Posts made by Botider

Yes, it’s my turn. I live in central Alabama… the past 3 days A&A hasn’t been high on the priority list.  :wink:

@BigBadBruce:

I deducted from Italian cash in hand. I think you forgot 3 convoy in z93 and 1 convoy in z72. Am I right?

Yep… that would be correct… $34 for Italy.

thanks all. much clearer now…

well, i can’t say krieghund’s answer to our question made the issue any clearer… if anything, i am more confused. but long and short, the mech inf stays in ethiopia. france is up…

thanks for posting the question… i saw where someone responded. i am not familiar with that person… i sent a pm to krieghund, who is one of the board moderators and game designers/testers, and asked him to look at the thread and comment. i added my own post, which goes deeper than simply our question, to the broader issue of whether armor (and mech inf) are ever supposed to be able to move 2 spaces in non-combat. it is a common-place move, but i can’t find it discussed anywhere in the rules or faqs. anyway, i went ahead with italy and left the mech inf in ethiopia. you can move him back to egypt if you want, doesn’t matter to me. you’re up with france…

@Minor:

Hi

1. Yes Mechanized Infantry have the ability to move 2 spaces. For instance it can move through a friendly territory then onto a hostile territory, but in order to blitz from one hostile territory to the next, it requires a tank
1a. Yes it doesn’t require a tank to move, unless it’s blitzing.
1b. Yes

2. Yes, because the territory has been captured and it’s under your control. since you’re not attacking the neutral territory, you’re just “acquiring” the territory it doesn’t fall under the same category as blitzing.

I appreciate Bruce posting this question as it came up in our game… and would appreciate even more on of the board moderators addressing this issue. It goes deeper than simply the mech infantry question. But in Minor Threat’s response to question 1a he makes a statement that I cannot find supported in ANY rule book, errata, or FAQ … that a mech infantry can move 2 spaces without being pair with a tank. I hope Bruce and Minor Threat are right, because this would certainly make the Mech Inf a more valuable unit. And from a practical standpoint, I don’t understand why a Mech Inf ever needs a tank to move 2 spaces… is it mechanized or not, and what does the tank have to do with it?

But, to a clarification and question that has bugged me for some time…

From 1940s rules…
_Tanks can “blitz” by moving through an unoccupied hostile territory as the first part of a two-space move that can end in a friendly or hostile territory. This complete move must occur during the Combat Move phase.[/i}

And…
{i}A mechanized infantry unit must normally stop when it enters an enemy controlled territory. However, when moving [b]along with a tank, it can enter an unoccupied enemy controlled territory as the first part of a two-space move that can end in a friendly or hostile territory. This complete move must occur during the Combat Move phase._

It is common practice in Revised, Anniversary and 1940s scenarios for tanks to move 2 spaces during both combat and non-combat phases. And it is a very common practice for attacking tanks to move through a friendly territory on the way to a battle. The most egregious example of this is the infamous “can opener” tactic that I have both used and been victimized by in AA50/1941 scenario, whereby Italy takes a front Russian territory and the Germans (before the Russians can close the gap) move through this occupied territory in a blitz with a column of tanks to sack Russia. Technically, this appears to be a violation of the rule as stated above, since the first territory encountered is not “hostile”. In addition, 2 space moves with armor (and in 1940s games including mech inf) during the non-combat phase are so common place that no one (that I know of) ever raises this issue. However, the rules do not address this issue (2 space non-combat moves) anywhere that I can find.

Is this a case of a rule simply being ignored or the interpretation being extended to generally include simply all moves by armored and mechanized units? I have played dozens of games on these boards, and have actively participated in the generous interpretation of this rule, but I just wondered why I haven’t seen anyone object. The rules seem pretty clear. But their application is anything but.

Seond part… in Bruce and I’s current game the issue of a mech inf moving 2 spaces was raised. There was no “accompanying tank” … I raised the issue, but Bruce disagreed (graciously, I might add … which I appreciated). IMHO the rules do not allow the mech inf to move 2 spaces without a tank present during combat, which is how the move was originally posted. The outcome of the combat was not affected, and so now our question is whether he can move the mech inf during non-combat the same two spaces. Again, IMHO the rules do not allow the mech inf to move 2 spaces during non-combat without a tank present (if it’s in the rules, I can’t find it). And if we’re being nitpicky about it, I have seen no rules, errata or FAQs that say a tank or mech inf can ever move 2 spaces during non-combat – but everybody does it, all the time.

Thanks for comments, replies, direction to FAQs, errata, etc.

morocco taken w/out loss
gibraltar taken w/out opposition… naval and air bases seized
kenya taken w/out opposition

noncombat
2 ftr, tbmb greece > southern italy
sub, 2 dd sz95 > sz92

deployment
none

collect
$18 (territories) + $5 (north africa morocco to alexandria) + $5 (greece / gibraltar / southern france) + $10 saved = $38

i still show the mech inf in ethiopia per your combat move that being resolved. you can put him wherever you want per the answer you get to your question. france is up …

Bo_v_Bruce_Gm1_01Hital.AAM

algeria taken w/ loss of inf

morocco
inf/minf @ 1, ca @ 3, bb @ 4
Rolls: 2@1 1@3 1@4; Total Hits: 22@1: (5, 4)1@3: (2)1@4: (1)
vs
inf @ 2
Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 01@2: (3)

tunis taken w/out loss

algeria
inf @ 1, arm/ca @ 3
Rolls: 1@1 2@3; Total Hits: 21@1: (1)2@3: (2, 6)
vs
inf @ 2
Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 11@2: (1)

alexandria taken w/out loss

tunis
inf/rtl @ 2
Rolls: 2@2; Total Hits: 12@2: (4, 2)
vs
inf @ 2
Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 01@2: (4)

greece taken w/ loss of inf

alexandria
inf/rtl @ 2
Rolls: 2@2; Total Hits: 12@2: (6, 2)
vs
inf @ 2
Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 01@2: (3)

3 greek infantry killed,… 1 italian infantry killed…

greece
inf @ 1, arm/2 ftr @ 3, tbmb @ 4
Rolls: 1@1 3@3 1@4; Total Hits: 31@1: (1)3@3: (6, 3, 6)1@4: (2)
vs
inf @ 2
Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 01@2: (6)

south france taken w/out loss … minor ic and naval base seized

greece
2 inf @ 1, arm/2 ftr @ 3, tbmb @ 4
Rolls: 2@1 3@3 1@4; Total Hits: 32@1: (6, 6)3@3: (4, 2, 2)1@4: (2)
vs
4 inf @ 2
Rolls: 4@2; Total Hits: 14@2: (3, 3, 3, 2)

french infantry killed…

south france
2 inf/2 rtl @ 2, arm @ 3
Rolls: 4@2 1@3; Total Hits: 24@2: (6, 2, 5, 3)1@3: (1)
vs
rtl @ 2
Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 01@2: (6)

south france
2 inf/2 rtl @ 2, arm @ 3
Rolls: 4@2 1@3; Total Hits: 14@2: (4, 5, 4, 1)1@3: (4)
vs
inf/rtl @ 2
Rolls: 2@2; Total Hits: 02@2: (3, 6)

proceeding… where the british mech inf is located doesn’t affect italian turn…

italy 1

purchase
none… save $10

combat
south france (inf, rtl)
2 inf, 2 rtl, arm northern italy

greece (4 inf)
2 inf, arm albania
ftr, tbmb northan italy
ftr southern italy

alexandria (inf)
inf, rtl tobruk

tunis (inf)
inf, rtl libya

algeria (inf)
inf, arm tobruk via trn sz97> sz96 > sz92
ca sz95 > sz92 for bombardment

morocco (inf)
inf, minf tobruk via trn sz97 > sz96 > sz92
ca, bb sz97> sz92 for bombardment

gibraltar ( )
2 inf southern italy via trn sz95 > sz92

kenya ( )
inf somaliland

no sweat… i can live with whatever. frankly, i don’t understand why a mech inf shouldn’t be able to move 2 spaces without a tank. i mean, is it mechanized or not? but the way i understand the rule is it must be paired with a tank. let me know what answer you get… forward me the reply. contemplating italy’s move anyway…

This is one of those rules that I honestly think has been miss-applied for a long time. A couple of clarifications…

A blitz - according to the rulebook, a blitz is when a tank moves 2 spaces during combat move phase. According to the rules, this can only be done as part of a combat move, and the first territory encountered must be hostile (enemy controlled). This is rarely observed… I see guys moving tanks 2 spaces all the time, thru a friendly territory to get a battle. But the rules say nothing about this being legal. There is a never a mention that I can find in Revised, Anniversary or the 1940s scenarios that suggests that a tank can move 2 spaces during non-combat.

Mech Inf - this is a new unit to the 1940s scenario … the rules state: “… when moving along with a tank, it (the mech inf) can enter an unoccupied enemy controlled territory as the first part of a two-space move that can end in a friendly or hostile territory.”

There is no mention of a mech inf moving 2 spaces by itself … the rules explicitly say it must be paired with a tank to be able to move 2 spaces. And, as with the tank, there is nothing in the rules that says a tank or a mech inf can move 2 spaces during non-combat – even though guys do it all the time.

Long and short… the mech inf in egypt can’t move to ethiopia in either combat or non-combat, since no tank is present to move with it. It does not matter to the combat, because you won that battle even without the mech inf. I just need to know where you want that unit to be placed.

If you disagree with this, feel free to post a question to one of the moderators for clarification. They’re pretty good about getting an answer to us quickly, and I will certainly abide by whatever they say. The whole 2-space movement, to me, has been misinterpreted from the start, but no one has ever really said much about it.

I will wait for an answer… no hurry.

1 nit … the mech inf from egypt can’t “blitz” to ethiopia by itself. mech inf moves 2 spaces when paired (and moved) with a tank.

the ethiopia results still stand, 'cuz you didn’t hit any 1’s in the battle anyway. but the mech inf needs to be relocated – he can’t get to ethiopia without a tank’s assistance if my reading of the rules is correct. let me know if i missed something…

italy coming later today…

Okay Triple-B,… where you be? Life overwhelming right now? I await… patiently.  :wink: