Posts made by billcallaway

I shouldn’t say the Axis lost in the first two turns - but now that we have played enough games if the Axis (more or less) can’t get certain things done in the first 2 turns the game is basically over from what we can tell. You can’t tell the game is done until turn 7, 8 or 9 and then it becomes clear (more or less).

At this time with our Allied strategies (see other posts) - both Germany and Italy can’t get far enough ahead in the first 2 turns to deal with Russia in turn 4 or 5.

There is almost no way Germany can protect all their IC’s from strategic bombing. Now that AA guns don’t hit escorts in strategic bombing it makes bombing (nearly?) too good for the Allies.

@ koba - the rules basically get the US into the war quicker if anything happens in S.A. with the Axis. + 30 IPC for US if any axis unit in S.A. (before they in the war). So that means for the Axis - don’t go into S.A. until US in the war (basically).

Let me know how your weekend game goes. I’m surprised the Axis won but I’m glad to hear it for game balance reasons.

I wasn’t 100% about the Dutch navy because on page 29 of the rules it states “if a pro or strict neutral’s capital is captured - on a roll of a 1 - 2 it becomes part of the attackers navy”.

There is really no other way to interpret this.

It sounds like something needs to be rewritten in the rules. However, this now makes the Allies stronger in our games where the Axis are already losing.

I’m not sure how the Axis can win now if the Allies do a 1) fortress on victory cities with maximum infantry and 2) maximum US lend lease every turn strategy and 3) maximum Russia into Finland strategy.

The problem is that you have to play until the 8th turn nearly every game to see that the Axis can’t win (as a rule).

I would say that the UK got too strong with the extra units, or Germany/Italy got too weak by losing the ships they had in 6.1.

Taking 25 IPC’s worth of ships away from both Italy and Germany in turn 1, and giving UK and extra 30 - 40 IPC of units, and Russia an extra 70 IPC worth of units (including IC/AA) was just too much. IMO.

That doesn’t even take into consideration the special units being cheaper is better for the Allies than the Axis.

Others disagree though and I suspect we have rule misinterpretations issues or they don’t do a maximum lend lease/fortress and Russia into Finland strategy.

I might need to ask you to clear up some rules that are a bit unclear. Maybe we playing wrong but I don’t think we are.

We just played a fun game but it was over before it even began basically.

Germany sent everything they could after UK navy 1st turn. They killed 3 UK ships total and damaged 3 capital ships. Germany lost over 1/2 their navy and 1/3 of their planes. Bad rolls can screw Germany.

I’ve never seen this happen and it will never happen again but Germany inherited the entire Dutch navy, otherwise the Axis would have quit.

Italy lost their entire navy on turn 2 but that was their fault for landing in Africa too early and the UK dumped everything into Egypt that could get there the 1st turn.

Japan was let go as usual. They can become a borderline juggernaut with 110 IPC a turn but it’s not enough to get Sydney and Calcutta. The UK builds in the Commonwealths and it bails the Pacific out of trouble. Even South Africa can bail out India. As soon as the Allies see that Japan is too big it’s easy for the Allies to put Europe to the side and dump everything into the Pacific.

Germany is fun against Russia for the first 2 turns but then they get stopped. Nearly every time.

The strategy is the same for every game it seems (more or less). 80% against Germany for the first 6 or 7 turns. Russia dumps everything in the north for the first 4 turns against Finland. Finland fights for it’s life and sometimes falls (unless Germany builds transports). US does maximum lend lease to Allies every turn to whoever is in the war. Allies build fortifications on cities.

The wild card is US getting lend lease captured and when is the US and Russia going to get into the war. I think its the most exciting part of the game. If the rolls stay low it’s definitely to the Axis favor. However, if the Axis don’t get lucky rolls concerning those 2 things or if they get bad rolls the first 2 turns - it’s pretty much game over for the Axis now.

7.1 is pretty lopsided. 6.1 was better because at least the game was more even.

The most experienced player needs to play the axis for sure.

I wouldn’t say this is a flaw at all but now if UK dumps every ship and plane into Egypt as fast as they can Italy can’t move into Africa until turn 3. And that is only after Italy builds ships the first two turns.

UK India navy may as well head to Egypt or else Japan kills it with their sneak attack. The UK can’t move their navy either but it basically ties Italy up with a cold war navy buildup.

To the designers - how many games of 7.1 have you played?

Out of 6 games we have played Axis won once but that was mainly due to good rolls in first turn.

Axis have never taken all of Russia’s cities. In 5 games they never held a single Russian cities for more than 1 round. I wouldn’t even say Russia is too strong. The Baltic States/Poland issue definitely buys Russia an extra round (even though it only addresses the center).

It’s the 1st turn that is the issue now it seems. Germany and especially Italy can’t seem to get enough of the UK navy, planes, and infantry out of the way. I think 6.1 was 60/40 Axis favor but I’m thinking now it’s 80/20 Allies favor.

It seems there could be possible rule misinterpretations from various people on the board. What is the percentage breakdown for the designers win/loss in 7.1?

This should be in 7.2. The rules don’t give all this information that is needed. No way people would know unless this read this.

The rules say that Bombers can “transport” paratroops into battle. The rules say Bomber can’t strategic bomb and “transport” in the same turn.

The rules DO NOT say anything about if bombers can attack with the paratroops. Can they? It changes the game completely if they can attack with the paratroop. We always played they can’t attack with the paratroop, but it doesn’t say they can’t. Can bombers attack with paratroops dropped into battle?

Anyone know the official answer?

@ ghr - it says “at end of turn 1”, it doesn’t say anything about “after” turn 1. There is a big difference between “end” and “after”. Therefore it’s allowed because it doesn’t say it’s not allowed.

However, if you find out anything different please let me know ASAP!

We are playing another game tomorrow with the official rules 7.1 rules and new Baltic States change, the new Turkey change (which has never happened in 15 games), and the new Spain change. I sense it’s going to help Russia and the Allies very much. We have never once taken Stalingrad with the new rules (in 5 games) so now Spain probably won’t get in the game which is huge around turn 7, 8, or 9 when it usually happens.

We are going to play Japan differently to see if that can change the game against Russia/India. I’m going to wait until after turn 3 to use the sneak attack (which will probably be disastrous for Japan). Then again, if they play Allies differently than normal I might have to use the sneak attack early.

Japan/UK usually try to set it up so they both tempted to attack each other so Japan can keep the US out of the war longer or the UK can try to get the US in it quicker. If not in the war yet - turn 2 India gets nearly 35 IPC (with bonus and DEI and turn 3 UK gets about 40 IPC.

@ ghr - Germany can take Poland and Baltic states after turn 1, they just cant own at the end of turn 1. So Russia has to take turn 1 or Germany will take turn 2.

I’m not sure if that was the intent but that is how the rules read.

This is how we play Russia. First turn take Poland (and now Baltic States with new rule). First 3 - 4 turns all IPC’s are dumped in the North to fight over Finland. Tanks from the East brought to the West. Chinese communist push as hard as they can into Japan (they basically take a Japanese territory for 1-2 turns before they are kicked back home in 1- 2 turns after that). Put 1 infantry in every spot that the Axis can attack only until they next to a city. Try to have counter attack equipment for bad Axis rolls/strategies or tank/plane piles with no support. Germany has to leave a unit behind on every spot to stop partisans and they have to fight over every single territory (even 1 Russian territory that has 1 infantry ties up 2 or 3 Axis units that turn, and then Axis have to leave behind something to stop the partisan!). The first 10 territories Germany owns in the center and the south isn’t that important. The US loans 20 IPC to Russia per turn (Russia usually gets about half of it). Russia keeps 15 infantry in the East at all times and 10 of them are in the fortress. Russia must take Finnish territory next to Leningrad by turn 4. This is now harder with Finland having the extra 4 infantry. UK keeps Russian convoy box open.

Strategies are hard to keep consistent but the above is what we have found to keep Russia alive. The lend lease every turn and building fortresses on the Northern IC and Stalingrad and/or Moscow (when they are in trouble) also are critical. Germany usually gets next to Stalingrad around turn 8 or 9 but are weak by then. They also generally take Leningrad around this time but can’t hold it. This could change with the new Baltic States rule, new Spain rule, and the extra 4 infantry for Finland.

I want to play this about 4 more times before we make more comments on Russia that I’m confident with.

Taking S.A. with Uk/Anzac has to be part of your strategy. The extra 10 IPC a turn adds up very quickly and it only needs 1 transport to get the process started.

When we play the US sends 50% of their income every single turn (to people in the war). It’s usually 20/10/10/10 Russia/Uk/India/Anzac unless someone is in trouble. That means 4 separate rolls every turn to spread the risk. We never send more than 20 due to interception. We always send Russia 20 every turn and Anzac gets the least amount. Most of the money ends up making it into allied hands. Every third turn or so the Axis end up intercepting. Sometimes they intercept 20 IPC from Russia, but sometimes they only intercept 6 ipc from Anzac.

Basically every turn 1 empire gets nothing from  lend lease, 1 gets about 1/2 the lend lease, 1 gets all the lend lease, and one roll can go any which way (statistically (some) money makes it to the allies most of the time).

It seems like people here have vastly different experiences with Axis strength. This game is for die hards only so I assume everyone has played a few hundred games of A+A.

The only thing I can see is that people are probably misinterpreting rules. Either we are or others on this board is. Or maybe people like to play historically instead of exploiting weaknesses?

The game was 60/40 for Axis and now its 40/60 for Axis, maybe even 35/65 with the 7.1 clarifications.

We going to read the rules and dissect to see if we misreading. No one can ever drop Moscow now but it seems like everyone says it’s easy to take.

Even in 6.1 we only dropped Moscow 1 time in 10 games.

We make the special +1/-1 ability of Germany in our games worthless. As soon as Germany is ready to be in the war Russia retreats everything except 1 infantry in each territory Germany can attack (except Leningrad but they have the fortress stacked with infantry so it’s fine. Russia can make major counter attacks or withdraw because they have the space.

I should say we’ve got pretty good at making Japan’s sneak attack much less powerful by simply retreating all ships within range of Japan. Basically we make Japan use their sneak attack the 1st 3 turns while they are still somewhat weak. Generally they go after the money islands. and They usually use on their sneak on round 2. I’d like to play where they use their sneak on round 5 or 6 but no one waits that long.

@ghr2

Statistically 2/3 of the time 50% or 100% of lend lease money makes it into the allies hands.

Basically we play the Allies as putting 80% of everything against the West.

We found the key is fortresses filled up with maximum Infantry and lend lease is the best strategy. US ends up being for support only and never does enough to really matter until around turn 10 when their presence begins to be strongly felt instead of being like China/Anzac where they are just an Axis annoyance. Getting into S.A. and Africa neutrals right away with the UK is very important to for the extra 10 - 15 IPC a turn.

It sounds like some people were playing wrong because they weren’t collecting IPC’s that Russia gets starting on turn 1 until in the war. At this point we are Allies 4 wins vs. Axis 1 win. Although 1 of the 4 Allied wins was due to luck.

Every game we have played has Finland on defense until turn 5 or 6. We never have enough IPC’s for German transports. We probably have different rule interpretations. We never play with Tech or optional rules either.

Can you make an “Official 7.1 clarification thread”? Thanks.

@ghr2

Eventually Russia does lose Leningrad. However, often Russia can take Leningrad back. I’ve found that Russia is really only defending 2 Victory Cities at a time. One is always Leningrad, and the other is Moscow or Stalingrad. Russia keeps 15 infantry in the east but basically lets Japan do what they want. The implied threat of 10 infantry in the Eastern fortress is actually worse than actual threat itself. Russia now keeps the eastern artillery in the east but moves the tanks to the west 1st turn.

Russia always goes heavy into Finland. Half the casualties with Germany and Russia in our games is over Finland/Leningrad. Now that Russia has their NO in Finland it will probably draw the UK into Finland now instead of Europe, but good or bad rolls can change strategy fast. Germany has a good bonus in Norway and now that Russia does too it makes it even more important. It’s actually pretty historical too so it’s more fun. You need Leningrad to get Spain so Germany basically doesn’t have a choice. Stalingrad is too far away. Germany sends 50% north and 25% center and 25% south.

@ tigerman - so is there going to be a 7.2 now? the only other rule I saw that was unclear was about fortresses being every round but it’s only the 1st round.

it would be nice if Italy started with a couple of their special units too, but we don’t want to get into that on here.