@Cmdr:
Not to my knowledge. To my knowledge he’s only talking about reassigning equipment in the Atlantic and moving the Mexican NO to anywhere else.
IMHO the Axis could use a little more help than that.
It looks like I will have to go back to the drawing board to find a way to win as the Axis against my friends :( Operation Sea Lion here I come!
@Cmdr:
That all depends. You can still choose to move German fighters there and use those, or you can keep your fighters for Germany nad use the Italian ones.
That is true and I did not think of that. That means when the UK takes it’s first turn I get to pick my poison at least :(
Any word if LH is going to do anything to give Japan a boost? I would have preferred to see Italy stronger or Russia weaker but at this point I will be happy with anything the Axis get to give the game more Balance.
I tried a similar move to this before, but i was just thinking… What if Japan comes around south america and takes brazil and builds an IC there?!? Could be crazy…
Well in the plan I was thinking of time is of the essence and if the Axis do not sack Washington they pretty much lose the game. I am not sure a minor in Brazil would hold for Japan very long with the USA having 3 major factory’s a stone toss away.
@Cmdr:
Yes, I enjoy it as well. The talk is relocate Fighter, TB to S. Italy, convert TB into SB.
I think it is cool to save some of the German Air Force and all but that means if UK does the fleet raid on it’s first turn Italy will lose most of it’s Air Force with most of it’s Navy.
That is a large amount of real estate to lose before even taking their first turn…
I think that the biggest thing that needs to be changed in Alpha 3 is to either strengthen Italy or weaken Russia. Rather than reward the US with NO’s for its involvement in the Atlantic, I think that the starting placement needs to be adjusted so that Russia’s survival depends on the US opening a front in Western Europe.
For the Italians, I would suggest either combining the Italian fleet into 1 sea zone or modify the Italian air force to give it more punch. As it is, Italy has too few resources to be effective against the Russians and it is never able to stand up to the Americans in the Med.
As for the Russians, I would eliminate the Archangel bonus when at war… as it is, Russia is able to stand against Germany without US involvement. I think that decreasing their bonuses while at war is in order.
I am very much in agreement with you about Italy. I asked LH for Italy to get 1 Destroyer so that the half of their fleet with 2 transports would not be destroyed on UK’s first turn so easily and risk free. I would be thrilled if he just did some combining of the fleet as you suggest or beefing up Italy’s Air Force. That being said I don’t think he agrees with me about Italy so the best we may see is Italy swapping out one T. Bomber for one S. Bomber. I don’t think just doing that will result in the balance we are looking for though…
Maddog,
If the US reinforces Hawaii every turn, it’s pretty much impossible for Japan to take it, unless they put a lot of effort into, which means they are lacking in other areas. This is even if the US goes for a KGF strategy, which I agree is the best option for the Allies.
I totally agree. I have found it a far more effective Allied Strategy than going after Japan first and i have tried both/fought against both a couple of times now. So I do think the 100% Pacific first crowd is right about the game being broken. That said I do believe they are only looking at part of the picture and not the whole.
If Japan could take Hawaii and pressures the USA that would be a pretty decent counter for the Axis. Yet as you said the only way to do that is to sacrifice in other areas which imho ends up defeating the point.
Landing on Gibraltar does not automatically bring the US into the war. It only allows the US to declare war.
What if Germany took Gibraltar first and then Japan landed there? Would that allow the US to declare war? My friend has done an Italian can opener on me where he takes Eastern Poland with Italy. Then on Germany’s turn he moves into it but does not declare war on Russia and still collects his five point bonus. This would seem like the same principal to me.
@suprise:
Frank T
When we play we randomly draw the round flags out of a cup, this way its pretty rare that one person is always a certain country. sometimes it happens I’ve pulled Japan 4 times in a row. (with ALPHA+2)
Four of our players have been playing since the mid 80’s the other one or two, depends on who shows up have 10-12 yrs the other has been hooked for 3 yrs. Hes here every weekend
The Axis wins are usually from better dice or a mistake on the Allies part. sometimes its the frame of mind your in bummed out cause your one of the Axis or pumped because your one of the Axis
I have yet to try the OOB set up for Japan instead of the ALPHA+2 set up
Well you guys have been playing this a lot longer than me so you have a good bit more experience. I do get much more pumped up to play the Axis in my gaming group because I feel it is a hard challenge for me to win with them. And for the record I think Alpha +2 is supremely better than OOB.
The one thing I have encountered is if the Allies dont make a major mistake then they usually win no matter what the Axis did.
Two things :
#1). Never post your strategy until you’ve tried it out first. :-D Now everyone will know what’s coming. And foil your plans…
#2). I think most competent US players will see what’s coming and build ground units the first 2 or 3 turns and foil this plan.
I probably should have tried it first to see if it has any merit but I thought I would post it on here to see just how bad people rip me up :-D Either that or I thought somebody might see something to add that I missed :)
That could happen…
That Russian Sub build killed me for awhile but I think the German Air Craft Carrier buy on it’s first turn is a very good counter.
I think putting the UK fleet in Sea Zone 92 is almost as devistating as taking out the 2 Italian transports but it sure hurts as Italy to not have those transports on it’s first turn. Especially if the USA is heading their way first. Also any German planes the UK fleet manages to take out is kind of like a bonus at that point…
As far as I can see Japan can only take Hawaii J2 if it attacks J1 to clear out any US blockers so it can move it’s transports it builds to Hawaii J2. That activates the US immediantly and will also mean UK and Anzac can nab some bonuses. That is a heavy price to pay to sack Hawaii early.
@Cmdr:
Aye, I am just saying I feel Germany’s only real chance of victory is to take London and then kill Russia. I am not saying this is a great strategy or one that will even win most of the time, like I am saying the American Pac-Strat is. There’s just no possible way Japan can hold out against America for 10 rounds if America goes all in to the Pacific giving America a full 3 rounds to secure a victory city, if not 4 or 5 rounds to do so.
A German occupied London is pretty sweet for Italy to say the least. I hate when people mess up my Italy :(
@suprise:
In all our 20 or so games its been about 50/50 so I think its balanced. My vote was that Japan is a little weak . Its the only Axis I’ve yet to see become a powerhouse and take the game
I like the last option to vote for, and ya wonder why people are constantly wondering what the rules :)
Darn 20 games and 50/50? In our gaming group the Allies are pretty much consistently taking care of business against the Axis…
Ya and then it’s not a 100% pacific Strategy Jen. Which is my point.
America is REQUIRED to build in the atlantic, or they will lose. You force them to do it, by playing as if they were never there. Voila. Problem solved.
I still think Germany performing a True Neutral crush would be a pretty sweet Strategy to make the Allies pay for having USA spend all their points in the Pacfic…
If the US is forced to split it’s income their could come a time where it could haved saved the day at Hawaii or get much needed support to a victory city in Europe but it’s hands will have been tied because of polictial rules and the Axis will win.
To be honest I don’t really want to win that way. I respect your position but I do disagree with it. I would love to see the Axis made a little stronger but I am actually feel pretty comfortable with the USA staying as is for the most part.
@Cmdr:
That said, London is far easier and more rewarding than Russia, I think.
Agreed.
My thinking has moved in this direction also. After dieing in the Russian winter in too many games I am thinking Sea Lion may be a viable alternative to achieve victory after all…
I view it less of achieving victory so much as staving off defeat!
Don’t get me wrong I do believe the game is still broken in favors of the Allies between two semi skilled opponents. I am all for making the Axis somewhat stronger.
That said, London is far easier and more rewarding than Russia, I think.
Agreed.
My thinking has moved in this direction also. After dieing in the Russian winter in too many games I am thinking Sea Lion may be a viable alternative to achieve victory after all…
I put Russia is too strong, but… as a second, I also believe italy is too weak…
I super agree! That is what I am talking about! I think if those two issues are addressed we will have a much better game on our hands.
I also like the idea of the minor in Romania you guys were talking about.
I was looking at the board and I saw what I think might be an opening to capture Washington or severly maim America as the Axis. I noticed there is a creative way to get most of Japan’s Air Force to Gilbraltar before USA is allowed to enter the war. I am not aware of anyone else posting this elsewhere so if this has been mentioned before please forgive me.
To start Germany would need to build the Baltic Fleet on it’s first turn, 1 carrier and 2 transports. Nothing suspicious about that build that would cause the Allies to expect that America is the first target.
Japan would need to move it’s 3 carriers and all of it’s fleet that start in range to Sea Zone 26 boardering Hawaii on it’s first turn. There would be no declaration of war but the Japan Navy would sit peacefully in Sea Zone 26. Japan would need to position it’s Air Force aside from the 2 Str. Bombers to be at the Carolines on it’s second turn.
Germany then purchases 2 Air Craft Carriers on it’s second turn and uses all the rest of it’s points to fend off Russia. It will be important to make sure Russia does not make it into Germany to peel away any victory cities should Operation Hollywood be a success. Germany will also use the Baltic fleet it built on it’s first turn to capture Gilbraltar if the Italians were not able to do it on their first turn. The German Air Force is also used to paste an UK ships that could threaten the Germans or Italians. Italy builds 1 transport on it’s first turn. If Italy was able to capture Gilbralar on it’s first turn then I would land the German Air Force there.
On Japan’s second turn it will need to move it’s fleet that could make it to Sea Zone 26, especially the 3 carriers to Sea Zone 28 or 11. Japan will also need to purchase an Air Base at Marshall Islands and fly the remainder of it’s Air Force there. Again Japan will remain peaceful with the USA. It will be important to move the rest of Japan’s Navy that could not make it to Sea Zone 26 as close to the American coast as possble, especially any transports.
At this point America is probably pretty suspicous of Japan and in response they may have built their Navy up big time to defend the West Coast and Hawaii. I am not sure how suspecting the American player will be of the 2 German Carriers that were built on G2. They may not realize that they were built to land Japanese fighters and tac bombers on in hope to crush Washington.
Really what happens from here depends on what America has done in response to the opening Axis moves.
If USA built up heavy in the Pacific in response to Japan being off their coast and left a token force in the Alantic due to the Baltic Fleet I believe it opens a huge window.
The Germans on turn 3 would move all 3 of their carriers either to Sea Zone 91 bordering Gilbraltar or even closer to America’s Coast. This would provide a place to land 6 Japanese Fighters on Japan’s third turn in the Alantic. The rest of the Geman Navy would move with the 3 Carriers, including loaded transports. The German Air Force would remain at Gilbraltar.
On Japan’s third it would move it’s entire fleet including transports to Sea Zone 64. The Fighters and Tac Bombers that started on the 3 Carriers would then move their legal 4 spaces of movement onto the 3 German Air Craft Carriers that were built. The Japanese planes that were on Marshall islands where the Air Base was built would move 5 spaces to refill the Japanese Air Craft Carriers with 6 more planes. Japan would then declare War and there is a good chance the USA will have a very large fleet off the West Coast in Sea Zone 10. If that is the case Japan can leave a blocker in Sea Zone 11. This guarentees that the American Fleet will be stuck in the Pacifc where the Axis want it to be.
From here Germany, Japan, and Italy can look for an opening by opening up the Panama canal so that Japan can attack Washington with it’s Starting Navy/Transports in it’s turn, and at least 12 planes between it’s Carriers and the German Carriers. There will surely be some kind of Force in Washington but there is a good chance a large American Navy has been trapped in the Pacific. Between the 3 Axis powers and 2 Major Air Forces they just may be able to pull it off. Italy can also be used to open up spaces for the German Air Force to land should it be needed to assault Washington fleet as well.
The Americans may manage to fend the attack off but it would leave a huge Mulitnational Navy sitting off the Cost of Washington. It would at least be fun.
The downside is if the Axis don’t get Washington that they would lose the game because Japan will be maimed by the other Allies in the Pacific with out it’s starting Navy and Air Force.
Any feedback?