Posts made by cenator01

“The cruiser should not have been used that way, or lost that way… after you read the rules about subs, you won’t make that attack again.”

Thats not true. If the sub chooses to keep on fighting, the cruser can and probably will sink the sub. If the sub submerges, you can still land your forces into Vyborg.
The only thing you did wrong in this fight was, that the USSR could as well scramble one plane from Leningrad, and therefore, would most likely sink your crusier and destroy your fighter and you won’t be able to land into Vyborg.

@Kreuzfeld:

actually, you are entirely on the “kill 3 inf”

first off all, you are assuming the axis will defend weakly, on the shores. many axis wont do that, secondly you are assuming that you could not get the same result by adding planes, and the planes would gain something by not helping.

an eksample would be

invading with 2 inf against 1 inf, with 2 Cr,  against 1 inf, your average losses is 1.5 ipc

invading 2 inf against 1 inf with 2 ftr support, you take 1.3 IPC in losses

the inf you have left, will attack defend and kill about 1.5 IPC on defence.

most axis players will deny you the advantage of doing microinvasions agains weak stacks.

I am not assuming the axis is weak defending! Thats the point. You won’t attack a stack you are likely to loose against with air, but you can with crusier bombardment. UK does not really need 2 additional infantry, but needs to distract Germany from solely focusing on the USSR. So attack a Stack of ANY size with 2 Inf and 2 Crusier bombardment. You have a reasonable chance to inflict 2 losses by shore bombardment for the loss of two infantry. Every plane you would have sent would be lost. Thats my point.

To get to your point:
invading with 2 infantry against 10 Infantry would economically be prefareable with crusier bombardment and not by sending in planes. Thats what I wanted to say.

At last: Infantry and fighter are the most valuable pieces in play. Best Bang for the Buck. But if you need to add to your fleet and you are thinking about a destroyer, just keep in mind, if you are planing to start a lot of amphibious assaults it just needs 4 landings until the crusier (1) will give you a benefit.

@Kreuzfeld: As far as I read this discussion, we were discussing by comparing crusier to destroyer or submarines, not to planes. Planes are always the better by than ships.

As I stated before, UK (Europe) is the only nation benefiting from crusiers. They can bombard every turn, need a fleet defense and are not in the position to build Battleships for this duty. You just need to kill 3 German/Italian Infanterie to be “equal” to building Destoyers. (2 Crusier instead of 2 Destroyer). This will be accomplished with approximately 3 amphibious landings in Europe. Afterwards they will effectiveley save you money or Infantery or at least cost germany 3 IPC every landing, succesful or not. A Fighter might be cheaper and even better in attacking a terrretory, but it is possibbly lost to bad dice, a bombarding crusier won’t get sunk while bombarding.

To me, the UK could need some.
Why:

• not so expensive as an Battleship.
• helps defending your fleet
• can make coastal bombardment, when you want to take a terretory
• can make coastal bombardment, when you just want to weaken the enemy, while you don’t want to risk your precious planes in a fight you will loose, or if you need your planes else where (soften up Normandy for example)

You could as well use some with the US, ANZAC, Japan or Italy

A standard USA move cannot be presented. Too much is depending on the starting moves of Germany and Japan.
What you shuld do as the USA is the following:

• How does Europe and the Pacific look like. Can the UK harass Germany and Italy or does it need immediate help to do so?
• Where did Japan move its fleet.
• Did Japan attack the small fleet around Hawaii?
• Is it safe to move the US-fleet to Hawaii to threaten immediate counterattacks on turn 2 and to pin down Japanese forces?

suggestion: Reinforce the US-Fleet on turn one.
about: 1 Transport (7), 2 carrier (32), 2 Submarines (12)

• You can leave your transports to die, if you can take a valuable island, just always keep new loaded transports comming. Japan is quite short on groundforces. You can force them to use their ground forces to retake some islands.
• threaten an attack if japan doesnot keep its fleet together.
• Stay out of their airforce range in the beginning (so they have to move their airforce in unfavorable position to attack your fleet).
• Sacrifice your fleet, if you can inflict a lot of damage by doing so (especially in the early rounds) and divert Japanese forces from attacks on India.
• Try to kill as many groundforces with china as possible.
• Setup small counters with ANZAC. Keep at least 1 loaded transport in reach to JAVA.
• Use ANZAC Forces to destroy lonely Japanese transports or small fleets.
• Maybe sacrifice ANZAC forces to weaken Japanese positions (like 2 loaded carriers, a battleship and 2 destroyer with 3 fighter 1 destroyer and 1 crusier) to crush them with the US.

In addition: Use the 18 Russian infantery to threaten Manchuria and Korea. If Japan needs to take care of them, India is releafed at least one turn and the south pacific should be open for counter attacks.

@Young:

I have been complimenting my J1 attack with a G1 attack on Russia (not a popular strategy, but I stand by it), anyway… that’s for another thread.

I would be quite interested, in how it works out. Seems like a lot of lost infantry and some tanks due to some russian counter-attacks, or do you spare some of the british fleet attacks? To me it seems quite difficult to attack France, Sz111, Sz110 and some russian terretories. Something could defennitely go wrong. Maybe just start another thread and explain how you do it.

Just one more comment on an additional UK complex on the pacific half of the board:
I think, they added UK-India and ANZAC to Global 1940 just for the reason, to make the game more fun and interesting for the japanese player. In most cases the game is won or lost in Europe, not the pacific. So fighting Japan is not reasonable. You can do it for fun, but fight germany to win the game.

my 2 cent.

Yes, Carriers and aircraft move independently, but the rulebook just states, that warships may not move …! It states nowhere, that aircraft can’t move to any seazone. They are not allowed to land on any allied terretorry or aircraftcarrier, but they can of course fly ther and if there is a legal landing spot, land there. The planes are not restricted to not move into the atlantic, they (in most cases) can’t land and therefore can’t stay there.

You can’t Blitz a neutral and you have to end your move there.

See Page 10, A&A Europe 1940 rule book.

I think, that’s the way to go.
11 or less victory cities is too easy for the axis.
12 victory cities for less experienced axis players (7VC on europe and 5 on the pacific side seems like the allies are loosing on both sides. Only 1 victory city to go for eiter a european or pacific win).
13 victory cities for experienced axis players (Win on one side of the board but don’t loose the other)
14 victory cities seems to be too difficult, but if you want a challenge as the axis, or if you really, really want to play the axis

Keep it global, even for the axis. (My personal opinion.)

As far as I can see, following comments:

• If Japan attacks the stack of Russians, they will quite loose airforce and ground forces, making it much more difficult to keep up the fighting with India, ANZAC and the US.
• If Japan does not declare war on the western allies, UK and ANZAC will ALWAYS declare war on turn 2 (even for just picking up their 3 National objectives). There is Never ever a reason for UK/ANZAC to not declare war on turn 2. The US will declare war on turn 3 anyway, and if not attacked by Japan, collect more income due to the Phillipines and keeping quite some more fleet and airforce.
• By focusing on Russia for 2 turns, Japan already surrenders. The US focusing the first 2 turns in building up and consolidating their pacific fleet and India&Anzac taking the mony Islands, Japan won’t get going, but will be contained very quickly.
• A contained Japan within the first 4 turns means, the European Axis have NO chance of winning, except for perfect dice.

I personally dislike the splitting of the axis victory condition in pacific and europe part. This is what really makes the game feel like 2 seperate games played simultaneously.
Just go back to the original rules (Victroy cities over the whole globe) and bid for victroycities to determine the axis player.

As my opinion:

The US has to harass Japan as fast as possible, while Germany has its weak times, just in the first three rounds. germany usually lacks infantery on turn 2 to push their offense against the USSR.
So the US builds up a medium sized fleet in the Pacific. (including at least 2 loaded transport). Keep the fleet slightly out of range of the main japanese airforce/fleet but position to take a money island or two, remove a national objective from Japan, etc. Force them to defend a lot of places (eventually leaving one vulnerable for an attack) or force them to try to come after your fleet (1 turn the japanese fleet/airforce moves out of position) and fall back. Therefore you do not need a decesive victroy, but distract Japan from its main objectives. Maybe you have to sacrifice your pacific navy to an combined airforce and naval attack by Japan, as major distraction.
The difficult seems to be, when to turn your attention to the atlantic. If its too late then its game over.

The main point is the following:
You are forced to react on the Japanese opening round. Is Japan going straight after India, is Japan trying to take the islands first or is japan going for Russia?
UK and China should try to whittle down the japanese ground forces, while the US needs to build up some fleet, to force Japan to invest into expensive and not too useful warships.

To even this out:
Make your first turn as the axis and then take a look again.
If the axis (Italy) gets the first turn the overall setup will schow a dramatic change:

Just some things that will happen:

• France will be occupied (loose France and lots of troops)
• Navy around UK and in the Med will get smashed
• Fleets all around the pacific will get lost
• Lots of allied ground forces will be destroyed

Just try your first turn and then check out the standings on the board.
The allies will loose at least Units with an value of about 200IPC or more and the income will be reduced by approximately 30 IPC (or even more) leading to:

Income:
Axis: 96: Allies:145
Worth of Forces on Bord: Axis ~ 1200 Allies ~ 1100 (without what will be build)

The allies can produce 29 Units in Europe and Asia while the Axis can produce 42 Units in Europe

In fact, a UK industrial complex is, whats missing in this setup.

Japan is not fun to play, if there is noone to fight against, because everyone is focusing on Germany & Italy. In fact, India itself is paying 1 Infantry a turn, therefore only minor investments are necessary to get a good gaming experience for every one.

Not to mention that it seems necessary for balancing.

@axis_roll:
I don’t really get, what you want to say. Do you think it’s a godd idea or not.

I think an indian industrial complex is not only for balancing, but for increasing fun for the Japanese and UK player. (In my optinion this is the most importaint part of playing a game.)

I see quite some suggesting the build of a battleship and i am a bit surprised. Maybe someone can explain the logic behind this. As far as I can see:

• A battleship costs 20 IPC attacks at 4 defends at 4 and takes 2 hits to be sunk and can bombard on amphibiou assaults. 2 Battleships are 40
• An aircraftcarrier is 16IPC, does not attack, defends at 2, takes 2 hits to be sunk and can carry 2 planes. An carrier with 2 fighter is 36 (cheaper), can take as many hits on offense and defens, is better on defense (4,4,2) a bit worse on offense (3,3,0). A carrier with a fighter and a tactical bomber is 37 (cheaper), better on defense (4,3,2) a little worse on offense (4,3,0). Lost fighters are easier to replace than a lost Battleship. Attacking coastal terretories allows the planes to fight additional rounds.

Battleships are to prefere when fighting submarines.

Overall I would prefere a Carrier with 2 fighters over 2 Battleships.

I think, build up a fleet in the pacific, but don’t completely neglect the atlantic. Probably drop an aircraftcarrier and a destroyer, to support the UK-Fleet (they can eventually put their fighters on it) as this are non offensive units and the UK lacks IPCs for non offensive units.

Against Japan: try to whittle down their ground forces. They lack a bit in reinforcements and have quite long supply lines, which are threatended by the US fleet.

The Bismarck is only good, if it sinks the Hood, otherwise its wasted.  :evil:

Maybe you can line out, what you expect your losses/gains are.
1. What are you going to send where to accomplish the task?
2. What are your expected casulties, how does the atlantic look like when UK starts its turn?
3. What are your builds and where?

I assume, you loose a fighter in Sz93 against the French Fleet. Further I assume, you will loose at least 1 or 2 subs in Sz 111.
I guess, you are attacking Sz 109, whre you need quite some airforce, to keep the Brits from scrambling 4 fighters (I guess 5 planes and 2 subs)

Probably you send 2 fighters to Italy and land most of your airforce in Holland and on the new build aircraft-carrier, while you still need some additional airprotection for your new build fleet.

Options for UK:
1. Attacking your fleet: 1 BsB, 1Crusier, 3 fighter and 1 Bomber against 1 Carrier 2 fighter 1 crusier and scrambling air cover (you need at least 2), while the french could mop up your fleet with Crusier and fighter or sink your Battelship in Sz111.

2. Not moving the Battleship to Sz111 leaves UK the option to pull back to Sz109, block 110 with a new build destroyer and 111 with the French Crusier. Italy can’t sink the Crusier because of 3 scrambling planes. Now only your airforce can hit 109 (with the remaining subs, if any). You can probably whittle down the UK fleet with heavy air casulties, but this would kill any sealion thread and remove your options to further fight for the atlantic at see, but would force you to defend the coasts of western europe.

3. Moving the Fleet to Sz92 with adding the fleet from 98 and sinking Sz96 with airforce. Leaving 1 Battleship. 1Carrier, 1 Crusier, 1 Destroyer and 2 Fighter versus the Italian sub, 2 desroyer, 2 crusier, 1 battleship and 2 fighters and a bomber: likely Outcome: Italy wins with 1 damaged Battleship and 1 Crusier left, which are subject to counter attacks by the French (crusier and fighter from 110 + London) and/or the remaining british airforce.

Title:  Out of Box (1941)

Date:  26.10.2012

Special Rules: with National Objectives and with Technology

Victor:  Axis victory. Germans crushed Russia with little casulties due to dice.

Game Length:  approximately 12 Hours and 12 Rounds

Bias:  equally skilled

Description: Allies tried a contain Japan and then crush Italy/Germany. Germany was playing very conservativeley, pulling back round 2 and 3 afterwards going for Moskau. UK tried to disturb Germany by taking Norway tunr 1 and landings in NW-Europe. In addition build an industrial complex in india turn 2 with russian aid (4 Inf 2 Ari and 6 tanks). USA build up fleet in Pacific and sent some lone transports towards africa to keep italy busy.
Japan built an industrial complex round 1 in Thailand (French-Inochina). Eventually lost the complex once to russian tanks and sacrificed lots of fighters to regain control and permit a recapture by russians/Brits.
Italy secured France and western europe but struggled to gain control of Africa, where germany helped out.
In the End the US build up a LARGE invasion force (7-10 loaded transports) ant set up an invasion of France/Italy but with Germany keepin all their Tanks and planes from the moskau fight (it was 55:45 fight in Germanys favor, and with major airforce losses and only keeping a few tanks, as was expected by the allies (me)) this game could have ended up with an Allied victoy.

Observations/Recommendations:  Even tough, Japan was hard pressed, it was almoust impossible to deny japan a major income or to destroy their large starting fleet. Russia had to commit some forces to do so, but they eventually were missed when the german offensive started. It semms almoust impossible to contain Japan without Germany and Italy getting too strong. On the other Hand, It seems not necessary to fight Japan, because they have no major objectives. (This is bad, becaus the Japanese player won’t have much fun)
Even tough this game was close, a more aggresive German would have crussed Russia much earlier, with no chance for the allies to win.

Suggestion: Adding an Industial complex in India in Setup.
1. More fighting forced in Asia/with Japan
2. by saving 15IPC for the UK the whole game could balance out

The main Problem is, the game isn’t fun for every player, if you can only win as allies by almoust complete neglection of Japan. The Japanese Player will have a poor gaming experience. On the other hand, you won’t win the war in the pacific.
I recently invested loads of Russian troops, a UK factory in India and the US heavy into the pacific (1941 scenario) and didn’t come close to a win in the pacific and lost to europe. Eventough the Japanese player made a major mistake and i got lucky when he attackt some groundforces with mainly planes. The best I could achieve was a stall with Japan earning somewhat 50 IPC a turn (playing with NO).
While Germany on the other hand was playing extremely conservative, but finally crushed the USSR (rolling really good dice), so the US Invasion froce stationed in the atlantic.

Whats missing in this game?
I guess a industrial complex in India to start with could slow the japanese advance, while still saveing IPC for UK (doesn’t have to build one). This would make the game more challanging for the Japanese Player (otherwise there is no opponent on the continent) and gives the UK player more action on the pacific side of the board, while still able to build up some fleet to fight the Germans/Italians.