Posts made by bugoo

Obviously if J2 can take it don’t do it.  Not sure where your getting 2 armors from on J2 that far south though.

And if the US is going hardcore pacific and japan would have to sac 2-3 fighters to take india, it may still be worth it to reinforce but not build the IC turn 1, but maybe turn 2 after further UK/US reinforcements arrive if japan doesn’t take it.

You start with 3 inf, 1 art there, J2 usually has 5 inf, 1 art, and 5 figs in range, usually.  In this case I would just hit the units in burma with your UK troops and forget about india, focusing on Australia.  But if there are only say 4 fighters, 2 inf, and 1 art in range, then it gets interesting when russia sends in 2 inf, and 2 arms, even without an IC there if there are 2 figs on Australia and 2 more inf in Persia.

Jenn:

No not at all.

Round 1 Russia sent 2 inf to persia, and ensured there were an armor to two in cauc and builds a fig, somewhere. UK builds complex, moves TJ inf to persia, fig to India if alive if it seems viable after J1.  If not, 3 bombers would be a good move as russia can liberate TJ for a LZ, or go standard build or whatever.

Round 2 Russia sends what it can to India to ensure it holds. (fig, inf in persia, armors, whatever).  Or pulls its 2 inf investment back out of persia.

Now we go into the realm of what would be craziness but awesome.

UK2 attacks burma and builds in India.

R3 blitzes into FIC.

Now you would not do this AT ALL assuming Japan does a standard opening and aims to hit india hard, or if germany purchased all tanks.  But, the only investment are things that Russia would do anyway so the cost is very low and the potential pay off if Japan goes the northern route, or germany builds defensive, or a bomber on turn 1, and you can pull it off are worth it in my mind.

The thing about allied strats in AA50 is the axis have the initiative.  You must react to what they do, hit them where they are weak, retreat where you are strong.  Go KJF if you can, go KGF if they are open to it.  But those 2 inf in persia, or 2 figs, or arm in caucaus, can give you an opportunity to hurt Japan and push her back hard.  Or kill the Italian navy, or both.

Everyone assumes that on J2 japan invades half the board, they cannot send all there forces everywhere at once.  They must leave themselves open somewhere, and that is where you push back.  In all the games i’ve played J2 is a messier turn than J1.

In closing I believe the India IC is something that should be done rarely, and only when the axis give the opening.

One thing i’ve been toying with for this strategy is moving the UK atlantic fleet into the pacific.  My usual UK1 buy is a battleship, carrier, and transport.  Then on UK2 moving to SZ 13 if safe and buying bombers, US sends its fig to algeria US2.  Then UK3 smash italian fleet.  On UK4 I could be in SZ 34 if the fleet survived (i will usually sacrifice planes to keep the boats).  Now granted 2 destroyers, 1 BB, and 1 AC isn’t that great of a fleet, and german air probably can (and would if in range) sink it, but it could be improved.  Also, this would allow for an Egypt IC, or Fic IC to be semi protected if the US is keeping the Jap fleet pinned, and keeps Africa in allied hands.  On UK3 I like to start dropping more boats into the Atlantic with the US helping.

The problem is though if they are not held in south asia and get factory production going down there, how do you push them back?  You must be gearing back up into Europe by turn 3, 4 at the latest to establish a foothold by the time Russia falls and getting at Japan before then is very, very difficult.

That is interesting in the concept that as a ‘building up force’ you can have the US build a tranny and offload units into the UK, then leave them there for the UK to use as well for a large ‘surge’.

One other thing to keep in mind as far as holding France is US fighters rock on that front.

The more I think about it I feel an IC should be built on turn 2 if your fleet is off in SZ 12 or 4 and should be built where you will get the most out of it.

1-2 inf usually seed china anyway and will not hurt your builds that much.  Building a fighter is not a bad idea, and leaving an armor or two in caucaus doesn’t hurt that much either.  Its not that you will try to liberate India with Russia, its the threat of reinforcing it on R2.  If you send just 1 inf, 2 arm, and 1 fig on top of the 3 inf 1 art already there Japan best ensure they are sending in alot of troops to take it for J2, it would take 5 inf, 1 art, 4 figs with 1 surviving unit from Japan.  Not that you should build the IC but if Japan doesn’t have her fighters in range, or didn’t send a transport to Burma or lost a few more planes than expected it may be a valid move.  And remember, on UK2 there will be 2 inf from trans-jodan showing up along with 2-3 fighters from the US that will be in range to land on turn 2.  Yes russia will miss those units dearly, for a turn.  The other neat thing is on UK2 if you take burma on R3 they can blitz to FIC, not that it would happen but it sure would be neat (and pretty much ensure Japan was out of south asia).

(edit: I did bad math)

I would rarely build it myself, but when russia has 1-2 inf, 2-4 arm, and/or 1-2 figs that can reinforce India on turn 2, Japan has to be aware of that and ensure they send a large force toward India on J1, kinda a forcing there hand so to speak.

I think the big key is to stretch Japan out and then push her back.  To do this all allies need to participate.

USSR needs to keep the Siberian troops out there.  I like leaving 3 inf on bury and 5 on stanov.  This way you can take man with 3 inf on turn 2 and still have 5-6 inf out there to play with.  Also, I like placing 1-2 inf on Persia, and/or having a few tanks in caucaus or a fighter roaming around.  This allows you to threaten taking out the Italian fleet, or reinforcing India for an IC.  I don’t see a need to feed china if they lost there fighter.

UK needs to block with there destroyer in SZ 48, place the tranny in 47.  Then decide to go or not for an India IC, and to retake burma or not.  Remember, Japan doesn’t have a lot of troops in the area.  I also like to send the bomber to persia, or to Rhodesia.  As far as purchase an IC in south africa, or Australia is good, as are bombers.

The US should send 2 figs to Australia, send the AC to SZ 46, and get the bombers down there possibly as well.  I like purchasing one bomber with the US and then destroyers and subs and at least one transport.

On turn 2 Japan has alot of things to contend with.  They need to retake man, they need to protect there transports, they want to hit the US fleet but may not, they want to take india but cannot hold it, etc.  Also, on UK2 if russia retakes trans-jordan and they have the planes they can knock out the italian fleet and possibly have more planes down in that area.  Remember, UK bombers can get to the south pacific in one turn and if someone retakes India the US can use it as a landing spot for any planes striking Japanese boats in that SZ.

Even if Russia falls the south pacific is worth just as much, esp if you take Africa.  The key I think is to spend 2 turns focusing on Japan, then quickly shift gears and do a HARD push on France/Africa to get a foothold before Russia falls.

I think an easier rule to use that would cause less confusion would be only one plane can target a sub per destroyer.  Has a strong effect on subs, without too many complications.

The big problem with Italy is you can’t do anything on your own.  But you are the Russian of the Axis.  Leave you alone and you can come back to bite them, and you can cost the Allies alot of time and money as they try to kill you.  And just like Russia, if your fellow Axis back you up, they can make you last alot longer.  Weather it is Japan’s navy protecting yours, or Germany pounding on egypt, without there help you are lost.

@atarihuana:

J2: attack sz46 with BB, CA, DD 5- 6 ftr

defender : 3 DD, AC, 2 ftr

Actually i’d only have 2 DDs there and typically your cruiser is sailing toward India and your destroyer got sunk and I doubt all those planes are in range, but lets assume that is correct and you do that minus the DD and cruiser.  You should average 8 units left, we’ll say BB, 3 CAs, and 4 figs.  US2 counter is 3 subs, 2 bombers.  You keep on average 1.32 boats.  You failed to take India or Australia. And that is an extreme example, I highly doubt all those boats and planes are within range J2, if they are you ignored the UK india fleet and left Japan SZ unprotected which would dictate a different move from me.  Although in retrospect perhaps I should leave the bombers in LA for a turn =).

Whoa, so the ‘overpowered’ bombers FAIL compared to the weak fighter against boats.  Interesting.

The weird thing about fighters though is 8 figs vs 10 DDs only win 38% of the time.  I really think on a dollar for dollar value destroyers trump planes, but not by much.

10 bombers vs 15 destroyers also comes out to them only winning 6% of the time.

I would have to disagree.  The problem with an SBR campain is the time it takes, and the lack of other uses of the bomber for the allies, mainly being protecting transports getting to the front line.  If anyone gains alot of power with the bomber, it would have to be Germany as they can SBR UK, or Russia, sink fleets, and take Russian dirt.  But I don’t think they are overpowered anymore than battleships are.

I thought of something interesting the other day and wonder how it would work out.

UK1 move DD+trans from australia with 1 inf/1art to SZ 46.

US1 move carrier, 2 fig, destroyer to SZ 46 along with 2 bombers.  Purchase atleast 3 subs, preferably 1 transport and possibly a fighter or DDs as well.

UK2 take phillipeans.  Leave fleet in said SZ.

US2 move carrier DD to phillipeans.  Possibly land 1 fig.  Move bombers to hawawi.  Spread out subs within range of both SZ 50 and 62.  Perhaps take Carolina with transport and DDs if you built them.  Be sure to purchase atleast 1 AC (load it up) and 1 bomber, hopefully more bombers and maybe more boats.

J3 is in a sticky situation.  They cannot retake and defend there fleet and there home SZ unless they built all navy on J2 or kept all navy nearby in which case you retake a different island.  They lose an NO and give the US an extra 7 IPC a turn.  And it even allows the US to help in the Atlantic a bit.  Thoughts?

DDs + AC or BB will always win against planes, always.

10 bombers at 120 IPC vs 2 BB (40) + 10 DDs (80) = attacker wins 11% of the time.
5 bombers at 60 IPC vs 1 loaded AC (34) + 3 DDs (24) = attacker wins 32% of the time.

The reason is while your losing your 4s i’m loosing my 2s.  Same reason why inf rock.

The key is to build a small core (BBs and ACs) keep enough fodder (DDs and subs) and use as many shore bombards as you can (cruisers) afford.

All boats have a use and are better than just planes in the water.

Now yes, your bombers can ignore my fleet, but my DDs are serving there purpose in letting me land troops.

On Turn 1 have the UK rally troops in persia from trans-jordan and India and purchase 3 cruisers and a trannie.  US 1 purchase an AC, trannie, and armor. (minimum).  UK2 hit algeria and trans-jordan with fleet, land fighters on US carrier.  US2 land in algeria and backup UK fleet, land fighters in algeria, bombers in UK if you desire.  UK3 crush Italy fleet, OR land in Italy if fleet is not in the way.  Push to egypt and lybia if possible.  US repeats.

This gives your fleet defense from german air, is large enough to take out Italian fleet, or you may get luck and grab Italy herself, or on UK3 buy more boats and hit france, or northwest europe and norway.  That small surge of US troops and boats gives you control of the atlantic and Africa.  All the US devoted was an AC and possibly some fighters.  You could also purchase 1 BB 2 destroyers on UK1, which I actually think I prefer but i’m not sure, I really like 3 bombards.

One thing I want to try is a 5 inf/3 armor build while leaving only 5 inf in karelia and caucaus, 2 inf + 4 armor in Moscow, then 7 inf + 1 art + AA in Belorussia and Eastern Ukraine.  Yes you leave your factories exposed but you also force the german tank stack to pull back or get destroyed.  Not sure if it would work but it would be nice to have a nice big stack on east poland R2 or atleast the ability to deadzone it.

One thing I’ve been wondering about, if given the opportunity, would you as allies rather capture Italy or France, assuming you would lose them next turn, or also if you could hold them.  I ask this because I see/hear people talk about first taking Italy when focusing on KGF.

As far as IPCs go, France and Italy are both worth 6.  France as an NO gives an extra 5 IPCs to the UK, and the US, and is also part of a German NO and an Italian NO.  Italy’s capture will also net you there IPCs, which if you can take Italy will probably be around 10ish.  If you take France as the UK Italy can liberate it, but the US can take it again, that nets you another 6, same with Italy however if Germany liberates and UK retakes.  The UK can get units into France directly and the US can easily bridge units there as well out of range of some of the German air force as well as the UK can directly reinforce the fleet.  Italy is difficult to bridge to.  If you can only take it for one round I would honestly probably take France as you can probably continue to trade it every round.  If you can hold it a round however, Italy’s factory would be pretty nice.  Another consideration is Italy always has an AA gun, and if you take Italy typically Germany can liberate from France anyway, whereas liberating France would be done directly with the units in Germany.  While in France you can threaten both Italy and Germany, in Italy you only threaten France directly.  Transports assaulting France are within range of Germany, where as when hitting Italy there within range of almost nothing.

In all honesty given the choice I think I would prefer to focus on taking France first unless Italy was wide open.  Thoughts?

One last thought, Jenn, no one is saying that you shouldn’t pay attention when an enemy has 5 researchers and the last tech on the list is heavy bombers that you shouldn’t prepare for it.  People are complaining when the US buys a single researcher on turn 2, gets heavy bombers, and on that turn destroys Japan’s fleet change the course of the game.  Or Germany gets paratroopers on turn 2 and takes moscow when they shouldn’t have been able to reach it.  Those are 1 in 36 odds, much more common than the situation you describe, its rare but you cannot possibly expect a player to always assume that the opponent might buy a researcher, and might get that roll.  That is where the beef is.  The other thing is the only two techs that are this extreme are heavy bombers, and to a lesser extent paratroopers.  Every other tech is less overwhelming or takes time to come into play by its very nature.