big.
So I am curious on how you would counter the convoy raids by the allies?
If the allies get a sub into the Med Sea does that take away the NO bonus for Italy?
Thanks
After the allies have played a couple of games they should be smart enough to not lose England and India early. Or if they do lose England they will have made Germany pay so many points to get it that in my view it is probably not worth it considering US will get it back and Russia will get huge.
They can do the Italy Navy raid and still build 9 inf in England. That puts Italy in a bad position in Africa. That being said my friend and I have had a gentlemen’s agreement to not do the Italy Navy raid because by not doing it we have had more competitive games.
After one game of losing those 18 Russian Inf early an allied opponent will never do that again. They will fall back when neccesary and move forward when the oppurtunity presents itself.
I agree with building Japans Major Factory far away such as Malayia but that takes time assuming you are keeping US out of the war as long as possible.
In my view this game favors the allies but I am playing the axis and working on trying to figure a way out to win this thing.
If I were playing just Pacific I would play Alpha for sure. Now playing Global I just started using it and I am undecided so far.
Benefits for Axis
-America loses 3 planes it will probably have to spend points on and build and this can buy Europe time.
-Pacific Brittan loses 2 planes that in my games normally end up in Africa and makes things harder for Italy.
-Austrialia loses 2 planes that can be a problem for the axis at times.
Benefits for Allies
-I believe with Japan down 7 planes it makes more sense for US to spend some points in Pacific and venture past Hawaii.
-I believe the loss of seven planes slows Japan down and they have a harder time getting there economy going especially if US spends some points in Pacific.
Final Thoughts
My gaming group has played about 20 game so far with the allies winning around 80%, 10% draws and 10% axis wins in Global. Either we are just too dumb to play axis and can’t figure out how to save Europe or Pressure US enough or maybe the global favors the allies. I believe that to be true whether using Alpha or OBB.
I guess it’s back to the drawing board with Japan.
I wonder if at some point there will be an alpha set up for Europe that makes some minor tweaks.
I find it to be a big hurt for the axis to not have majors in their capitals. The crucial turn before an attack happans they can not build ten units. To prevent this they can spend 40 points to upgrade both but the allies are not really in a similiar situation anywhere on the map except maybe Austrialia but they are not supposed to be a major power.
Ok that makes sense. They would not be able to use it until they become allies with UK.
It sounds like you’re in favor of gaining income rapidly, then hitting the Allies. I’ve found the KEF to be so effective, however, that Japan’s efforts may come too late. Italy, in particular, is hard to defend if the Allies focus on it.
These are my thoughts exactly. When the big three (US, UK, Russia) go for Europe early it is hard to defend everything that needs to be defended. The allies have many options for landing spots and it is hard to defend them all. Yes Japan can grow to a huge country in the mean time but it is hard for them to hit Russia hard before the allies hit Berlin/Rome hard.
I helped the Axis out in Europe last game by using Naval Bases and sending my starting Japan fleet to the Med but the cost in the Pacific to the Axis were terrible.
I meant just being in the sea zone that borders the naval base. Not actually entering the terriotory. I know they can’t go off the coast of Africa but I am not sure about Cananda.
No question about it, if UK is out of the game and the US is forced to focus on the pacific, the axis will win. I think the objective of a good axis player is to take Africa with Italy, push carefully into Russia with Germany and force the US to focus on the Pacific first with Japan. How you go about that is up to you, but it is a race against time for the axis, if Germany can take Russia before the US can land in Europe then the axis should be well on their way to a win.
I think if sea lion is pulled off turn 2 because the UK player did not prepare on defense then it is worth it. Otherwise too many resources are required to take UK and Russia will be knocking on Europe’s door. If the US is in position it can normally get UK back when it enters the war with little resources.
Also is US aloud to put a fleet off the coast of New Brunswick before it is in the war? If so that means it could retake UK the turn it falls by useing the naval base. Or if US is aloud to be in New Brunswick can it not use the naval base there since UK and US are not actually allies at that point?
I am going to have to think long and hard how to stop US from Getting Norway because once they do and have a major complex there building fleet inside the straight means Germany has to pretty much fall back to it’s capital.
I don’t think a fleet in the Baltic will work because US bombers could crush it.
I ordered some similar chips off a gaming web site but thanks for the offer.
That sounds like a monster game.
It was a game that we played over 3 seperate days. I felt sure the axis needed Japan to help in Europe but it cost me in the Pacific.
short answer? The game favors the allies. You have to spread too thin as axis to defend everything the allies can do. you have to hope that the allied players miss your weakest points.
18 russian infantry needs to be looked at. we’re toying with as a house rule putting 9 groups of 2 infantry down throughout eastern russia, a return to the old AA setups. That stack of 18 causes huge issues for the few japanese ground units there, yes they can easily be wiped out on J1, but that slows the japs down wayyy too much. Of course i’m talking OOB setup, because 1) I don’t recognize the alpha setups until there is an official rulebook reprint and 2) I don’t want to spend 1/2 my life waiting on LH’s forums.
short answer? The game favors the allies. You have to spread too thin as axis to defend everything the allies can do. you have to hope that the allied players miss your weakest points.
18 russian infantry needs to be looked at. we’re toying with as a house rule putting 9 groups of 2 infantry down throughout eastern russia, a return to the old AA setups. That stack of 18 causes huge issues for the few japanese ground units there, yes they can easily be wiped out on J1, but that slows the japs down wayyy too much. Of course i’m talking OOB setup, because 1) I don’t recognize the alpha setups until there is an official rulebook reprint and 2) I don’t want to spend 1/2 my life waiting on LH’s forums.
You seem to be on the same page as me on this one. I think the game favors the Allies. I like Alpha set up but I think the axis need a little more power to go with it in Europe. Maybe a bigger starting German Airforce to buy them time and force allies to build more fleet? The best I have been able to do with Axis was make it hard for the allies to win the game by building large amounts of inf and art. That being said it did not really put me into position to win the game and get the victory cities I need.
The key fact people are missing here is that as the Axis player you don’t have a clue where the US is going to go until 1 turn before they show up there. The US heads to Gibraltar. If you invest enough of your starting resources to create a scenario (one that won’t last beyond a couple of turns, mind you) where you can trade Norway with the US for a couple turns then the US just stomps Italy instead. You under-defend Norway then the US heads there. You (somehow) come up with the forces capable of doing both, you’re not putting any pressure on Russia and are giving them an opportunity to push deep into Europe, possibly even to Berlin. We’re at 20+ games now, 1 legit Axis win, 2 draws, 18+ allied wins. This is even with a gentleman’s agreement not to do the Taranto raid the last 5 games or so because it’s so ridiculously broken.
That’s why you build a few subs and keep bombers on West Germany. They can reach Z91 and land in Holland. The key to Germany is delay delay delay until Moscow falls
The UK could put a destroyer in sea zone 110 to block the subs then only the bombers could reach. That would not be enough to pose a threat to US fleet in sea zone 91.
@Calvin
How are you cracking Moscow and what is Russia building? I am not trying to be disrepectful but I have not been able to crack Russia and neither has Chompers. Do you wait for Japan to do it? If Russia builds nothing but inf and art they get to be to huge numbers fast especially if they conserve their starting forces by falling off the borders. I have tried to get Russia with Mechs and Tanks with Germany but the problem has been too many Russia units by the time I get there. At that point US is landing even if it has been doing Pacific Spending. I have tried to build all inf and art with Germany and march forward and that has been more effective but I still have not been able to sack the Russia capital.
It seems Russia has so many points to spend and builds all cheap effective defensive units with art to give ability to counter attack and drive the Germans out when America and Brittan are landing.