Posts made by BJCard

You need to look at the money you are spending as well;

For example, you have 12 bombers at a cost of 144 IPCs;  The Allies have 18 DDs at a cost of 144 IPCs;  The bombers only have a 33% chance of winning!

If it was a mixed fleet-

2 CV
4 Ftr
2 Cruisers
6 DDs
(144 IPCs)

Its even worse for the bombers- only a 23% chance of winning.

We can go bigger if you want - in your example of 32 Bombers - 384 IPCs

32 Bombers vs. 48 DDs - Bombers have a 27% chance of winning.

But- no one buys that many DDs;  Lets try a mixed navy:

6 CVs
12 Ftrs
6 Cruisers
12 DDs
(384 IPCs)

The bombers lose pretty bad here too - 14% chance of winning.

These are all done by the Triplea calculator.  So, an equal amount of IPCs spent on Navy and bombers end badly for the bombers.  I do agree the bombers give great flexibility, but I think the Allies can create a Navy to withstand it if they spend IPC for IPC.  The Allies also need to be fairly aggressive (as much as they can be) because when Germany has that kind of air power, they have no land power.

The Allies could afford to drop a few of those DDs for Transports to get troops to Europe/Africa.  Germany would be suicidal to throw away all those bombers to attempt to kill the Allied Navy.

That’s $4.99!  No ‘lite’ or ‘trial’ version, how do I know its good?

Well, I see how mass bombers can be useful but I have a few comments to respond-

1.  The Allies can mass a Navy off Gibraltar, if they have an airbase in Gibraltar and own Morocco;  The Germans would have to attack with just bombers;  Fine by me, I’ll trade destroyers for bombers.   How would fighters/tac bombers reach?  Did Germany buy a carrier or attack Spain?

2.  If those bombers are in Italy to counter the Gibraltar navy, than they are not strategic bombing Moscow that turn.

3.  AA guns take hits and can target air units.  By no means would I buy a lot of them, but a few may help more than hurt.

4.  Is 47 German units in Bryansk a conservative estimate?  Is Russia countering when possible, falling back when not?

5.  If Italy is supplying that much to Russia - which I did not take into account with your initial post- than they have lost Africa and a UK Mid East Strategy is even more viable.  That is, minor ICs in Egypt and Iraq (or Persia).

6.  I’d have to look at the map again, but I don’t think bombers in range of strategic bombing Moscow are in range of hitting any Western Navy (outside the baltic and western med), therefore the Allies would have a turn to get out of range.

7.  The point of retreating to Moscow is to keep Russia in the game as long as possible.  If you lose the bulk of the Russian Army too early the UK/US does not have the time to get help there.

8.  What is Japan doing?  Full on Russia?  When does the US get attacked?

9.  Please don’t take my posts as any sort of personal attack, I really want to know more about what you are doing.  When you can play by forum against an experienced allied player it would be very helpful.

Well, Germany can only buy 2 bombers turn 1, then the USSR buys 11 Inf, 1 Art. What turn does Germany attack Russia?  When does Germany start strategic bombing Russia?  I suppose that will affect the number of Russian Infantry available in Moscow, and how many bombers are shot down.

At the earliest, Germany can hit Leningrad for 6 damage on turn 2- Russia doesn’t need that IC anyway, so no harm done.  Perhaps turn 3 you can hit strategic bomb Moscow.  By then Russia will have an additional 20+ Infantry built there, in addition to its starting Army- you can have a rather large stack in Moscow.

Very easily Russia will have 60+ Infantry in Moscow by turn 5.  They may be able to get Finland, Iraq, Ethiopia to get the NO as well.

By turn 5, per James’ buy plan with no lost bombers (statistically improbable) Germany will have 16 bombers and not a lot of troops on the front.  Will it be enough to take Moscow?  Hard to say- especially if Russia counter attacks the smaller German army when it can to whittle it down.

What does the UK do?  If they do a Mid-East strategy then they can get help to Russia.  In doing so they can make Cairo very hard for the Axis to take.  Or, if all those German air are in the East it may be possible for the UK to build up an invasion fleet intended for Norway, France, or Africa (Based at Gibraltar).

What does the USA do?  Are they also doing a bomber strategy or are they helping the UK off Gibraltar?  Are they going mostly Pacific?  If you make Japan expendable then you are limiting the ways the Axis can win.

What if Russia buys an AA gun/turn?  That will be more Bombers shot down.

If Japan goes for Siberia, than Russia has some extra units in Mongolia and a bit less Japanese pressure on India.

In the end, I feel that its too many bombers- you need boots on the ground to take territory.  I will have to see your strategy played out, it certainly has merit and is worth looking into.

sounds good, gonna have to try this out in two weeks.

Thanks Kim.

What do you do when Russia builds mostly infantry?  It seems like you would need more land units as Germany to keep Moscow in play.

I can see where that many bombers will prevent allied landings in Europe for a long time, but then you’ll have the UK go with a Mid-East strategy and the US go mostly Pacific (or bomber strat as well).

Kim, you say tournament rules; I thought those were the economic win conditions?

Doesn’t the OOB Russian Revolution rules (clarified by Kreig) help the CPs by making it easier to secure the East front?  Why would you make it harder for by forcing the CPs into taking Moscow?

So you advocate the 2 land movement?  What about sea?

So, the forum has been down the last two nights; got the ‘404’ error.  djensen, any word on whats going on?

Ok, so seriously back on topic- I want to play 1914 in a couple weeks with my brother, who has not played it yet.  Does this 2-space move rule really help that much?

@Flashman:

There shouldn’t be anything remotely like an “Italy strategy”.

If the Allies all act in their own individual interests they will lose. If they act according to a coordinated strategy they should win.

Even then, the Allies may still win when they act in their own individual interests.

@rjpeters70:

Library of Alexandria.

I second this.  This held a lot of the world’s knowledge at the time and the loss was catastrophic.

@CWO:

This could make for an interesting poll: if you could go back in time and save one thing that was destroyed in war, what would it be?

The Great Library of Alexandria.  Poll closed.  Nothing else is close.  (At least in my opinion, and if what they say about it is at least half true).

@CWO:

@Uncrustable:

they should make and release another collectors edition game (like anniversary) that is absolute top quality in every way, with more than enough pieces

As I recall, a few years ago Larry was tossing around ideas for a deluxe A&A game.  The game which came out of this process was Anniversary.  It was a big game, and it included new countries and new sculpts, and it was a collector’s edition…but I’m not sure I’d call it deluxe.

At the time it was ‘deluxe’ compared to what we had.  Plenty of new concepts that changed A&A games forever.  National Objectives, Transports hit last, Italy and China as separate nations, etc.

That reminds me of when I toured the Acropolis in Athens.  The Parthenon was used as a military garrison site by the Ottomans and was fairly well destroyed during a battle with the Venetians in 1687.  There is a lot of reconstruction going on there, but it was sad to see that the Parthenon was there for almost 2000 years before it was partly destroyed by war.

Truly a sad day for Roman history lovers.

@Gargantua:

@Kreuzfeld:

I think this discussion boils down to whether or not we consider these areas warzones or occupation zones.

oh, and by the way, the american police force actually have been very effective in somping terrorism by arrests, rather than killing.

I am thinking about white supremacy terrorism against blacks in the south after the civil war, until perhaps the 70s. The people committing the crimes probably had less respect for their victims than modern islamic terrorists have. It worked then, it does probably work now.

(Sarcasm)

Whoah whoah whoah Kruezfeld.

Those are called freedom fighters. ;)

(/sarcasm)

lol…

Guys, he’s not going to talk about that map specifically.

Perhaps a better question is:

How often are map changes made during playtesting and how does that happen?

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Napoleonic Empires, version: 4.0.9

Game History

Round: 1

Combat Move - France
            1 Marines and 1 Ney moved from SZ86 to Egypt
            1 Brigantine and 1 Marines moved from SZ81 to SZ86
            1 Marines moved from SZ86 to Egypt
            2 Fusilierss, 2 Grenadierss and 2 Horse_Artillerys moved from Valais to Helvetica
            1 Fusiliers moved from Burgundy to Helvetica
            1 Artillery, 1 Dragoons and 3 Fusilierss moved from Picardy to Flanders
            1 Dragoons moved from Champagne to Helvetica
            1 Horse_Artillery moved from Champagne to Flanders
            2 Dragoonss and 1 Hussars moved from Normandy to Flanders
            1 Horse_Artillery moved from Orleanais to Flanders
            3 Fusilierss moved from Champagne to Helvetica
            1 Barque, 1 Battleship, 1 Brigantine and 1 Cutter moved from SZ35 to SZ29

Purchase Units - France
            France buy 2 Artillerys, 1 Dragoons, 4 Fusilierss, 2 Horse_Artillerys and 1 Hussars; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat - France
            Battle in Egypt
                France attack with 2 Mariness and 1 Ney
                Neutral defend with 2 Chasseurss
                France win, taking Egypt from Neutral with 1 Marines and 1 Ney remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for France: 1 Marines
                Casualties for Neutral: 2 Chasseurss
            Battle in SZ29
                France attack with 1 Barque, 1 Battleship, 1 Brigantine and 1 Cutter
                UnitedKingdom defend with 1 Barque, 2 Brigantines, 1 Cutter and 1 Frigate
                Units damaged: 1 Battleship owned by the France
                France win with 1 Battleship remaining. Battle score for attacker is 20
                Casualties for France: 1 Barque, 1 Brigantine and 1 Cutter
                Casualties for UnitedKingdom: 1 Barque, 2 Brigantines, 1 Cutter and 1 Frigate
            Battle in Helvetica
                France attack with 1 Dragoons, 6 Fusilierss, 2 Grenadierss and 2 Horse_Artillerys
                Neutral defend with 3 Fusilierss
                France win, taking Helvetica from Neutral with 1 Dragoons, 5 Fusilierss, 2 Grenadierss and 2 Horse_Artillerys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
                Casualties for France: 1 Fusiliers
                Casualties for Neutral: 3 Fusilierss
            Battle in Flanders
                France attack with 1 Artillery, 3 Dragoonss, 3 Fusilierss, 2 Horse_Artillerys and 1 Hussars
                AustrianEmpire defend with 1 Artillery, 1 Cuirassiers and 2 Dragoonss
                France win, taking Flanders from AustrianEmpire with 1 Artillery, 3 Dragoonss, 3 Fusilierss and 2 Horse_Artillerys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 20
                Casualties for France: 1 Hussars
                Casualties for AustrianEmpire: 1 Artillery, 1 Cuirassiers and 2 Dragoonss

Non Combat Move - France
            1 General moved from Orleanais to Champagne
            1 Howitzer moved from Orleanais to Champagne
            2 Dragoonss moved from Anjou to Champagne
            1 Artillery and 2 Fusilierss moved from Auvergne to Champagne
            1 Horse_Artillery and 1 Hussars moved from Gascony to Champagne
            2 Hussarss moved from Poitou to Champagne
            1 Artillery and 1 Fusiliers moved from Languedoc to Burgundy
            1 Marines moved from Languedoc to Burgundy
            1 Barque, 1 Brigantine and 1 Grenadiers moved from SZ64 to SZ57
            1 Grenadiers moved from SZ57 to Catalonia
            1 Cutter moved from SZ63 to SZ57
            2 Fusilierss moved from Anjou to Auvergne
            2 Mariness moved from Brittany to Poitou
            1 Chasseurs moved from Brittany to Normandy

Place Units - France
            1 Artillery and 1 Fusiliers placed in Champagne
            1 Artillery, 1 Dragoons, 3 Fusilierss, 2 Horse_Artillerys and 1 Hussars placed in Orleanais

Turn Complete - France
            France collect 58 PUs; end with 58 PUs total
            Objective Balancing Income for balanced game: France met a national objective for an additional -6 PUs; end with 52 PUs

Test summary from TripleA, engine version: 1.7.0.3, time: 19:24:29

Rematch!