Posts made by BJCard

Fair enough

@Imperious:

Kind of dumb to have UK not be able to declare war on Italy on its turn… Hell, it can declare war on Japan on any turn and Japan is half a world away!

UK can’t declare war on Japan. Again the axis player does this. Of course eventually its at war if Japan does nothing for 3 turns.

By the way IL, UK has 3 Fighters on UK, 12 Inf, (1 Original, 1 French, 1 from Canada, 9 bought), 1 Arm (from Canada) So that is 2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/3/4/4/4 = 39, so yes, the loss of one German fighter makes it a pretty even battle.

OK UK starts with 2 infantry and 3 fighters, then UK brings the Inf from Canada and buys 9 more. But remember the Germans sub in SZ 109 most likely will remain and that destroyer and fighters will have to fight it. The sub can hit back too.

But lets assume the best. UK has according to you attacked the Italian fleet and did not block SZ 110. I have always maintained that by buying 9 INF and Bringing the fleet block that sealion is averted 100%.

UK has: 2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/4/3 and one AA gun vs  SB 4,3, and 4,4,4,4,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,1,1,1

or 14 hits and 31 points against 14 hits and a total of 47, doing Low Luck UK kills 5 units, and Germany kills 7-8 units, leaving UK with 6-7 units and 17-19 points against Germany’s 9 units and a total of 27

On the next round Germany kills another 4+ units and UK kills 3. The balance is now UK either has just 1 infantry and 2 planes or just 2 planes. Germany is at 6 units ( tank, bomber, 4 fighters)

The rest is clear to anybody, UK falls. Italy brings the fighter to London and game over. Nobody can do anything to save it.

This is the result if UK does not block at SZ 110. AS i have maintained and proven many times over, If Germany buys 1 CV and 2 AP and commits to Sealion, and UK does not bring the carrier block with fighters and destroyer and does not buy 9 land units, UK will fall unless dice really go bad. This is a forced move sequence for a number of players and should not be modeled in the game. Italy should be neutral till its own turn.

56% of the time the attacker will win.  Basically you are doing a game deciding gamble on turn two.

I will take a 12% margin of victory offered on the second turn any day. The real problem is we should not have to be in this position if UK was restricted into attacking Italy and Italy was neutral till their own turn. Then and only then Germany could consider another buy because it does not need to foil the threat of losing the Italian navy.

Germany knows that if UK blocks with CV , DD and 2 fighters and buys 9 INF, that sealion is not possible, but it also knows that not buying a CV and 2 AP will cause UK to most likely destroy the Italian fleet on the west coast.

Now players don’t have this “thing” to deal with every-game. It is solved by the restriction on UK.

UK has 3 fighters in London, you only have one 4.  If those fighters are defending the sea on the CV, then the BB/CA bombardment cannot happen.

Secondly, the UK can attack Japan on ANY turn.  If the UK attacks Japan, the US is not brought into the war yet.

UK should be able to attack anyone she sees as a threat.  Hell, they can attack Japan on ANY turn.

@chompers:

I believe he’s assuming GB sinks the Italian fleet turn 1.

So am I.  If you bring the fleet back then you can have a a Tac Bomber on UK too for a total of 42 on D.

Kind of dumb to have UK not be able to declare war on Italy on its turn… Hell, it can declare war on Japan on any turn and Japan is half a world away!

By the way IL, UK has 3 Fighters on UK, 12 Inf, (1 Original, 1 French, 1 from Canada, 9 bought), 1 Arm (from Canada) So that is 2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2/3/4/4/4 = 39, so yes, the loss of one German fighter makes it a pretty even battle.

Yes, but is it worse for Italy to rule the med with 2 Transports from turn 1?  I think you lose Cairo pretty fast- and thus lose Africa- killing UK’s income (and hence fleet making abilities).

Not sure Germany should lose so much air taking out a french DD, french CA, UK CV, UK Ftr, UK tac in the med…  probably lose 3-4 german air

The british should do the Italian raid every game, and NCM the carrier to the french fleet.  Most of the time the UK will with with 1 tac, 1 ftr to land on the carrier.  If the germans want to attack 1 DD, 1 CA, 1 CV, 1 Tac, 1 Ftr with air, than so be it- they will lose 2-3 aircraft in the first round, with another 1-2 in the second round (depending on how many hits the germans get).  If the German airforce is depleted that much, then subsequent UK builds are much safer.

Of course if the Germans build 1 CV, 2 Transports round 1, then the Tac will be needed in the defense of Great Britain…

@Imperious:

Um… am I reading this wrong, or are you leaving the UK wide open for sealion on turn 2?

No these turns are not scripted depending on the player turn before it. These are just optional based on what each player should do. Of course it goes without saying that UK sends the fleet to protect UK if Germany makes those builds, but if they do not then thats what i advise UK do if they don’t face sea-lion.

it is in Germanys best interest to force UK into reflexive moves whenever possible, and CV and 2 AP does this.

Germany has 3 Transports now (AP is a transport right?) in range of the UK, and you bought no land units for the UK, nor did you block the German fleet in any way-  You also moved 2 fighters off of UK and put them on the carrier in SZ 118. So what does the UK have? 1 UK Inf, 1 French Inf, 1 Fighter, 1 Tac?  Did I miss something?  Wouldn’t it be better to buy some Infantry to defend the UK?

Again you are looking at these turns as a connected sequence. This is a mistake. This is optional play based on normal play. Players may not do everything stated, but the moves are the best to produce the best results and not related to the other posted turns.

If Germany goes Sealion, the best way to block is with infantry, my posted move again is only if they don’t because the most FAVORABLE RESULT FOR UK IS IF GERMANY DOES NOT TRY IT.

In fact none of the turn moves are compatible with the player who played before. Again these are optional moves for each nation with all things being equal.

How can you invade Egypt and Jordan each with 2 Inf, 2 Arm? You only have 2 Transports and 3 Bombards (IF you didn’t lose half your fleet).

Italy lands one tank and one inf each with its transports the Cruisers also split ( or not) depending on where British place units. Again these are optional moves. Italy fleet is saved if Germany buys CV and 2 AP. This brings the UK fleet to protect.

Of course of Italy gets smacked you can throw this idea out the window. Again these are optimal ideas for nations. Think in terms of UK leaving Italy entirely alone.

If you meant to invade each with 1 Inf, 1 Arm, why do that? You will probably lose that battle and each Ship can only bombard once, not multiple territories. You can have up to 4 Inf, 2 Art, 1 Arm, 1 Ftr, 1 Tac in Egypt to defend.

Yes but UK wont do that. They need to disburse in order to smash the 3 backdoor pieces south.

Also, to place the entire UK forces in one spot is disaster, as Italy can destroy that. UK cant pull all her forces to Jordan either. If they do this then Italy takes easily Alexandria, Egypt and the 3 infantry in Abyssinia make problems. It is too passive for UK to play with her entire army in one spot. She has to make her kills and weaken the Italians before they combine to crush her. Thats why UK can and should take out the 2 infantry south and not wait for getting killed.

Gotcha, thought these were in sequence, but now it makes sense.

Um… am I reading this wrong, or are you leaving the UK wide open for sealion on turn 2?  Germany has 3 Transports now (AP is a transport right?) in range of the UK, and you bought no land units for the UK, nor did you block the German fleet in any way-  You also moved 2 fighters off of UK and put them on the carrier in SZ 118. So what does the UK have? 1 UK Inf, 1 French Inf, 1 Fighter, 1 Tac?  Did I miss something?  Wouldn’t it be better to buy some Infantry to defend the UK?

How can you invade Egypt and Jordan each with 2 Inf, 2 Arm? You only have 2 Transports and 3 Bombards (IF you didn’t lose half your fleet).  If you meant to invade each with 1 Inf, 1 Arm, why do that? You will probably lose that battle and each Ship can only bombard once, not multiple territories. You can have up to 4 Inf, 2 Art, 1 Arm, 1 Ftr, 1 Tac in Egypt to defend.

Well, the UK can attack (declare war) on Japan on any turn, why not Italy?

I dont see how you get 69 ipcs…  I only count 41 for german territories-  30 original + 4 Paris + 2 Normandy + 2 Finland + 2 Yugoslavia + 1 Bulgaria = 41 IPCs

are we arguing the same thing here?  I understand there is a difference in the convoy boxes (with fixed values) and convoy routes (associated with a territory value), they are not tied together.  Those convoy zones can be interdicted by either side if their respective enemy holds the territory.

I guess the difference with AAG40 is that you have to have a DD (1 IPC) or a SS (2 IPC) up to the territory value (In the convoy route)- not just a warship for the whole value (as in AAP).  At least in AAP40 there are no convoy boxes with fixed values, only convoy routes.

I’m not sure what your idea was now.  I thought you said convoy ‘zones’ were your idea- I just said they were in AAP.

No, I wasn’t talking about the British Convoys I was talking about the territory convoys (they have no IPC value next to them- only the IPC value of the associated territory)- if I moved an Allied warship next to a Japanese controlled Java, Japan does not get the IPCs from Java. The Allied warship interdicted the ‘convoy’ from the Java to Japan.  Therefore Japan does not get the 4 IPCs from Java.

And yes, I have played AAP a lot actually.  It is my favorite A&A game and most realistic in my opinion.  Have you played it?

I started teaching with AA42, then move on to AA50… now AA50 is the base game to teach-  AA42 is too small and simple.

AA40 will be the advanced game :-)

IL, the convoy rule is similar to the old AAP convoys…  they would only deny the total IPCs of the territory.  So, not exactly your rule.

@Imperious:

So using your data IL, with a ratio of:

Fighter: 1:150
Tac (best I can tell): 1:150
Bomber: 1:600

Germany: 7 Fighter, 4 Tac, 2 Bomber
Japan: 9 Fighter, 2 Tac, 1 Bomber
UK: 5 Fighter, 1 Tac, 1 Bomber
Italy: 4 Fighter, 1 Tac, 1 Bomber

Russia/US have huge air forces, hard to tell how many units they should have based on quality/experience, but my guess is:
US: 8 Fighter, 3 Tac, 2 Bomber
Russia: 4 Fighter, 2 Tac, 1 Bomber

OK this is great… BUT you need to qualify some of the planes and ‘discount’ the numbers ( by type) of really inferior types like old WW1 biplanes that inflate the total and really saw no action or could not be classified at front line planes.

I did this with some of the old battleships, rating Germany down a BB because of either pocket battleships ( which are really more like a cruiser) and old WW1 BB’s

ON the Carriers some of the old small carriers were counted at 50% rate into my figures ( example: Hermes and Hosho)

I think your numbers in view of this may be off by 1 plane here and there. PLease check.

Today i will work on Land and lets compare notes.

Once we know what each had in terms of total pieces we can begin to study the placement and plug in the numbers to build us a historical setup.

ok, so maybe the following changes:
Germany: 7 Fighter, 4 Tac, 1 Bomber  - Lets be serious- Germany shouldn’t have 2 bombers at start if we want some UK fleet to survive Round 1
Japan: 9 Fighter, 2 Tac, 1 Bomber
UK: 4 Fighter, 1 Tac, 1 Bomber  
India: 2 Fighter, 1 Tac
Italy: 2 Fighter, 1 Tac  - Reduce the Italian air arm significantly.  They weren’t well renowned anyway.
France: 1 Fighter
ANZAC: 2 Fighter
US: 6 Fighter, 3 Tac, 2 Bomber - Reduction based on war experience
Russia: 2 Fighter, 1 Tac, 1 Bomber - Reduction based on quality/leadership

Do those look better?

So using your data IL, with a ratio of:

Fighter: 1:150
Tac (best I can tell): 1:150
Bomber: 1:600

Germany: 7 Fighter, 4 Tac, 2 Bomber
Japan: 9 Fighter, 2 Tac, 1 Bomber
UK: 5 Fighter, 1 Tac, 1 Bomber
Italy: 4 Fighter, 1 Tac, 1 Bomber

Russia/US have huge air forces, hard to tell how many units they should have based on quality/experience, but my guess is:
US: 8 Fighter, 3 Tac, 2 Bomber
Russia: 4 Fighter, 2 Tac, 1 Bomber

um… the tech with 2 columns looks like aa50’s two column tech…

How do people play the new games and then go back and play Classic?  No Artillery, Destroyers, or Cruisers?  Submarines don’t ever submerge?  Single hit Battleships?  Carrier’s build with no planes on them?

Nope, don’t think I will ever play classic again.