Posts made by bugoo

A much easier counter is to have 30+ russians there.  Now I do agree though that subs are the key to the US in the pacific and I do like your ideas.  To add to this though, there should usually be atleast 1 UK aircraft in the pacific (bomber preferably) if the US is going to use alot of subs, as they can can opener a DD block.  The other thing that is easy for japan to use in defense of the ocean is the fighter buildup.  With 3 ACs turn 1, they can afford to have up to 12 figs that can be used in airstrikes if the US gets too close, very scary.  And as far as defense, i feel subs are extremely powerful in a skilled Japan player’s hands, even more so than DDs as the US must move within range of Japan in some sort to initiate a showdown in the pacific.

I know I didn’t contribute much as I as well am debating a viable KJF.

Thing that is nice about bids though is they can be used as a handicap as well against players with an uneven skill level.  That is why i prefer them.

Bids, that is all that is needed.  As we develop as allied players the game gets more and more balanced.

I’m sorry i’d still love to see a polar express attempted on me, if you tried that Russia would liberate the entire way to FIC on her own.  I’ve played good axis players, i’m not saying i’m the best allied player out there, but I win more games than I loose on TripleA, esp as allies, as KGF works.  Japan’s turn 1 still says ‘ignore me i’m worthless for atleast 2 more rounds’ and i can’t change that.  Polar Express? heh, good luck getting US before Russia is in berlin.

I’m on TripleA every weekend, if you dont want that give me a 7 allied bid, set it to LL, put an INF in Egypt, and ART in Kar, no tech, take your G1 with tripleA and send it to me, i’ll play by email but i will not type all that crap.  And please, i’m not insulting your playing skill, don’t try to say everyone i’ve defeated with a KGF is a moronic axis player, and there are more than a few now.

Yeah the problem with LL is that on G1 you can take Kar, sink the UK BB, and take Egypt, all on G1 with a possible loss of 2 figs in Kar (depending on AA shot and bombard shot), having 0-2 armor left plus the bomb in Egypt (again depending on turn 1 rolls, G on a 3 if they hit they keep 2 armor usually), and usually walking away with a fig against the BB, but sometimes that goes terribly wrong.  Also, Japan has no worries sending the 1 DD+2 figs vs Pearl, nor in sinking the DDs+trans, and even killing the flying tigers with 1 inf, 2 figs if they don’t mind loosing a fig.  Typically Japan ends in LL with only loosing 1 fig, at most 3 but that is rare.

On the other hand, Russia can do a perfect strafe on R1, China can still get dicey if you attack with just inf, and the subs in the Atlantic are dicey a lot of times too.  Also, the allies can hit exposed G planes on turn 1 with perfect odds, and we know 2 figs, or 1 fig/1 bomb will sink that cruiser, as will the US DD+Bomb sink a G sub, so while LL helps out axis immensely, it also helps allies a tad as well.

Typical bid placement is 1 unit in Karelia, and 1 unit in Egypt.

Also, i have found that KGF works well, very very well.  Step 1 - deny Germany 3 nos, Step 2 - get russia her 2nd NO, Step 3, get france + deny germany all her NOs.  Usually you can get G down to 20ish income by turn 5 and with russia making almost 50 she can hold against Japan pretty well, esp when the US starts to make 50ish as well and drops a pacific fleet on turn 4 or 5  :evil:

I think letting them buy inf based off there land at the end of there turn would be enough, might even be enough to even up the game a bit more to lower/remove bids.

2 inf (to kar), 1 art, 4 arm.  This gives you alot of firepower for a R2 push into Ukraine depending on what G does, alot of times this even gets me my 3rd NO on turn 3.

Usually it will knock the UK fleet out of position though, and open it up to Ger air normally, but not always it depends on the situation.

There are two enemies for you to destroy, and two main schools of thought on how to do it.

Against Russia you can aim for one of two things, a G2 Kar in force, or the triple threat.  For the Kar in force you send many armor, usually 3-4, into Baltic along with all but 1 inf that can reach.  You take E Poland with 2 inf and 2-3 arm, and send 2 inf, 1 art, 1 fig at Ukraine.  Now this is risky but after moving all inf into Finland sets up for a huge attack on Karelia and Russia cannot block it.  The triple threat consists of sending 5-6 armor against east Poland with an inf or two and taking Baltic/Ukraine with the remainder, typically followed with an inf/art sent to Finland or Baltic depending.  Now both styles have there own advantages/disadvantages, going hard for Kar allows you to hit Kar with alot of inf for a nice stack.  The triple threat allows you to threaten a can opener with Italy to threaten Moscow, Kar, and Caucaus on G3 and gives you more flexibility, but you probably wont get Karelia on G2 and will loose alot of inf if Russia counters somewhere hard.

Your second enemy, the UK.  You have two theaters to fight them in, Africa and there navy.  Also, to safeguard the Italian fleet you need to either sink a boat in SZ 12, or take Egypt.  My preferred open against them is to move 1 inf, 1 arm, or even 2 inf from France into Libya, and move 1 arm from Libya to Algeria.  I do not attack Egypt, some attack egypt will everything that can reach and the bomber, some do not.  I then send 1 sub 1and 1 bomb against the UK destroyer/transport, and send 2 figs 1 sub against the SZ 12 fleet, as well as the cruiser and a fig against the DD, sometimes using the sub, sometimes not, this frees 1 fig for use against Russia as well.  At the end of my turn the bomber land in Algeria along with 1 fig, if the other fig survived it goes to France typically.  What usually happens on the UK’s turn is they flee Egypt, allowing italy to take Egypt with 2 inf, and land in Gibraltar.  Also, your bomber in Algeria forces the US to build boats to defend any trannies they build.

Now most people would tell you to send 1 sub, 1 fig, 1 bomber vs the battleship/transport, and 1 sub, 2 fig against the DD/cruiser in SZ 12, and 1 sub, 1 fig, and/or cruiser against the destroyer and hit egypt will transported units plus Libya units to weaken the UK for Italy to follow up.  The other school of thought would tell you to send 2 subs, 1 fig against the battleship/transport and send the bomber to Egypt, then either sending 2 figs against the fleet in SZ 12 or ignoring it.  It really is up to you though as all these options have there advantages / disadvantages.

add me to that list as well!

It works, except i like to setup for a push at ukraine instead of a counter-attack at Karelia, let the UK retake Kar, this will give you a huge unit advantage in the south as almost off of G’s units are destroyed in Kar on the UK counter-attack and you will have a stack of 10+ in ukraine waiting to take your 2nd NO.  This is also a fun time to take US/UK figs and land them in ukraine to backup your russians and if G put most of it’s tanks, as it usually will to kill 11 inf, in Kar you dont even have to worry about a can opener from italy and can place 4 more armor in Cauc for the turn 3 hit of Romania and even a fig in Moscow if you desire.  If they don’t take the bait simply move the Kar stack into Belorussia on turn 3 as you move into Ukraine while placing previously stated armor and let the UK drop its 4+ units into Kar.  Then G is really in a pickle.  :-D

I still disagree.  It is very possible when going KGF to get russia’s 2nd NO by turn 3 and have germany on the run.  Takes some skilled allied play, but is very doable, as is dead zoning persia with little effort, or actually holding it until the US can make it into the scrap.  This is with a 7 IPC bid in LL.  Then france falls around turn 4-5, giving the US almost the same income as Japan and Russia is cashing in around 40+.  Is it easy?  No, but still very possible.

Is KJF still not an optimal strategy, for now yes.  But there is a way and eventually we will find it.  India can be held against Japan, provided the US guns for Japan proper.  The islands can be liberated, etc.  One thing i still want to try is UK carriers at india with US figs on 'em.  With US carriers in LA those figs could potentially reach SZ 62 in 1 move from both india and LA.  Provided russia can hold against da germans for that long.

The big thing is so many people play russia as a defensive force, and that is not how to do it.  G shouldn’t get there 3rd NO till turn 2-3, make 'em pay in units for every inch of soil they take.  Russia is the german meat grinder, use it as such!  At least in a KGF strat that is =).

France is good for a suprise navel drop as well.  Norway, i don’t see how it can be held.  My typical UK1 build is 1 AC, 3 trannies, 1 inf 1 arm.  Your not gonna stop all 8 units i can drop plus my air on turn 2, plus the US’s trannie and huge air power.

Worst case I get a cruiser instead of the last trannie, that still gives me alot of firepower though.  That build would just scream KGF to me.

It may be far better for you to use battlemap, for one such as myself though TripleA has absolutely no drawbacks  :-)

It has become standard bid on TripleA using LL to give allies 7-9 bid, i believe even a 3 allied bid is standard for using dice.  I must say though the more games I play the more options I see for the allies, it is just very difficult for an allied player to adjust to the combination of axis moves.  AA50 has an ebb and flow so to speak in my opinion that income, positioning, TUV, etc all play a part in, esp with NOs that prevents you from doing the same old build/shuck so to speak with allies every game, as every game is different.  I’ve also noticed Russian play getting much tighter and better, usually getting there 2nd NO, previously thought impossible to get, as early as turn 3 or 4! (3 is my personal record).  I have also been seeing Russia denying Germany her third NO unless Japan gets it, I’ve seen Japan also denied her 3rd NO till turn 3-4 with good allied play.

Income does not tell the entire story, sure Germany gets some high income numbers, but, they can only produce 10 units unless they build an IC which can be threatened by the allies.  Those 10 units never seem to be enough when your building air to threaten allied fleets, trading 2-4 territories a round, and trying to stack up france and push Russia.  Japan gets some sickening income, but takes sooo terribly long to setup and after setup is vulnerable to a full US push against her in later turns.  The US income is fairly large as well, but she takes so terribly long to get into the fight.  The allies cannot hold in africa/south asia/china/etc, but they have some very potent harassing potential with there troops there.  It is a race against time for the allies to be sure, and Turn 2 is there turn, i’ve noticed alot of allied players try to get in there hits on turn 1 instead of seting up for something substantial on turn 2, I myself have been guilty of this.

In the end I feel the bid will be as low as 5 for allies, still do.

I think the most telling factor from my experience is with a 9 ish bid both Subotai and I have won as both axis and allies playing against each other in LL on TripleA using a large variety of tactics (i don’t think we have yet to repeat a turn 1 move for move).  Typically which ever one of us makes a mistake, looses.  And as our allied play gets better as the games go on, i feel our bid for allies will lower as well, being that playing allies is a very different beast in AA50 as simple TUV and income each round doesn’t tell the same story as it did in revised with the much larger playing board, IC limits, capital capture rules, and the NO rules.  Positioning is so much more important in AA50 that a 100ish TUV difference can easily be overcome.

With a bid that high crazy stuff happens, like Russian Armor in Stan and an art in Bury, or a UK DD in SZ 8, or a UK sub in SZ 35, or even a US sub in SZ 50.  These arent even the best i can come up with.

I’m sorry but if allies get an inf in egypt and an art in Kar the game is balanced.  The only thing that will change the KGF being so powerful will be a change in axis turn 1 moves.  Unless you mean the entire bid should only go to china, which still leaves brokenness as I have successfully played Japan while ignoring china for the most part in the past, even with the US gunning for me a tad.

If you want to show me your polar express I’ll be on TripleA most of Saturday/Sunday, i welcome it.  Just give me a 7 bid and LL =) (much lower than the proposed 19, and LL favors axis or so I hear).

The US’s main contribution in my KGF games is the SBRing, figs, the recovering of Africa, and threatening of Rome and a double drop in France.  This is achieved by turn 4 at the absolute latest, the pieces in play by turn 3.  There is no ‘shuck’ anymore, where do you shuck to?  Africa?  Why, the axis have 1 trannie down there typically its easy to overrun.  France?  Hell if i’m trading france i gots the cash to come after you in the pacific.  And yes, once turn 3-4 comes around Germany will fall to russia and the UK alone in later turns if played properly, as russia is usually strait up out-producing them and the UK even is after SBRs are taken into account.

Almost every game Japan comes after the US I will win, as those are units russia does not have to worry about allowing her to push even harder vs Germany, or even just pulling back for a turn to overrun Japanesse ICs in India, etc.

I think in the end the bid will be around 3-5 as allied players learn how to counter everything the axis throw at them.  The thing with AA50 in 41 is that even though you have a general plan, and builds that may not change, standard tactics change every game depending on the Axis battle plan.  Allied play after turn 1 must be very flexible in there attack moves.  Also, I feel Russia is very difficult to play properly and as we get better with Russia, the entire allied plan gets easier.  I think in the end Russia will take about 5 turns to fall without any allied support against Germany, and will last until at least turn 6 with minor allied help.  Also, i think as the crazy aggressive axis battle plans become countered we will see drastically different turn 1 moves from the axis, especially Japan.  For example, how at release everyone thought G1 Karelia and/or G1 Egypt was a must do attack and now, as the allies are learning to deal with this and turn it to there advantage, most players do not do these attacks.  I feel the same will happen to the Japan opening where they take Burma and threaten India hard, perhaps they will even begin to go after the 2nd US Pacific NO on turn 1!

No that looks about right for what I usually face from Japan in unit count on those turns, but it does not tell the entire story as you assume the allies are going KGF, this is what germany faces.

UK: min 4 loaded trannies threatening poland, france, and berlin,  Plus around 2-3 planes at least.

US: min 2-4 loaded trannies threatening france, rome, and africa, plus when i play i’m at atleast 6 bombers at this point.

USSR: around 10ish armor, 10ish inf, maybe a fig or two, probably many more inf/arms depending on trades with G.

Also, at this point russia should be making 40+ and germany after SBRs is typically below 30, and italy is around 10-15 at the most.  Now holding India against an J2 assault is really easy to do, but costly as in no more heavy KGF (I dont do these, tried 'em usually germany goes monster on me.)

USSR: Purchase 1 bomb in caucaus as well as placing armor there, 2-4 inf into persia optional.

UK: Purchase whatever you like, in this situation though I like buying 3 bombers (i’ll show why in a moment).  DD block invasion of Australia, or bait Japan to taking it.

US: Fly 2 fig, 1 bomb to Australia.

Now, Japan can take east indies, and loose its tranny, russia can reinforce India if it desires on turn 2, before japan, or not.  They can also take trans-jordan to allow the UK an LZ to sink Italy’s fleet.  UK can even attack burma if desired depending on the J1 move.  On UK2 they can land there bombers in a location to threaten a Japan fleet if desired as well, and 3 US planes are in range to reinforce as well.

Option 2, Bait 'em.

Typically japan sends a single carrier toward india, in this case if you can hold Australia land your 2 fig 1 bomb (US), pull back to persia reinforced by russia so it will hold.  If on J2 they take India with boats, retake it and sink that fleet with US planes.  You can also send your UK bomber there if needed.

Option 3, carriers FTW

Do as option 1 with russia, as UK purchase an IC in india and land 2 figs in French West Africa, US sends 2 figs to australia as previously mentioned and loads up her carrier in Hawawii SZ, DD block if your scared but i’d rather bait japan into attack my carrier.

On UK2 purchase 3 carriers, load 'em up with 6 figs.  No more Japan navy threat.  This can also be modified to 2 ACs and a DD or trannie using US only planes while the US buys 1-2 figs and bombers to threaten the Japan fleet.  Another neat thing is US figs on UK carriers are a strike range of 4 sea zones (something that may surprise some players, even more if you move your US carrier around properly allowing for some crazy stuff in the pacific!  I learned this lesson the hard way on TripleA  :-().  Now that I think about it I kinda want to try that.

There are also things you can do in a KGF to help slow down Japan.  Allied bombers can SBR japan’s ICs and threaten her boats/trannie chain.  Turn 3 is a great time to build US pacific forces in a KGF as your trannie chain is established as are your bombers, while Japan just got done building ICs and her navy hasn’t grown since T1.  Holding in Persia with the UK troops and russian INF helps, allied figs can also land here.  Keeping a few armor in Caucaus can help threaten a quick strike at india to slow down production.  The key is in the switch, when Russia stops pushing against germany so hard and turns her eye at Japan.  When the US knows berlin will fall in time and harasses Japan’s efforts, etc.  Also, if the US takes and holds France her income is about the same as Japans!

But in all honesty, when going KGF you should expect 20+ Japanesse near russia by turn 4-5.

I’m sorry  but the US has no chance in the pacific against any semi decent axis player, and the polar express is easily countered.

US can do many things but there is one thing it should, imho, do.  Buy 2 bombers a round.  This means at the end of US1 there are 4 US figs, and 4 US bombers.  These bombers will do many things, like pin the Italian Navy, burn German IPCs with SBRs, and protect against polar express, unless Japan is willing to buy boats to defend her fleet.  This also makes it easier to up the ante on germany in unit count to defend berlin, rome, or france.

Also, starting your shuck from WUS helps, but with heavy SBRs in berlin, russia can usually push back G without much help.  Also key to any KGF strat is to get russia’s 2nd NO, not easy but very doable around R3-5, when Japan gets in the game.  Then if Japan decides to polar express, awesome, russia has more money than germany and doesnt have to worry about japan.