@barnee
Hi Barnee,
I’m still not enough into gaming, but wanted to say hello.
I had an opportunity to play once a few days ago.
Interesting introduction into A&A.
The Hex map is a welcome change which requires practice to read correctly.
Simple and well designed game, IMO.
Plus an added GIJoe flavor, indeed.
I have playtested my National Convoy House rule and Convoy SZs for 1941, so only Submarine can do convoy damage.
It works in a way that it increase possible losses for Allies vs Axis but the counter will be 0.5 IPC bonus per undamaged NCM for Allies while giving 1 IPC bonus for Axis, which I believe favors two Allied powers (UK and USA) over 1 Axis power (Japan).
I use Convoy rules to reduce UK and US economy, so purchasing become tough on pocket due to IPCs shortage. I have hope this can balance things out to play an interesting 1941 game.
Russia have 2 Convoy SZ**, so its economy can suffer from raid and get a little bonus.
National Convoy Disruption for 1941 Submarine economic warfare
First thing, each Convoy SZ is to be identify with owner’s Control Marker.
All Convoy SZs worth 2 IPCs and are bordering at least 1 TT or have one island group or more islands in it.
These TTs can worth 0 IPC to many IPCs, this doesn’t change the 2 IPCs Convoy SZ basis for 1941.
Here is all 1941 Convoy SZs I would implement (some such as SZs 2, 3, 28, 37, 40, 43 can be considered as Allied lend-lease shipping SZs coming from either UK or US toward Russia or Australia) :
Soviet Union 7 IPCs starting income.
2 C-SZs x 2 IPCs = 4 IPCs max.
SZ 4 (Karelia & Archangel), deactivated if both captured,
SZ 28 (Middle East), deactivated if captured.
Bonus: 2x 0.5 = up to 1 IPC
United Kingdom 12 IPCs
6 C-SZs x 2 IPCs = 12 IPCs max.
SZs 3 (Iceland), 10 (Eastern Canada),
14 (Gibraltar UK), 27 (Union of South Africa / French Madagascar),
30 (East Indies), 37 (Solomons).
Bonus: 6x 0.5 = up to 3 IPCs
United States 17 IPCs
7 C-SZs x 2 IPCs = 14 IPCs max.
SZs 2 (Greenland), 11 (US East Coast),
12 (Caribbean), 22 (Brazil),
SZs 40 (Hawaii), 43 (Midway), 48 (Alaska).
Bonus: 7x 0.5 = up to 3 IPCs
Germany 12 IPCs
2 C-SZ x 2 IPCs = 4 IPCs max.
SZ 5 (Norway-Finland: Baltic Sea)
SZ 17* (Anglo-Egypt Sudan)
Bonus: 2x 1.0 = up to 2 IPCs
Japan 9 IPCs
5 C-SZs x 2 IPCs = 10 IPCs max.
SZ 31 (Southeast Asia),
SZs 32* (Borneo), 38* (Philippines),
SZs 45 (Manchuria), 46 (Coastal China).
*Deactivated on set-up.
Bonus: 5x 1.0 = up to 5 IPCs
The most important thing to note :
lf at least 1 territory bordering (or Island or an Island group within) the Convoy SZ is taken from his original owner and the Convoy SZ belong to the same owner, then this Convoy SZ is deactivated and can no longer be raided by enemy’s of the original Convoy SZ owner’s which have his control marker in this Convoy SZ. But can no more gives bonus either.
When such Convoy SZ is deactivated, simply flip this Nation Control Marker face downward.
Only Submarine can raid Convoy SZ.
During Phase 3: Conduct Combat
Combat Sequence
1. Strategic and tactical bombing raids AND/OR Convoy Disruption
Each Submarine can either make a regular attack (Step 3. General combat) or a Convoy raid (Step 1. S&TBR AND/OR Convoy Disruption).
Even if there is warships (excluding DD) in Convoy SZ, Submarine can still make such raid.
Once the raid is done, Submarine cannot retreat and must stay in last raided C-SZ.
Each 6 IPCs Submarine can do 0 to 2 IPC damage, by rolling 1D6: 1-2 = 1 IPC / 3-4= 2 IPCs / 5-6 = 0 damage.
So a single Submarine may do from 0 IPC damage to 6 IPCs in a single raid, depending on how many SZ raided, up to 3 Convoy SZ.
There is no defense roll.
Destroyer presence protect a SZ from raiding.
Damage are immediately remove from Convoy owner’s hands, never more than 2 IPCs per SZ for the whole game round.
And attacker must put chips under SZ owner’s Control Marker (1 chip per IPC damage) as a reminder for the game round of how many IPCs were raided if multiple raids occur from more than one alliance powers.
These chips under owner’s National Control Marker will be removed at no cost from the Convoy SZ during raided SZ’s owner
6. Collect income phase while counting damaged C-SZ to give Convoy bonus IPC.
1941 Cost structure:
Sub 6, DD 8, Carrier 12, BB 16.
Unit type
Cost Combat values
Special abilities
SUBMARINE
6 IPCs A2 D1 M2
Cannot hit Submarine or Aircraft
Submerge and Stealth Move
Combat OR Convoy raiding
Convoy raiding: up to 3 rolls, max.
On Station: 3 rolls in same Convoy SZ
Active raiding:
1 roll in starting C-SZ,
1 roll in other C-SZ moving through, if any.
Can roll once or twice in ending Convoy SZ.
Max 3 rolls total.
Results per D6 roll:
1-2 : 1 IPC lost
3-4 : 2 IPCs lost
5-6: 0 IPC lost.
Once movement is done, roll according to C-SZ along the Submarine path.
DESTROYER
8 IPCs A2 D2 M2
Cannot block Sub’s Submerge
Block Stealth move and Convoy raid in actual SZ
Depth charge @2 once on submerging Subs.
@Imperious-Leader said in [1942 SE] Balancing the game suggestion:
@8d88 well the bomber can be placed in Finland so it will only be used in 7, that makes for no disaster for Germany in 7 and not a ruined game. Its hard for Germany to fail in 7 and lose a plane or two and still allow a UK BB.
By moving it into Finland, you want to preserve Egyptian troops for UK1, right?
As far as I understand, OOB setup was making UK too much behind. So, requiring a boost when playing in a Tournament because Allies did not have 6 or 7 hours to get the upper hand.
I also believe LHTR 3.0 forbid any possible Sea Lion.
Which was possible OOB.
I used Tank as substitute for Artillery bonus on Infantry.
No need for more sculpts, just giving +1 Attack bonus when paired 1:1 with a Tank.
That way, you introduce a combined arms mechanics at no real cost. In addition, you make Inf+ Tank combo the best attacking land units compared to 3 Infantry by a small margin, for same cost.
Assuming LHTR 3.0 but moving German Bomber out of Ukraine and giving USSR a bomber while letting the Fighter in Ukraine can it be enough to keep balance in same zone as LHTR?
@Faramir said in [1942 SE] Balancing the game suggestion:
@willdan5 1942 SE with the tournament setup is pretty balanced. Germany will defeat Russia 1v1, but it isn’t a 1v1 game.
However, Russia1 is pretty scripted on Ukraine S.S.R.
@Faramir said in [Global 1940] Changing AA in the game:
Cost 3
Attack 1
Defense 1
Gets 1 shot vs air at 1.
Do you mean 1 AA shot both for offense and defense? Or just as usual AAgun on defense only?
Interesting way to get a better balance.
Maybe this + 8 IPCs shift can be made without using the map and average.
We still have to invent a way to provide
@Imperious-Leader
Hi IL,
I can see that some TTy in Siberia did not worth a real boost in economy.
Your suggestion made me think about a way to expand my first idea a little bit more, even if it is not truly accurate/realistic from a geo-economic POV.
When invading a Zero IPC island TTy with an amphibious assault, if winning get 2 IPCs.
If defending side won the battle, he get 1 IPC.
If it is a Zero IPC continental TTy, the invader gain 1 IPC.
It remains a bonus given through the result of a combat. No additional economic value to keep such islands on subsequent rounds.
That way, it is an incentive to fight over these TTys nonetheless.
@General-6-Stars said in [Global 1940] Changing AA in the game:
@baron-Münchhausen said in [Global 1940] Changing AA in the game:
Another way to keep 5 IPCs AAA interesting is to make it a 2 hits unit, which could be repaired on next purchase phase.
Up to 3 preemptive rolls @1, then can soak 1 hit before being destroyed. No roll during regular battle.
Someway to figure strongholds and somekind of defensive fortifications.
Buying them is still a niche units for specific defensive situation but cannot buy only such.
Cost to low for a 2 hit unit. Be used as a fortification.
Hi General,
Can you develop a little more, please ?
In many occurrence, unless a very large stack of units in Capitol Victory city, when on defense with AA guns, they might be destroyed in many battles due to overwhelming attacking units. In addition, beside the opening rolls, it is only value as hit soaker while an Inf or Arty still roll @2.
5 IPCs for 2 hits, is 2.5/ hit but AA gun has no mobility Combat move and cannot be use on offense, to the contrary of standard units.
I don’t see how it can drag down so much a game to make it an all purchase favorite to turtle up. 2x 5 IPCs can provide a Fighter and is much more interesting in many aspect.
Maybe it can be interesting to compare all cases on a 30 IPCs basis:
1- 10 infantry (A10 D20, 10 hits)
2- 6 AA guns (A0 D1* vs up to 18*, 12 hits)
3- 3 Fighters (A9 D12, 3 hits)
4- 5 Inf, 3 AA (11 hits)
5- 5 Inf, 1 AA, 1 Fg (8 hits)
Another way to keep 5 IPCs AAA interesting is to make it a 2 hits unit, which could be repaired on next purchase phase.
Up to 3 preemptive rolls @1, then can soak 1 hit before being destroyed. No roll during regular battle.
Someway to figure strongholds and somekind of defensive fortifications.
Buying them is still a niche units for specific defensive situation but cannot buy only such.
I read somewhere that the reason why it was 3 preemptive roll @1 is because other land units defend @2. So, rolling each round contrive the owner to keep a lesser roll @1/6 and to take casualty on @2/6 which is a hard choice involving risk on losing a better odds in hope of a more harmful hit on a costlier unit.
By rolling at the outskirt of battle, you already know if this AAA unit got a hit or not. This smooth the order of losses while choosing casualty.
Up to 3 rolls is another way to tell that this AAA unit was able to remain on board 3 rounds before being taken as a probable losses.
Not bad considering it is a 1/6 odds unit.
In many battle, third round can be poking hole into Artillery/MI or Tank stack.
Hi guys,
I wonder if any gameboard players have invented something about all these territories with no economic value.
Here is one, feel free to add up yours below:
When such Territory or Island is captured, give the new owner a one time 1 IPC bonus.
Theme: National pride & morale improvement.
If such territory or island is exchanged between Powers, the 1 IPC bonus work both sides.
It still worth zero IPC when calculating income.
What do you think?
Can this minimal bonus might changed balance or just make an incentive for more action?
@SuperbattleshipYamato
Shorebombardment mecanic is probably hardcoded into TripleA.
However, it is certainly possible to adjust first strike AA phase. But, I’m not sure it is easy to add a combined arms with it.
Another way to improve Battleship drastically over 2-hits Carriers can also to implement 1942.2 2-hits Battleship, which auto-repair after combat.
@vodot said in [1942 2nd ] Submarine/Air Unit rule actually a drawback?:
@general-6-stars said in [1942 2nd ] Submarine/Air Unit rule actually a drawback?:
What do you mean by they will always be hit last ? Subs ?
I mean that under my proposed rule change subs would always be hit last by any aircraft that could hit them. Subs could only be assigned hits from enemy aircraft if there were no surface ships eligible to receive those hits.
Going back to the 1DD + 2FTR attacking 1BB + 6SS example, the defending subs could still be hit by the attacking aircraft - but only after the BB has been sunk (and providing the DD has survived that long).
Currently per RAW, subs can soak aircraft hits as long as there’s also an enemy destroyer present (the gist of the original complaint from @Megatron). The attacker in the above example is forced to sub-hunt first (because of A&A’s defender-chosen Order-of-Loss (OOL) rules) - while the ignored BB shoots his sub-hunting planes out of the sky. If the attacker leaves his DD behind, this combat is suddenly correct - the fighters duel with the BB and ignore the subs.
To rephrase the OP again, there shouldn’t be a case where an attacker is de-incentivized from bringing DDs into combat with subs out of fear that their DDs will enable the enemy’s subs to “leap out of the waves” (as @aardvarkpepper put it) to absorb hits from their attacking aircraft!
My rule change represents what I think is a best of both worlds with one simple change - let the subs be hit by aircraft+DD groups while preventing them from soaking the damage from the aerial portion of a large combined air/naval battle.
Making it based on OOL (order of loss) works well, I think, because OOL is not really relevant in the one situation where an a/c+DD group would WANT to hit subs - when sub-hunting/clearing sub groups. OOL isn’t important if subs are the only defending units!
Does that make sense?
At attacker that brings a DD + planes into a SZ with only enemy subs probably wants to sub hunt. That’s the RAI; he should be able to do that just like the OOB rules. However, an attacker bringing a DD + planes into a SZ with subs and a bunch of surface warships is definitely not sub-hunting - he is attacking a surface fleet! Sure, once he wipes out the fleet he will want to hunt the subs too; but that’s the correct OOL: he will want to hit the surface ships first. We shouldn’t penalize him for buying the DD by forcing every attack that contains a DD+A/C to sub-hunt before attacking the surface fleet.
Hi Vodot,
you got it right. A few months earlier, I got the same issue on a DK’s treads.
A few houserules can provide for keeping Destroyer as seafodder, even with C8 higher relative cost to Subs at 6 IPCs.
In addition to
I agree 8 IPCs is high for naval fodder, but in a game with higher economy like G40, it remains reasonable and yet more pieces make for a longer game. So, in 1942.2, 8 IPCs can be useful to keep in check pieces junkies who wants more units on board and aiming at a 12 hours game.
@Ritterkrieg said in [Global 1940] How to make cruisers and battleships work?:
@superbattleshipyamato Great assessment.
Currently, the rules for all versions don’t incentivize Cruiser purchases.
A simple specialization might change this. Make Cruisers the equivalent of land-based AAA units. That is, a one-shot, pre-battle, aircraft defensive roll of 1 to hit aircraft only. Same rules as AAA. 1 unit=3 max. rolls.Only usable while the Defender.
Thoughts?
Troy
Hi everyone!
It’s been a while since I had focused on A&A.
On my next occasion,
I intend to use a combined arms for my 12 IPCs Cruiser Moving 3(4), and AA platform.
Same rule as an AAA (up to 3@1) for both offense and defense. Need to be paired 1:1 to either Carrier or Battleship to be activate.
Do you see any issue about attacking Cruiser with AA capacities when paired with 1 capital ship?
Also, for 20 IPCs Battleship Moving 2(3), I intend to tweak the shore bombardment to be 2@4, if at least 2 units are landing.
In addition, a naval combat would nullify only 1 roll @4.
Exception, if the Battleship was damaged in the previous naval battle, she cannot perform any shore bombardment.
Do you think it might be enough to help them be part of the naval purchase?
For M3 Cruiser, I also intend to provide +1M for 1 Transport or 1 Destroyer when paired 1:1 with.
So, at a Naval Base, 1 Cruiser & 1 Destroyer can move up to 4 SZs together. Same for 1 Transport with 1 Cruiser.
That way, pairing Cruiser with small or capital warships, will bring interesting tactical options, don’t you think?
@Navalland said in Balancing Cruiser (CL) and Battleship (BB) units with other A&A units:
I’m interested in playing customized 1942.2 with Italian presence and armours with 5ipc cost.
Better to talk about it on the thread you started, to not derailed this one.
Can you send the link?
@Navalland said in Balancing Cruiser (CL) and Battleship (BB) units with other A&A units:
How much bid do you give Allies in 1942.2?
Never use bid. Only 1942 customized game, as I have not much opportunity to play with friends. Usually, either side can win. I’m more interested in balancing my game with Triple A before playing on table top.
@Navalland said in New Strategic Bomber (for SBR exclusively):
I prefer having one multipurpose unit instead of two specialized units.
You are the master on your table.
All these are about an issue which can appear as a matter of taste.
Fighter are not use the same way as bomber, but if you want a single kind of Aircraft like 1914, it is up to you.
The issue on this thread was about never find relevant to use Strategic bombers as strategic bomber in game. Being a suboptimal strategy.
So, how can a Strategic bomber can be use as such like it was in WW2?
Black Elk suggested an idea, which I find more interesting in combination with introducing Tactical bombers from G40 game.
@Navalland said in Balancing Cruiser (CL) and Battleship (BB) units with other A&A units:
I like new type of units only if they are absolutely needed and bring somethings to the table which other units couldn’t. I wouldn’t really want 2 type of cruisers just sake of history, I didn’t even find particularly useful introducing mechanized inf, and tactical bombers.
It depends about what kind of game you like on 1942.2 map.
I really like Tactical Bomber as an addition. However, the map is small for a second M2 unit along with Tank. It clearly switch the balance toward Germany and Axis.
I like to specialized my aircraft types. Since I have both G40 and 1942 games, I can use all my sculpts, as I wish.
Adding WW1 Battleship from 1914 can make it possible to add such. But I really don’t think it adds anything to game dynamic if there is another type of Cruiser. There is enough warships as it is, IMO.