Posts made by AxisBrutality

@Cow:

So you are attacking Ukraine on R1 with only one fighter?  Seems risky.

Russia has tanks and arty and inf in caucasus. You don’t have the balls to attack? Seriously? you can all in west russia as well. No balls for that either?

Russia has tanks and arty and you should keep them. All agree that West Russia should be taken care off? Why is that? Because Russian only loses 2 or 3 INF + BONUS BINGO, Germany can not take it back!

Now Ukraine is a completely different issue, Russian arts and tanks being wiped out on G1 turn, that’s very bad for Russian offencive capabilities as I mentioned.

Russia should rather take Belarus, again, a place were Russia only risks of losing men and reduces German number of men easier with less costly counter attack by Germany afterwards.

@Cow:

you could block germany with a destroyer purchase if it helps more than a carrier buy.

Yes, but that is a DD or 8 IPC out of the window. It’s smarter to defend your UK fleet with all the fighters, DD + 2 Carriers and let the Germany come if they dare, instead of being stupid to go after German fleet. Let the Germany use their fighters which are worse at attacking while UK is better at defending with both carriers and fighters. So if Germany does attack that UK fleet I told earlier about, Germany will suffer heavy losses, and if they don’t take out that fleet, then the UK has a fleet ready already by UK2 turn.

@Mallery29:

NO VC……fight to the last man!

Agree! Total Annihilation :)

@Cow:

no you should attack with russia. The rest of the allies are going full atlantic, russia is supposed to soften it up, plus saving egypt is good.

Egypt is such a huge distraction for the allies

As I said earlier, there is no point in attacking Ukraine, since you want to do this, you need to explain why? I explained why it is NOT a good idea.

Second of all, I never said I’ll take Egypt, I’ll massacre that 1 UK INF on Syria with 2 German units which are 1 INF + 1 ART. German Battleship takes care of the UK DD there.

As we know, that German fighter from Ukraine can not attack Egypt anyway. Now, some seem worried about Germany being able to take Caucasus, LOL, that’s the point of my traps I lay all the time. Let Germany think it’s a good idea to try to take Caucasus on G1 turn with what 3 or 5 INF + 3 Armor? In stead of Russia losing Armor and Artilleries in Ukraine, let the Germany lose their Armor in Caucasus if they are so stupid.
And you should NOT worry about any German “stack” on Ukraine, if Russia keeps it all 4 Armor, 3 artilleries + let’s say buys 6 INF + 1 Armor. No German player would be so stupid so stack anything on Ukraine, and much less being a retard to try to take Caucasus with 3-5 Inf + 3 armor, splitting up it’s forces and they die like a dog when R2 turn starts, that’s not gonna be pretty for German troops there.

@Mallery29:

The UK should support the planes…that’s why I insist on the UK3 buy, and not the UK1 buy that axisbrutality desires…I see his point IF the Canadian transport lives…it would be pretty tough, but you could possibly take German planes with you and for sure eliminate the German sub fleet…so that move isn’t a bad buy by axisbrut, I may not do it,

Hi again,

Yes, that’s the point of my strategy, I would do this if the Canada DD and Trans survives, which it seems like here, they do.

It’s simple logic. Those who buy 2 UK FTR on UK1 will lose because that player will fight on Germany’s terms.
If a player buys a UK Fleet, as I do, then the fight will be on UK terms, simple as that. And if Germany does NOT attack, well then, voila, UK has a fleet when they start UK2. And if Germany does attack on G2 turn, both fighters AND carriers are better at defence, instead of bying just 2 UK FTR and using them at German fleet, where UK FTR are WORSE at attacking than defending.

Other things worth mentioning is that those 2 German subs attacking U.S DD + 2 Transport can NOT get to the London SZ7, it’s 3 spaces to there. So Germany would not have more that 1 sub there to attack UK fleet with, because Germany will lose at least one sub in the beginning attacking UK Battleship + Russian sub.

This is the point of the mind game, making the opponent go into traps and/or play on your terms.

Same goes for the trap I layed in Syria, where some UK players wanted to attack my German Battleship on Syria, which meant that Japan fleet could survive, and slaughter everything in East-Asia. I don’t say UK should attack the Japanese fleet, but I am saying that forcing UK to attack my German Battleship was fun, taking away UK’s ability to attack Japanese Fleet and the situation was that UK would lose planes big time on both UK1 and UK2.

So a good rule here, when UK, no matter what Germany does, build Fleet Power all the way! That’s what UK is, a fleet powered nation, not a nation to sit on an island with a few small fighters which are worse at attacking than defending, and being cut off from the rest of the Europe and the World.

Japan should always build a factory right away, although I can agree that you don’t want U.S. to build factory on Alaska, but that depends on the situation, U.S. could wait with that one a little later though.

And when it comes to Russia, one of the reasons as I can see, is that Russia’s offencive capabilities, as I said, collapse if people attack Ukraine, so do NOT attack Ukraine, it’s a trap. That German fighter there does NOT have anything more to say regarding Egypt, so the advantage of attacking Ukraine is totally lost compared to 2009-version. � We all agree that West Russia should be taken care off + I would go for Belarus, and not Ukraine.

As I said earlier, Russian should never engage in a battle where they start losing artilleries right in the beginning on G1 turn, and losing tanks, which are now in this version, even MORE expencive. Russia losing 33% of it’s artilleries and 50% of it’s tanks after G1 clears and takes back Ukraine is not good for Russia’s offencive capabilities. Tanks are as good in defense as in attack so do NOT lose them, and same for the artilleries, they boost INF, so don’t lose artilleries either. Also artilleries are as good in defence as in attack, so there is no advantage what so ever for Russia to go into Ukraine.

@oztea:

Well it wouldn’t be so bad if the UK wasn’t losing a BB and Trans also.

Allow me to counter the Germany. Some here say, take out UK BB+Transport on London.  Take out UK DD on Syria, which I do, I even take Syria with troops on G1 turn. Great so far, I agree.
And then it was argued that 2 Atlantic subs should take out the USA DD + 2 Transports.

Ok, now my turn, UK1 turn starts:

I don’t buy 2 FTR which is stupid thing to do.

I would according to this situation, buy 2 Carriers + 1 INF. I put the 1 INF on India, and 2 Carriers on London, SZ7.
Land 2 UK FTR from London on those carriers. Move a Canada DD and Transport together with Carriers and take one Canada tank with you to London on the way.
When US1 turn starts, fly that 1 FTR from Eastern U.S to one of the UK Carriers.

Now before G2 turn starts, UK should have there 2 Carriers with total of 3 FTR + DD + Transport.
This is some serious naval power, and if Germany starts to attack this with German fleet + air power, Germany would start losing boats + planes.

The only way to prevent this from happening is to strike Canada DD + Transport instead of attacking the USA DD + 2 Transports. Still, UK can build 2 Carriers + having 3 FTR on them waiting for any German attack, even with no UK DD from Canada with them.

As an experienced player, I find it totally unacceptable UK being cut of from the seas for like 3 or 4 rounds, by that time, Allies are pretty much dead. UK needs naval power right away.

@miamiumike:

So, last night was able to play my 2nd official game of AA42-2E. Now - we are playing using the FTF tournament rules that are used at Origins and GenCon - 5 hour game - most VC at the end of the time wins - unless one side gets the OOB victory conditions. We also used a chess clock to time our moves and this added a sense of urgency.

Russians started out well with 2 attacks on the Germans with minimal losses. Germany responded by eliminating the UK BB/Trans, the Us DD and 2 Trans and bought a carrier and destroyer and men (more on that later).

Japan decided to build a complex in Manchuria, and attacked all 4 US territories- while not taking them all, they did kill the US fighter. They also bought a 3rd carrier. The US consolidated its pretty significant fleet off the West Coast and added to it a ton.

MM

That’s blasphemy! LOL, just kidding, I was “attacked” on the “opening moves thread” for bying naval units for Germany and factory for Japan. But this is the only way, bying some naval units for Germany, to make the way to Karelia a LOT shorter as you said + threatening UK. Also factory on Japan producing units combined with dumping in units with transports as fast as possible on J2 turn is also essential.

@malfnuction:

I saw it coming…the game is "unbalanced"�  :roll:

There will never have balance is a game like this. It is impossible. The fact is there are three countries vs two…talk about imbalance, its there from the get go.

If you want to just keep doing the same strat for every A&A game that comes out, well, dont buy new games with different map set-ups. Play the Original and stick to the super,ultra-boring UK1-Aircraft-Carrier-US/Europe Shuck, ���-Factory-in Manchuria-JTDTM-“Infantry Push Mechanic”…zzzzzzz

I have been playing since the mid-80’s and I have tried dozens of different strategies, some bad, some terrible,some that went exceedingly well. If you just do the same thing over and over and over you are missing the real joy of this game.

Guess what?�  This isnt a real war. Its a board game. If you lose, you can play a different strat next time.

Sometimes losing is just as fun as winning. If you take chances, even when the odds are against you, thats what keeps the game fresh. Its about having fun, not saving the world.

Exactly. I had this discussion on the “opening moves thread”, and that is the same thing I was saying, one cannot use the same strategy for each version, because versions are totally different, even one or two spaces makes the thing completely different. So I agree with you, same goes for having fun of course :)

@Mallery29:

Fine, I agree with Hobbes…you’re a noob.

Lol, I think it’s really clear who reacts aggressivly here, with basically no good arguments. I don’t have anything against you, I just simply point out huge weaknesses in your strategy while you resort to calling others names.

UK simply continues buying fighters on UK2 and UK3 - 8 fighters on UK4 and the German fleet of 1 battleship, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser and 2 fighters is toast, while the US also builds its presence on the UK to wipe out any survivors. And the UK still has 2-4 fighters off to Moscow or elsewhere while Germany most loses the ability to challenge the Atlantic. And that’s 34 IPCs spent by Germany that could now be 11 infantry defending France from Allied landings or being used against Russia. Gone. And the Allies didn’t even had to land to kill the equivalent of those units.
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You can do that, it will not help UK, how can you say it’s great for UK to just sit there, accept it’s fleet being wiped out, reducing UK to one building 2 FTR a round and like 2 ART on India? This is not a good strategy. If we follow this, you will not be a threat to a German fleet until you have 6 FTR.

Yes, I could buy 11 INF for Germany, and just sit like an idiot, looking how Allies are buildning their fleets, preparing for an invasion, but this is not what Axis is all about, Axis are ment to be aggressive, you should know that. If Axis goes into the defence, they will lose eventually. While you degrade Russian offencive capabilies in Ukraine, it’s even more tempting and wise to build as I did, some naval units for the first two rounds.

Look at this this way, I forced you to spend not 34 but somewhere between 40 and 60 IPC on units which can’t invade, on units which can’t take a country by themself, they can only attack or defend, and they are worse at attacking than defending.

50 IPC would give you a lot more naval power to expand your London Fleet with exsisting UK Battleship + Transport, which you say are “dead” ( they doesn’t need to be ) than simply bying 5 FTR.

@Mallery29:

How the hell is the E. Indies Japanese fleet 100% safe? It’s in total danger, especially if you don’t get that FTR in Egypt, that could leave UK with a carrier and two FTRs…and if they build anything in India, time for the rising sun to set!  The UK fleet will be wiped out on G1…on 1st ed, I probably wouldn’t go after the BB because I had the gringos to kill (CA/2Trans vs SS), but now, all London can do for the time being is build air units…and so what about Africa?  I don’t care…while the Allies needed Africa in 1st ed, the UK ALREADY has a 2nd complex so me losing a couple of IPCs is completely irrelevant…if Germany wants to expend so much resources in taking IPCs, "be my guest, be my guest, put your waste of money to the test"  The UKs main power has shifted to India in this game, which will make things very interesting in the Middle East/Pacific…This shift makes me more interested in a KJF strat now…

Can you talk at least normal as Hobbes does, instead of being aggressive and cursing all the time ? Thanks in advance.
The Japanese fleet is not in danger when J1 turn starts. I will merge E-Indies fleet with a Cruiser and another Carrier from Caroline Islands. Then it will matter very little if a second UK FTR survives after trying a suicide mission against a German Battleship on SZ17. But most probably that 1 UK FTR, will be dead. If not, a Japanese fleet will be merged anyway outside F.I.C. and FIC will be safe from any UK attack. Japan can wipe out because of this all 6 US INF and 1 FTR that are on Chinese territories.

Now that Japanese fleet survives, there is no need for a Japanese Carrier which you want to buy. Now, I can buy a factory as Japan should + dump in forces on mainland, again as Japan should, as FAST as possible. Besides factory, I would buy another Transport, 1 ART, 1 INF and save I IPC. This enables Japan to dump into the mainland 6 units on J2 turn + add 2-3 units on it’s newly built factory from J1 turn. This is how it should be, and NOT accepting Japan to lose 33% of planes, 50% of Carriers and Battleships before it even starts.  Axis has to cooperate in the same way Allies does, this seem to be sowewhat hard for you to understand. I just commented what happens if you try to attack my German Battleship on SZ17 after I massacred your UK 1 INF on Syria + UK DD there.  So if you touch German Battleship, this is what happens when Japan starts it’s turn.

Then on UK2 it builds 2 more fighters and it now has 6 FTRs and 1 BMR against the German Baltic fleet. Germany has to build more naval on G3 else its carrier, fighters, cruiser and transport are dead on UK3. And the leftover Allied fighters can still go to Moscow after they sink the German fleet.

I’m already used to that UK fleet being blasted away on the majority of the hundreds of games I’ve played Spring 1942 1st Ed. - apparently that’s news to you though…

Apparently the world class player hasn’t figured it out yet… building ANY British ships on UK waters on UK1 will usually suicide and a waste because of the Germans power and the new SZ dispositions.
The US can’t reach and reinforce an UK fleet with its starting ships so the UK can only place 1 carrier and 2 destroyers, together with the Soviet sub and 2 FTRs. The Germans should have 2-3 subs, plus most airforce in range, so any naval buys on UK1 are a waste if the Germans can reach and sink them.

The best UK1 buy on that situation actually 2 FTRs, 2 INF, 1 ART, put the fighters on UK and the ground units to India.

1 fighter from the fleet off India, the other from Egypt, remaining units (bomber) land on Egypt. That retains the 4 FTRs on the UK to use against the Baltic fleet.

Yupiii… the East Indies fleet is safe… wait, didn’t that happened already on 1st Edition and the Axis could still lose the game?

1. Yes, UK can continue to buy 2 FTR each round, but that is NOT what UK is “made” for. UK needs to have a fleet outside London, and push units against Germany, this is normal and pretty much logical.  Letting a UK fleet outside London sink, makes UK totally crippled.

I don’t need to buy more naval units with Germany than what I said I will do. G1 = Battleship and maybe a Transport, but Battleship + 7 INF is a very good buy.  G2 turn = Carrier + 1 ART + 8 INF. So the funny part is that UK is letting it’s fleet getting wiped out while Germany expands it’s fleet and takes out your 4 FTR if you ever decide to attack on UK2.

As you said, you would need 6 FTR. Remember, there is NO UK Bomber left anymore to attack Baltic Fleet on UK2, because as you said, you would land your UK Bomber on Egypt, the only possible place to land because I took Syria.
Then try to guess what happens to that UK Bomber in Egypt on G2 turn ?

So basically, you would have only 4 FTR to attack German Baltic Sea fleet with on UK2. Germany on the other hand has BB, Carrier with 2 FTR +  Cruiser + Transport. If you want to commit suicide with 4 UK FTR, be my guest, but it’s not going to be fun for the UK Air Force. You will get 2 hits with 4 FTR and then they die, one of the hits is absorbed by the German Battleship.

There is a good possibility to save a UK fleet on London. If the U.S. attacks German subs outside Canada with U.S. DD and 1 FTR + 1 BMR, then U.S. will be able to wipe them out, although U.S. will not be able to unload anything on Morocco. Allthough that still gives Germany 2 more subs in the North Sea.
Now, the way UK can save it’s fleet is to build a carrier outside of London, land 1 UK FTR on it. On U.S. turn, American FTR lands on UK carrier after attacking German subs on Canada.  Furthermore UK could buy additional cruiser which would give UK a fleet of 1 BB, 1 Cruiser, 1 Russian sub + 1 Carrier with 2 FTR.  Now, you tell me,how Germans are going to sink that with having only 2 subs as a “shield” ?

So you could say I think it is funny that you or others choose to let the UK fleet outside London, just die.

East Indies being safe, yes, totally worth it. In previous versions, those Japanese ships were NOT in the UK range of attack, they are NOW. As you said, there is a 63% chance that UK will win if they attack, with my strategy, that prosentage is NOW ZERO, which gives Japan a massive air and naval power to start with. You see, I don’t like seeing Japan losing 33% of it’s FTR before they even start, and I don’t like Japan losing 50% of their Battleships or Carriers before it is even Japanese turn ;)

Allied UK player builds fighters to sink the German fleet. Then fighters fly off to Moscow and/or India to help defend it after sinking the German fleet.
Win-win situation for Allies: they destroy a significant portion of the German forces and can still use those fighters on Asia or Europe.Â

And you’ll lose the German fleet on SZ17 to a combined UK1 attack of 2 FTRs, 1 BMR. And lose Syria as well if the UK so desires. Don’t assume that the UK needs to attack the East Indies fleet - with only 63% odds it is a decision that needs to be weighted carefully.

As mentioned above, why should the UK risk attacking East Indies with 60% something odds when it can sink the German fleet and secure Africa for the Allies? Just the starting IC on India gives it a lot more options to slow down Japan on Asia.

Yeah, look at the numbers: Soviets build 24 worth of ground units. Germany buys a Battleship and only builds 21 worth of ground units, of which 7-9 will be sent to Africa, so that leaves only 12-14 in reinforcements against  the Soviets’ 24.
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1. You mentioned you would build 2 FTR on UK1 to sink a German fleet in the Baltic. I told you I would consider building a Carrier + 1 ART + 8 INF on G2 turn. And I would land 2 German FTR on that Carrier. You must understand that 4 UK FTR and 1 BMR cannot sink German BB, 2 FTR, Carrier and Cruiser. Your entire UK Air Force would be wiped out. There would NOT be any planes going to Moscow OR India for that matter.

When you build 2 UK FTR, then you only have 11 IPC left. Your UK BB is there alone with a 1 Russian sub. Try to guess what happens to that UK BB and Russian sub when it is G2 turn ?

I mean, don’t you plan on expanding a UK fleet outside London? Because that UK BB is dead there all alone when G2 turn starts. Or else you have to move UK BB away to Canada. Either way, your strategy does not bring many UK INFs or ART against Germany, on contrary, it brings basically ZERO units against Germany on UK1 turn, same for UK2 if you buy 2 FTR and just sitting there with 11 IPC left which barely gives you a DD to buy. Again, no units on India either if you buy DD to give some more protection to your UK BB on London.

Yes, of course, if you use 2 UK FTR AND 1 BMR then you can sink that German BB on SZ17. However, again, you have to take FTR causalties for the UK Air Force, which according to your strategy would be now basically wiped out by UK2 turn.  And having Japanese Fleet outside E.Indies 100% safe is a BIG advantage for Japan, which is now according to this 2012 version in harder position that earlier. But with that fleet alive outside East Indies, options for Japan are HUGE. They can wipe out entire U.S. force across all 3 Chinese territories + take a Russian territory too.
Not to mention securing FIC to even bigger extend, which you preferred just to trade off with the UK. I on the other hand don’t want UK even near FIC.

All German Naval units have the option to attack the Caucasus also, not just Egypt or Syria, it’s not like German units dissapear if I ship them to Egypt or Syria, they would be destroying UK forces there with minimal losses, which again helps Japan to huge extent. Russian units on the other hand will be having some seriously bad offensive capability after you allowing Russia to lose 2 out of it’s 4 Armor and 1 out of it’s 3 Artilleries.

If you want to ignore the fact that the previous versions of the game have been played for decades and German naval buys are never an optimal move on any of them, then be my guest.

And if we ever play online and I’m Allies, please play like this as Germany - I love when noobs go for German naval builds on 1st Edition ;)
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Hi again, I don’t play online, I play directly on the board, that’s the most fun.

Second of all, we are not talking about previous versions here, do we? We are talking about 2012 - 2nd edition.

I’ve played this since mid-90s.  The game from 1984 until 2004 when the 2004 version came out which I played until 2009 until the 2009 - version came out, and now I will not play 2009 - version anymore because 2012 - version is out.

If you look at the map and sea zones, they change each time, same goes for the setup. Therefore it is very unwise to use the same strategy for “all the versions”. I’ve never used the same strategy for them all, because it is impossible.

As I mentioned, with this version, German fighters can’t attack Egypt, however, I can attack Syria with a bomber, I can take out UK DD there too with German BB. Syria belongs to Germany after G1 turn.

2 German subs take out UK Transport and DD very easy outside Canada, no losses for Germany at all.  3 German FTR sinks UK Cruiser on Gibraltar, and German risks losing only 1 FTR.

This means Germany has wiped out 42 IPC on UK, while Germany risks at it’s worst losing 1 INF in Syria, and 1 FTR outside Gibraltar.

No UK bomber can threat German BB outside Syria because there are 5 spaces to get there from London. It’s simple as that. The bomber would have to take suicide with the UK FTR from Egypt in order to attack German BB outside Syria. Not exactly a good option if you plan on attacking Japanese fleet outside E.Indies, is it :)

And now that tanks cost 6 IPC, instead of 5, we need to be more careful with losing them. Russia should never engage in a battle in the beginning where they lose artilleries and now more expencive tanks for basically nothing. In 2009 version at least, I knew why it was good to attack Ukraine, it’s to prevend German fighter assisting in Egypt. Now, that is not a case anymore, and tanks cost 6.

Germany has increased it’s IPC to 41 now, Russia on the other hand is sitting with a factory on Karelia which is hard to defend, fewer men and still only 24 IPC to buy with. Germany on the other hand got the Cruiser now in the Baltic, and another Sub in the Atlantic, and more INF on Morocco, and basically sitting there with at least 9 Armor, a huge stack of men and artilleries and at least 5 FTR + bomber + 2 battleships when I buy one.

You also have to look at what prosentages of the IPC a country loses. When Russia loses 40 IPC, and can build for 24 that is 167% of Russias income. Germany losing 51 on the other hand is only 126% of Germany’s income. You need to take all these factors I have mentioned into consideration.

@Hobbes:

@AxisBrutality:

Again, you are not arguing why it is a “bad” idea, you just say it’s a bad idea. A new battleship gives BOOST to a exsisting Cruiser in the Baltic Sea OR another Battleship in the Mediterranian Sea. That gives Germany 2 Battleships to attack shores with Egypt OR Syria OR Caucasus because a enemy unit can fire. The same thing if the Battleship is places in the Baltic Sea, both can fire all the time at Karelia and threaten UK all the time. A destroyer which you are suggesting, CAN’T do that and does not secure German fleet. We are talking about a difference of 8 IPC between your and mine suggestion, and I don’t think 1 Armor + 2 saved IPC for next round will do a “massive” difference on the eastern front at all, but on the Seas - a HUGE difference!

OK, Germany buys a Battleship and places it on the Baltic. UK buys 2 fighters on UK1. Germany either buys more ships (at the expense of the Eastern front) or its initial investment will be sunk. The same logic applies to any naval builds to the Med - the Allies only need to buy planes and those ships will be sunk quickly.

Who wins? The UK and the US since all the German money going to boats will be eventually destroyed and they are taking down Germany without having to land units, and the Soviets because those German land units can’t be used directly against them, unlike infantry, artillery and armor.

But feel free to buy naval units for Germany… the Allies enjoy the help :)

Oc course UK can buy 2 FTR, great. And what are they going to buy on land in either London or India? Any naval units? Oh, I guess not. LOL, 2 FTS + 11 IPC, that’s is NOT a good buy.

If you read what I wrote, I can choose to place BB in either Italy OR Baltic Sea, it depends on the Russian assault. But either way, UK cannot sink German fleet.

If UK buy 2 FTR, fine, then UK will have 4 FTR and 1 bomber. But none naval units added, and a very few ground units added. Germany can on it’s second turn, with my strategy taking Syria, and most likely saving E.Indies, because Egypt and Syria will be under threat ( strange that no-one commented that ) , Germany can again expand the fleet with a carrier, and still have 28 IPC to buy units for which is the same amount Russia had for it’s 2nd turn, so that is a equal match. I could buy 8 INF and 1 ART.

Fighters plans can land on a German carrier right away, so the German fleet in the Baltic would be safe anyway, UK will not risk their 4 FTR and 1 Bomber against German carrier, 2 FTR, Cruiser and Battleship, and the UK will not will that fight either.

I don’t need to mention what happens with a UK Battleship standing there alone outside UK with 1 Russian sub, lol facing at least 2 German Sub in the North Sea and most of the German Air Force.

@Mallery29:

The Germans have no DD! Oh my god, it’s like I’m talking to a brick wall….You win, you’re right…enjoy life…

Did I say Germans had a DD = Destroyer? You said UK can attack German Battleship with UK Destroyer and a bomber, I am saying that there is NO UK Destroyer there after Germany is done with Syria on their first turn!

@Mallery29:

The DD is to protect the BB against a suicidal Bomber/DD from UK…the subs in concert with the air force at France provides the fodder so you don’t have to sack planes against an invasion…that’s what you have to prevent…an invasion…going on the offense on the seas for Germany after G1 will only cause your surrender by turn 5.

You need to read what I wrote, there is NO UK DD there when Germany is done on it’s 1st turn. German BB takes out UK DD outside Syria, and invades Syria with 1 INF and 1 ART, this should be easy to understand, yes ?

So there is NO UK DD there, and Syria is taken by 1 German INF and 1 ART.

Now, your UK Turn. In order for bomber to attack my German BB it takes 5 spaces to get there, which means you have to land on Egypt. You are dead there when G2 turn starts. So bomber is bye bye there. The only suicide you can do is using UK FTR, but then again, Japanese fleet survives at E.Indies

@Mallery29:

You want my argurment why its bad? � Subs, subs, and more subs….UK1, 5 subs…US1 7 subs…(I’m a little overboard on it, but I have to argue the point)…last I checked, you have NO DD! � UK2 will throw all its subs and planes against your waste of money. � I hope you have a white flag with you.

Lol, so you wanna buy just subs with UK and US money ? Say bye bye to Russia pretty fast, since my strategy with Japan focuses on sending as many Japanese as possible to the mainland.

Same with Germany, it will take UK a lot of time before they reach German naval fleet outside of Syria, with 2 battleships. A DD can be bought way before they reach that point.
Germany having a fleet, gives it ability to project Artilleries and INF a LOT faster, total of 4 units.

@Mallery29:

Last I checked, CVs attack at a 1, defend at 2. � Add 2 FTRs, attack at 3, defend at 4, and you have mobile hand of God……How do you think the Pacific was won? With BBs? � CVs and SS my friend!

Lol, so when you want to buy a DD , that’s great, but when I want to buy BB which is a lot better for existing German forces, then it’s “useless”, that’s really funny.

Attacking at 1, wow, I guess a battleship is SCARED of that, Lol.  Yes, a carrier can have 2 FTR, how much do they cost? Oh, 20 IPC, same cost of the BB which can take 2 hits and attacks and defends at 4 !

@Mallery29:

A German navy built for offense will never succeed (unless you are playing bad Allies)…I can see a sub or a DD for defensive/counterattacks, but BBs are the biggest waste of money in 42 (no matter what edition you are playing)…ok, an Alaskan complex might be up there too.

Again, you are not arguing why it is a “bad” idea, you just say it’s a bad idea. A new battleship gives BOOST to a exsisting Cruiser in the Baltic Sea OR another Battleship in the Mediterranian Sea. That gives Germany 2 Battleships to attack shores with Egypt OR Syria OR Caucasus because a enemy unit can fire. The same thing if the Battleship is places in the Baltic Sea, both can fire all the time at Karelia and threaten UK all the time. A destroyer which you are suggesting, CAN’T do that and does not secure German fleet. We are talking about a difference of 8 IPC between your and mine suggestion, and I don’t think 1 Armor + 2 saved IPC for next round will do a “massive” difference on the eastern front at all, but on the Seas - a HUGE difference!