Posts made by AxisBrutality

@wittmann:

Would you move the Eastern Inf units away from Japan towards Moscow or leave them facing Japan?
I think your plan could save Uk, if Germany took the bait. Would need to see it on the board, but as Germany I would probably stick to sinking UK BB with 2Subs and 2 Fts, US TT with the 2 Subs, BB andRomanian Ft vs DD in 17, then amphibious landing against TransJ with Tank and Inf and advancing/retaking Russian gains in the East.
Would probably still buy an AC and TT for the Med and 4Inf and 2Art for Germany/Italy.
Then again I have only played once and lost! (Japanese failure to take India).

I would move everything towards Moscow, exept 4 INF in Far East, which are 2 INF on Buryatia and 2 INF on Soviet Far East. I would gather those 4 INF on Soviet Far East. It’s strange place to stack them but not if you look at what USA will do next. On US1 turn, I would land U.S FTR from Hawaiian Carrier on Soviet Far East and a bomber. The point is to make it possible to do an counter attack on US2 somewhere in one of the Chinese territories, because you would then have 2 US INF, 2 FTR and 1 Bomber. This is by far the most effective way to engage in combat where U.S. Forces can attack the Japanese in one of the Chinese territories. There is no other way to do it, than this way.

Yes, of course Germany might ignore a Russian A-Carrier but the point here is to help the UK to build itself up. Usually I’ve found out it’s easy for UK to do that if we go KJF. There is a option to build an IC on Egypt, and for the U.S. to build on Alaska in order to save India and support Russia in their Far Eastern territories while you keep big Japanese forces commited to Japan, they can’t move anywhere else if you have an IC on Alaska.

But back to the KGF which I am just suggesting here, I was considering an IC on Western Canada in order for UK to start building ships as fast as possible, but now I am trying to see if it is possible to do that even earlier.
Sure I can buy 2 INF, 2 Art for Russia instead of the Carrier but, UK will be very fast in the game if you go for the carrier.

If someone builds only a mixure of ground units with Germany as suggested, that means UK fleet survives and you can start attacking Norway and everything in nearby on UK2 and especially UK3 turn. You can already take Norway on UK2. Then U.S. is actually not needed in the Atlantic if the UK is able to complete a fleet like that so fast. U.S. can concentrate as they should, in the Pacific.

Downturn is that Russia will lose 1 FTR which cost 10, but Germany will lose Cruiser and Transport + you have slowed down 2 German units from reaching Karelia by one round because the German Transport is gone. It’s worth trying this out at least.

I mean, UK will take Norway on UK2, while Germany will put pressure on Russia on G2. Then UK can build Cruiser + 2 Transport outside London to make a bigger attack from UK3. Build 2 INF on India also. It’s interesting to try out.

@Hobbes:

bump

.  Lets do something radical or at least experimental with russia, just a suggestion, here it is: 2 FTR take on German cruiser and transport, and the German cruiser and transport sink, russia may lose 1 FTR but germany lose 19 ipc, this strategy is to help uk in a lot more complex way, although i like the safe option, just flying FTR to Egypt , and building IC on Egypt worked also. But lets try this, after 2 russian FTR take care off cruiser and transport, i am considering building 1 carrier, 1 art and 2 inf for russia OR 1 battleship, 1 art. Carrier or the battleship would be placed North of karelia. Now Uk would buy 2 carriers on London and 1 inf on India. Uk lands 2 FTR on one of the carriers. canadian destroyer and transport join the fleet. 1 FTR from USA lands on 2nd uk carrier. Now R2 turn, russian battleship or carrier with 1 russian FTR on it joins the uk fleet before G2 turn. Also there is a russian sub there from early on. So I would try to buy 1 carrier, 1 art and 2 inf for russia. Germany have 1 FTR from norway and the bomber which could threaten russian carrier with 1 FTR on it but it’s a very even game if Germany decides to attack. But then again, germany Will not have resources to take our uk battleship, 1 russian sub and the fleet outside the USA . I have to try this out, do comment what You think:)

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This strategy looks crazy enough to work actually. However… the Axis counter would be to consolidate all German units on Algeria on G2 and place the Japanese transports off on J2 FIC to threaten an amphibious landing  on either India or Egypt. Interesting… let us know if it worked.

Hi, I am back for a while. Did test this, it was very interesting, I tested it for 3 rounds, and Egypt did survive.

Basically I started of with adjusting the strategy a little bit. After Russian FTR landing on Egypt, as always, then I decided to attack East Indies fleet instead of putting it outside Syria. I won and had 1 UK FTR left.

What I did was to land 1 UK FTR from the sunk Carrier to Egypt. I had 2 INF, 1 Art, 1 Tank, 1 Russian FTR from earlier on. Now I move 1 Syrian INF to Egypt, and take another 2 INF from India with the transport to Egypt.

Now I have 5 INF, 2 FTR(1 Russian, 1 UK), 1 Tank and 1 Art. Total of 9 units on Egypt.

India = I loved Burma INF to India, and Iran INF to India, so I still had 3 INF the as in the start of the game. I built 2 Tank, 1 Art on India. IC on Egypt = Total of 31.

UK Bomber to Caucasus and 2 UK FTR from London to West Africa.

Japan suffered some heavy losses due to the fact that they lost East Indies fleet. Now India was not under that much pressure, but I moved both Japanese Transports to FIC and dumped in 4 Units, 2 INF, 1 Art, 1 Tank. And I put the rest of the fleet there too with 2 FTR on the Carrier. Japan has only 4 FTR in total right now.

I bought 2 Transports, 2 Destroyers. Now, the Japanese don’t know what U.S. is going to do next, so I sent everything towards Alaska and built IC there. U.S. Bomber went to Alaska too. U.S. Cruiser on Panama, to West U.S. Now I still had 27 IPC to spend. I bought another Battleship and Transport, placed it outside West U.S.
Already now, USA had sicker fleet than Japan, and on top of it, IC on Alaska for US2 turn. I moved 1 INF from Central U.S to West U.S. and 1 Tank from Eastern to West so that it can be transported to Alaska on US2 turn.

Now what can Germany do on G2? I followed your instruction, but G was no threat standing on Algeria, but Germany doesn’t have any other choice I think than to do so. Germany could have put all the forces available on Libya to try to attack 5 INF, 2 FTR, 1 Tank, 1 Art but it is very risky for the Germany to do so, the point is, German player can not know what UK will do after the German turn, and another fun for the allies is, Japanese player doesn’t know if U.S. is gonna build IC on Alaska, so a Japanese player usually will move as you said, all they can to FIC to pressure India or maybe Egypt.

So Germany went into Libya on G2 turn, so Germany had 6 land units there are 2 FTRs. Now the UK starts building, so I boght AAA-gun and 1 FTR on Egypt. I flew over 2 FTR from West Africa so now Egypt had AAA-gun AND 3 FTR in total. Two of the FTRs on Egypt, the UK FTR and Russian went to India, so kind of trade off, 2 goes to India while 2 from West Africa goes to Egypt.

I bought 1 FTR, 1 INF, 1 Art on India, so 15 + 17 = 32 IPC.
UK bomber landed on Egypt also.

Now India had 4 INF, 2 Tank, 3 FTR, 2 Art + AAA-gun.
Now, Japan has a huge dilemma on J2 turn, they can’t touch Egypt, because moving that fleet so far away which U.S. standing on Alaska is just not duable. Japan could attack India with 4 INF, 2 Art, 1 Tank, 4 FTR, 1 Bomber,1 Battleship, 1 Cruiser but he chances of Japan winning are 53,6% only.

Japan has to build forces now on Japan, mostly naval forces, so I bought 3 subs, 1 carrier. That is the maximum that Japan can buy, and then there are no land units or anything left to buy. I had to withdraw the fleet back to Japan, there is no other thing Japan can do, you will know why now.

U.S. will buy 2 Battleships on Alaska, and move 1 Battleship and 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport, 1 INF, 1 Tank from West to Alaska. Now you can imagine, USA has 4 Battleships, Japan has 1. USA have 2 Destroyers, 1 Sub, 1 Cruiser, 2 Transports with 3 INF + 1 Tank, 1 Carrier with 2 FTR on it, 1 Bomber on Alaska, and another 2 FTRs also there on land. Now that’s cool :)

So I played the 3rd round also, but as you can see Japan has some serious issues to think about from J2 and J3. Not fun when US2 and US3 starts. I waited with the US2, but I could have dumped in forces into Russia already and I could have attacked Japanese INF on Anwhei with 2 U.S INF, 1 FTR from Sinkiang(I moved them there on US1 +1 Russian INF following them on R2) + 1 Bomber from Alaska while dumping into Russia 2 U.S. INF to support Russian INF there. But I didn’t wanted to split the fleet so I was waiting with all this for US3 turn. Needless to Japan, a Japanese player should get some diarhea problems by US3 turn :)

Germany had problems in North Africa, so a German player has to choose to fight Egypt or to lose North Africa and concentrate on Russia. The fun part for Allies is that whether or not IC on Egypt should be built does depend on how many German FTRs are placed on G1, and where, I mean where those 5 FTR are. The less of them are on Italy, the better for UK to build IC on Egypt. And the opposite, the more German FTRs are on Italy, well, bigger chance for UK to build a fleet right away.

Now I will also test this weekend, what happens if I build a UK IC on Western Canada, then UK can drop a fleet already on UK2 turn, maybe good if we go for KGF. Have to test that out.

@Sean.C:

I’m going over the numbers again and again, and every time India seems like a money/time sink that ends up getting the allies no where.

Thoughts?  I just can’t think of any other good things to use India for.  Defending it seems like a lost cause.

Since India starts off with an IC now, India is extremely important. UK Fleet is wiped out, well most of it anyway, on G1. So UK can’t drop any naval forces outside London. There is no point in building INF, Art or Tanks on London. So the only place that can be done is India.

I would protect India. Russian FTR goes to Egypt, that’s standard in my strategy. Egypt survives which gives you 63% chance of killing Japanese fleet outside East Indies. Even if something goes wrong all the way there, I can’t see Japan standing there with more than a Battleship. So either way, 2 Japanese FTR and the Carrier will die big time even if things go wrong for the UK, but there is a 63% chance that UK will win, so 2 out of 3 times, UK wins.

After Japanese fleet being destroyed, you move 1 Art and 1 INF with your Indian transport from Egypt to India. Iran INF also to India. UK Tank from Egypt goes to Iran.  UK-Syrian INF to Egypt, so you should have 2 INF there. Buy 2 Art, 1 INF on India. That leaves you with 6 INF, 3 Art on India, and 1 UK Tank on Iran. 1 UK INF is on Burma too.

What to do with Australia, send 2 INF against New Guinea. 2 FTR from London can fly to Archangel. Now UK still has 20 IPC to buy something for, UK could buy 2 FTR on London.

Position your UK Bomber and fly it to Caucasus.

Now you have a very nice UK Force on India, and 4 FTRs between London and Archangel. Plus any addition FTRs that survive the East Indies battle, most probably 1 FTR.

Now, you need to build what I call an Allies-wall in Asia. That can only be done by the U.S. So the U.S needs to build an IC on Alaska. This is extremely important because this will never give Japan any peace to do anything what so ever, knowing that there is a huge U.S. Fleet and IC only 2 spaces from Japan and 1 space from Russia!

So do consider an IC in Alaska something like mini-UK. This is the clocest way to harrass one of the Axis countries, in this case Japan, and also the clocest part where you can support Russia at the same time. A Japanese player will never know what you will do, support Russia and dump in forces there or invade Japan or Manchuria, and therefore Japan will be denied IPCs, will be forced to build naval forces and India will fvck Japan in French-Indo-China.

Furthermore, an attack on East Indies fleet by the UK enables U.S. Forces to survive at least with 2 INF and 1 FTR in Tibet, which would be supported by 1 Russian INF also in the beginning of R1 turn.

Now you have a nice wall where U.S. can build Battleships and Bombers which will massacre most of the things Japan put’s out on 2nd and 3rd turn.  Japan will lose big time, since Japan can only build like 4-5 subs per round while the U.S. can build 2 subs on Alaska and rest Bombers on Western U.S., that leaves Japan with no ground units or anything, what so ever, and India will then crush them, there are already 10 - 11 UK units in that area by the time UK is finished with it’s UK1 turn.

@Mallery29:

AxisBrutality…you aren’t using the calculator correctly…did you forget the two AA guns? � Try that math please before you spew more frivolous stuff out here…it’s 54% in Russia’s favor…
Second, don’t send the art to Ukraine…I would use it in West Russia…yeah, you sack two tanks, but you can still take Ukraine. � But people could go the other way and keep the tank in WRUS and send the art to die in Ukraine…it really doesn’t matter, as long as you hit WRUS and Ukraine. � And is Germany really going to hit WRUS? No because the US/UK will have a fleet for Germany on turn 3, and nothing to defend itself with (considering it would lose its Air Force).

It’s obvious to me you haven’t read ANYTHING said in these threads over the last few days.

Ok, this is getting nowhere, i am not in the mood to sit here and fight and argue. I dont know sh1t according to You, fine, i am out of here. I can’t discuss with those who think They can take out e-indies with 1 fighter only, nor can i accept 1 or more German tanks running around in Afrika. Egypt and India area hold the the key to half uk income. Yes, i did forget 2 AAA, which still does not change anything i said . Ukraine Needs to go, the only differce is that stack is Now safe with 2 AAA . But that didn’t change the fact that Ukraine has to go and i can take it with 3 inf , 1 art, 3 tank and 1 fighter. 85% chance win for russia. Then You can run the calc to see how far You can Get with only 1 fighter against e-indies. Have fun, i am out of here, completely impossible to discuss, some here are more obsessed with arguing for fun instead of adjusting and being open minded like i was, sending that it is necessary to take 1 fighter from germany and save Egypt as it is also important to destroy east indies. Anyway, good Luck on taking out east indies with 1 fighter and having germans drive around whole africa.

@Mallery29:

1. Didn’t I say the BB move would fail for India?

2. You have to hit Ukraine for the WRUS stack to not be sacked by G1…so recalc that and see how that goes.

3. The FTR IS needed for Ukraine…you have to make Germany pay

4.  India will not fall if Egypt falls. Germany will send one tank to sweep around Africa in worst case scenario.

5.  Agreed that E.Indies fleet must die.

.  Yeah, i ran the calc, your stack on wrus – 6 Inf , 2 tank, 2 art. Germans win 94% chance by attacking it with 3 Inf, 2 tank, 1 bomber and 5 ftr. So basically your suggestion to stack is Even worse.  And i dont want to have ant German tanks running around in africa, and third, Kind of hard to take out the e-indies fleet with no extra ftr from Egypt, Thats the whole Point why russian ftr has to land on Egypt. Russia need to take ukraine as i said and wrus barely, because any stacking by russia Means russia is dead

@Mallery29:

Who cares about Africa now when you already have an IC in India?

I don’t for very long, we tried this like several times, I even built the F-ing 3 Battleships on India and still Japan won because of the extra FTRs, Battleship. I could hold India another round but that’s it. So basically, E-Indies has to go,or Egypt should be safe so that German can be GONE from Meditteranian pretty fast. This is important. Egypt - India has to be clear and held, these are two areas where UK can make a brutal stand, and stop the Axis until the U.S. comes through.

Once again, Russian stack of 10-11 INF, 3 Art, 4 Tank still dies if Germany wants it to die, and I am pretty sure they want that to happen.
Furthermore, if we concentrate it all on W-Russia, there is no need for 1 Russian FTR anyway. It’s not need for it when Ukraine is attacked either.

If all concentrated on W-Russia, Germany can still strike with 6 INF, 1 Art, 4 Tank, 6 FTR, 1 Bomber.

According to calc which you showed me, Germany WINS BY 81% actually, I though it was 66%. So it’s even worse than I though. Check it by your self.

Stacking all on W-Russia, means Russia is DEAD when G1 start. No Russia anymore.

Let’s say Russia only loses 1 INF before they take W-Russia. Germany still wins by almost 69% ! But 81% is most probably. Not very fun for Russia is it ?

Clearly Ukraine can’t be ignored, it has to go, and W-Russia should be taken barely, and Russian FTR to Egypt so that UK can get the job done, which is to either slaughter E-Indies by 63% chance of doing so or going Med-strategy which seems also good, will test it later in the weekend, by building IC on Egypt + consdering doing so for the U.S. on Alaska also.

UK needs to pump tanks, tanks, tanks, right away and the only way to do that is by having Egypt safe so that UK can choose - E-Indies or Med strategy. If Egypt dies on G1, then none of the options are available anymore.

A question of trade-offs. To me having the chance to doing a 66% attack on UK1 may not be worth the 82% risk of a G1 attack on West Russia.

Maybe you never have had the experience before but if the Soviets lose the West Russia stack on G1 then they are knocked out for 2-3 game rounds and an experienced Axis player should be able to conquer and hold Caucasus with Germany on rounds 2-4. with Japanese fighter assistance.

In fact, if the Soviets send their fighter to Egypt then West Russia G1 is even more attractive as a German counter.

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As I said, I am gladly open to suggestions. However, as mentioned no Russian FTR can land on W-Russia.
So what do you suggest, just taking W-Russia and concentrate it all on W-Russia, correct ? But that still gives Germany 66% to kill the WHOLE stack, Germany has the money to go for it, and yes, I know Russia will be toast then, that’s why I want to take W-Russia barely, and save 1 INF, 1 Art, 1 Tank so that I have something besides 2 FTR to conterattack with, besides those 8 INF I buy + 2 moving from Evenki to Ark and 1 INF from Novo to Moscow.

It’s not fun for the UK nor the U.S. watching Egypt die, and then Japan gets crazy and kills everything in East-Asia, 4 territories, then it’s not even the point to hold India, just give up and buy 3 FTR on London. And by J3, whole Asia and Middle East is dead, now Russia have to pour serious INF forces already on R3 to the East, they can’t afford that.

Which also means that almost no UK units are build on India, making it easier to an early Japanese push - and I’d trade that and control of Karelia (which a successful WR attack on G1 allows) for having an UK fleet.

I don’t agree you can defend Caucasus under those conditions - 4 INF and 2 FTRs are no match for 5 German ground units, plus planes, plus the Med fleet (if the Black Sea is open). Plus you’re giving up Karelia to the Germans, along with Belorussia (permanent +4 income for Germans, -4 for Soviets on round 2, and add to those values 2 from Ukraine if Caucasus falls on G1), which is definitely something you want to delay as quickly as possible, since afterwards it will be impossible to retake it for a long time.
This is the whole propose of the G1 attack on West Russia - to punch the Soviets hard and be able to use the IC on Karelia - if the Soviets don’t attack WR on R1 they are merely making it easier for the Germans to achieve those aims.

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Exactly, that’s why Russian FTR has to GO to Egypt, I mean, do you have any other suggestion? Without that FTR, Germany can attack Egypt, and both E-Indies UK strategy, and possibly Meditteranian UK strategy which I will test out this weekend, is going down the toilets. You seem to recognize how Germany and Japan get a LOT stronger if they can’t be checked between Egypt - India, I consider this actually Southern Russian Flank, which is UK’s task to defend so that Russia can concentrate on eastern front.

Either way, that Russian FTR is going down to Egypt, no matter what. UK can’t do squat without that. Germany can sabotage one excellent, possibly two excellent strategies for the UK by allowing an attack on Egypt. Can’t let that happen.

Since Russian FTRs can NOT land on W-Russia on R1 anyway, and since Germany can in theory attack any Russian stack they want, I’ve checked it on the CALC now, then I can’t see how that 1 Russian FTR can do anything good in Russia.

The only thing I see you are against is that you are not sure if Russia will win an attack in Ukraine, they will, I ran the sim on dskelly, 85% chance that Russia will win that.
If Russia just sits and waits with Russian stack on W-Russia or whatever, Germany can attack no matter what, even if you and I concentrate it all on W-Russia only, Germany still wins an attack by 66%.

At least this way, Russia knows that by taking out Ukraine, there is no immediate threat to Caucasus, Germany has 1 less FTR, and then Germany can choose if they want to attack the Russian stack on W-Russia or not. Either way, Germany can attack it as mentioned with 66% odds anyway. Nothing Russian can do about it, absolutely nothing. Just as Germany and Japan can’t do nothing when Russian FTR goes to Egypt, Egypt is safe and E-Indies fleet most likely dead for Japan.

So it’s a matter of risking your Russian stack, but as I calculated on dskelly, Russian stack is under threat ANYWAY, no matter what you do, lowest odds for Germans at 66% and up to 85% or so, and 85% is the same odds Russians have when they take out Ukraine.

Maybe W-Russia should only be taken BARELY, so that there is no Russian stack there for Germany to attack, saving 1 Tank for Russia and rather lose 1 or 2 extra INF.

W-Russia can be attacked with let’s say 8 INF, 1 Art. That should do the trick. Originally I have 9 INF + 3 INF on Caucasus which take care of Ukraine. So I can use 8 INF, 1 Art and will lose 4 to 5 INF or so. So I have 1 extra Art + 1 Tank “saved”. So it’s up to Germany if they want to attack 4 INF with 1 Art. But at least it’s not a stack.

To sum it up = Attacking Ukraine = 85% Russia win
To sum it up = Attacking W-Russia “barely” - 8 INF, 1 Art = 89% Russia win , 1 INF, 1 Art and 1 Tank saved.

@Hobbes:

@AxisBrutality:

Let’s introduce option 5) which is an extention of option 4) Take West Russia and Ukraine AND send FTR to Egypt. This is the best thing Russia can do.

Ukraine can be attacked with 3 INF, 1 Art, 3 Tank, 1 FTR, that should be more than enough to take it.
With this attack there is 85,6% chance according to calc, that Russia will win this, and have at least FTR alive, most probably 1 Tank taking Ukraine. Basically Russia has to sacrifice 1 more tank than usual in order to ensure that UK can have a lot of fun and great options which will help also Russia.

Already considered that option but you need both FTRs. To attack WR under the WR+UKR scenario you have these options:

• 9 INF, 2 ART, 2 ARM or 9 INF, 2 ART, 1 ARM to West Russia
• 3 INF, 1 ART, 2 ARM, 2 FTR or 3 INF, 1 ART, 3 ARM, 1 FTR or 3 INF, 1 ART, 3 ARM, 2 FTR to Ukraine

The problem with sending 3 ARM to Ukraine (which come during the calculations) is that West Russia can quite easily be vulnerable to a G1 attack. An average of 3 Soviet INF lost while taking WR means that Germany can attack WR on G1 with everything at its range and try to kill the Soviet stack (at a big price for the Luftwaffe but this move completely devastates the Soviets) with 82% odds on regular dice, 100% if playing low luck.
If want to send the Moscow FTR to Egypt, then you have to attack Ukraine with 3 ARM and pray… first that you take Ukraine (80% odds), then that you don’t lose more than 2 INF on the WR attack…

A counter attack against Russians on W-Russia can only be done with with 3 German INF, 2 Tank, 4 FTR and 1 Bomber.  Russians should have 6 or 7 INF, 2 Art, 1 Tank. German force is stronger but Germany has a low INF-shield, half of it’s attack are planes.

Now, if you go all out on Russia in W-Russia, only 1 FTR with 1 Bomber can threaten potential UK Fleet outside London. Since UK DD and Transport survives after G1, 2 Carriers stacked with 2 UK FTRs and 1 US FTR, again might get a green light, because most of the German FTRs, has to land on Belorussia, Baltic States or Poland, which makes UK Fleet beyond range of attack on G2.

That’s one thing. Second thing is that Russia could attack Ukraine and Belorussia, and isolate W-Russia as I suggested. Then no Russian stack can be threatened what so ever. Russia will have 5 INF on Moscow with 1 Art, 1 Tank. Then Russia can buy 8 more INF, so basically, Germans in W-Russia can’t do much against Moscow or Caucasus for that matter, and Leningrad is under pressure anyway, so it doesn’t matter if 3 German INF invades Leningrad from Belorussia or W-Russia. I’ll also block Arkhangel with 2 Russian INF from Evenki, I can take 1 INF from Moscow, and make that 3 INF on Arkhangel. So basically, the shield will be complete and Russian FTR from Moscow, can freely fly to Egypt.

Send the India fleet to the Med and try it out….your best way to protect the investment would be that move. � I’d probably just go inf/art/tank in India to save the 3 if you went that route (and take New Guinea as well). � This way UK2 you can drop 2tanks in Egypt, inf/art/tank India, FTR UK. � Just have the US put lots of pressure on Japan to prevent your ICs from getting backdoored.  UK2 I’d have the UK FTRs and Egypt FTRs go back to India to prevent an Indian crush…this could lead to Japan taking Egypt…I’d try it once, but the more I think about this…it’s scary for both sides.

Yes, I’ll try it out this weekend. Fleet to Med is good suggestion and with IC on Egypt, that will give Germany some nightmare scenarios. It’s a good build-up suggestion too. I was thinking of 5 tanks - 2 on Egypt and 3 on India on UK2, but I can try also what you suggested. FTRs can always fly to India to protect India before J2, so I can’t see Japan taking India on J2 anyway. By UK3, all Germans in Northern Africa will be dead unless Germany wants to fight there and that means less pressure on Russia.  The faster I can clear Northern Africa of Germany, the faster can India be re-inforced with units from Egypt. Those 2 FTR from London could also land on India or Egypt on UK2, and I could move 2-3 FTR from Egypt to India, so they kind of trade off. There is an alternative route 2 UK FTR can fly, if not Archangel then West Africa.

I would love to put pressure with the U.S. on Japan in this scenario since Japan is more “free” since we are focusing on Med-strategy here. Then Alaska IC seems tempting, only 2 spaces from Japan. I would not need Alaska IC if we go our regular “take out E-Indies and build tanks on India strategy” which is great strategy, but if we go Med-strategy, then I think Alaska pressure on Japan would be good, since Japan can not take India on J2, and at the same time, Japan would have to worry about 2 battleships or something being placed on Alaska on US2, which makes Japan think very hard on what they can do on J3, because USA will have some sick fleet on US3 to strike with from Alaska.

4. West Russia and Ukraine - no FTR to Egypt but Caucasus remains in Soviet possession

Now, the question is, which one of the first four to choose? Send the fighter to Egypt and most likely Germany will take Caucasus or/and stack Ukraine on G1, giving her 4 IPC and forcing the Soviets to abandon Karelia… decisions, decisions…

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Let’s introduce option 5) which is an extention of option 4) Take West Russia and Ukraine AND send FTR to Egypt. This is the best thing Russia can do.

Ukraine can be attacked with 3 INF, 1 Art, 3 Tank, 1 FTR, that should be more than enough to take it.
With this attack there is 85,6% chance according to calc, that Russia will win this, and have at least FTR alive, most probably 1 Tank taking Ukraine. Basically Russia has to sacrifice 1 more tank than usual in order to ensure that UK can have a lot of fun and great options which will help also Russia.

@Hobbes:

Just finished all the calculations for the possible R1 attacks and combat results and then use them to calculate a possible G1 counterattack on West Russia (why WRus? check this:http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=25203.0).

The Soviets have 4 ‘safe’ openings for R1, listed in an order of risk of a German WRus counter, assuming average losses while conquering WRus (2-3 INF)

1. West Russia
2. West Russia and Belorussia
3. West Russia and Baltic States

• With these 3 options Caucasus may fall to the Germans on G1 but the Soviets can send the Moscow FTR to Egypt

4. West Russia and Ukraine - no FTR to Egypt but Caucasus remains in Soviet possession

And there’s also the ‘risk’ openings. With those the odds are either low or WRus falls on G1:
5) West Russia, Ukraine and Belorussia (65% odds of all 3 attacks succeeding)
6) West Russia and Finland (West Russia will be crushed on G1)
7) West Russia and any other two territories other than Ukraine and Belorussia. (low odds of all attacks winning, WRus G1 crush)
8) Not attacking West Russia

Now, the question is, which one of the first four to choose? Send the fighter to Egypt and most likely Germany will take Caucasus or/and stack Ukraine on G1, giving her 4 IPC and forcing the Soviets to abandon Karelia… decisions, decisions…

Let’s introduce option 5) which is an extention of option 4) Take West Russia and Ukraine AND send FTR to Egypt. This is the best thing Russia can do.

Ukraine can be attacked with 3 INF, 1 Art, 3 Tank, 1 FTR, that should be more than enough to take it.
With this attack there is 85,6% chance according to calc, that Russia will win this, and have at least FTR alive, most probably 1 Tank taking Ukraine. Basically Russia has to sacrifice 1 more tank than usual in order to ensure that UK can have a lot of fun and great options which will help also Russia.

Now imagine this, UK player suddently pops up a UK IC on Egypt, lol, that would be fun:) + bying 2 Armor, 1 Art for India = 31 IPC. UK can have 3 INF, 1 Art, 1 Tank, 2 FTR defending that IC. � Would be fun to test that, but it only works if German player doesn’t know you plan something like this.

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Actually 3 FTR, forgot the Russian FTR. So 3 INF, 1 Art, 1 Tank, 3 FTR defending a possible UK IC. It is very difficult for Germany to position enough forces that can prevent a UK IC on Egypt. This is actually the only way for UK to produce units without having to save cash for several rounds. UK can on UK2 buy 2 Armor on Egypt so it’s a brutal force right there.

@Mallery29:

why would you cripple Indian defenses to save Egypt? � You have to make up your mind on that…either Egypt gets the D, or India does, you can’t have it both ways. � By attacking Libya you:
1. Open yourself to Sealion
2. Open yourself to the India crush.

one of those scenarios is bad…having both happen is game over. � Go after Libya and you will set yourself back. � It’s good thinking, but I think Libya/Africa doesn’t have to be so much of a priority now with India having the IC from the start…on 42.1, yeah, Africa was important for the Allies…but the Pacific has so greatly changed that I think this is more balanced than 42.1, which is cool…but we’ll continue to see how that “balance” plays out over time…I just expect to see a hell of a lot more KJF.

I don’t disagree, I like much more saving Egypt so that UK can reinforce India and destroy the E-Indies fleet of course. Now we are just discussing about Med-option, what can be done there. I would not take any units from India, just Iran INF + Syria to support Egypt.

I know this is radical, but imagine this. German player knows he can’t take Egypt on G1, since Russian FTR is there. Ok, so the German player puts German FTRs, where, most probably 50/50 Ukraine and France or most of it on France. Not many go to Libya anyway.

Now imagine this, UK player suddently pops up a UK IC on Egypt, lol, that would be fun:) + bying 2 Armor, 1 Art for India = 31 IPC. UK can have 3 INF, 1 Art, 1 Tank, 2 FTR defending that IC.  Would be fun to test that, but it only works if German player doesn’t know you plan something like this.

@Mallery29:

You said you would take out U.S ships on G1. That also allows UK to dump 1 Tank in Morocco on UK1.

a 3 vs 2? � I’ll take those odds…plus I get to sack the UK trans? cool. � Better than US dropping 4 guys in Morocco (I’d still get to sack the transports though…which is cool too.)

Axis don’t need Africa to win (it helps only if you don’t have to waste resources…that’s what Russian lands are for.

You said yourself that a UK DD can’t do much alone so why not use that Transport for something + UK DD can attack German Subs outside Eastern U.S. So UK DD does something, it can attack + UK Transport does something also, taking or attacking Morocco if you didn’t move your 1 German INF from there.  
Another option is to attack Norway if Germany has moved those 2 INF towards Finland. If not, then good for Russia.

@Mallery29:

If your UK FTR survives, send it to India…don’t buy a fleet that is destined to die.  Some combo of inf/art/tank/FTR in India is a great investment on UK1 and 2.  With reinforcements from Burma, Aus, Persia and possibly Syria depending on the Egypt conundrum, your UK1/2 buys should stack India (US FTR, possibly FTR from UK, UK bomber in Caucus for flex attacks East or West).  Japan will have a hard time competing with a Indian builds while trying to face the US fleet.

Have your Allies gone KJF or KGF?  If you can kill the 2FTR at E.Indies (even if your fleet is wiped out), the odds of saving India greatly increase.  You can instantly stalemate India, and begin saving cash on UK1/2/3 for fleet drop on UK3/4 in Atlantic.

I like the Med path too, would like to know how that goes for UK and the allies.

In theory at least, by saving Egypt with Russian FTR, puts pressure on Germany on Libya. Germany would have to have 6 units there or 4 units + 2 FTR in order to be safe from a counter attack from UK which can bring in 1 INF, 1 Art, 1 Tank, 1 Bomber, 2 FTRs. And then re-inforce Egypt with 1 INF from Syria + 1 INF from Iran which a Transport from India can bring over to Egypt right away.

You said you would take out U.S ships on G1. That also allows UK to dump 1 Tank in Morocco on UK1.

@miamiumike:

During the first two plays, it seemed obvious that UK should throw everything at the fleet off E. Indies - it is about a 60% win chance. However, both games ended in Allied losses - so I am left to wonder, maybe that isn’t the best use of the fleet after all.

The problem is that if it goes as expected, you might have one plane left - no ships to protect whatever transports you have out there. Maybe not a huge problem. If the battle goes against you though (as it did in one game), I think UK is in a lot of trouble.

What is difficult is making that first purchase for UK in India. If I knew my attack would work, buying a carrier and dd would make sense. You can land your surviving fighter on it, and if you position the Russian fighter, you can land it too - at least for one turn. Then, on turn 2, you could add to that fleet - I don’t think Japan could get through a 5-6 unit fleet AND have enough to take India as well? I do not have the numbers in front of me…

MM

That was extreme unluck. The calculator says 62,1% chance of winning for the UK. 32,7% for Japan. So UK should win 2 out of 3 times. So that should be solid choice.
The only other way is to run away with the UK fleet, or to merge it at SZ30, but still, Japan gets to strong, and they knock out everything in China on J1, can’t allow that wall to die there right away, and India will be massively under pressure. So I feel that E-Indies fleet has to go. UK also have an option on taking Borneo with 4 IPC while we are at it, but India loses 2 INF then.

@adaptation:

Sinking German BB TRN is a very solid move if you kept egypt. This pretty much secures Africa which is a major point.

Attacking the Japanese BB,CV,2FTR is NEVER a good move without the egypt fighter and even that isn’t that great

Sending both the australian fleet and indian fleet on the japanese fleet gives this:

2Cruiser,1FTR,1AC,1sub,2trans (12 in attack value) vs 1BB,1AC,2FTR(15 attack value).

While the 2 transport can take some damage, it is still not worth it. With the egypt fighter, its 15 vs 15(in rolling value), but at least you get to absorb two shots with your transports. However you leave egypt empty(and the german fleet intact).
While you can always attempt to take out the egyptian fleet with your cruiser in sz14(south of france) and your UK bomber(fairly risky). Then again, you still have egypt with only 1 infantry(you move the transjordan inf to egypt).

All of this is assuming Germany tried and failed a G1 Egypt attack. If they stacked up for a G2 attack, the whole thing takes a different turn(which i won’t get into here).

Back to the pacific fleet - If Germany gets egypt, most of the time you should try to get it back using your transport and fighter from india. Fighter(from india)+UK bomber+Cruiser in sz14 can take out German fleet.

The rest of the fleet, as boring as it seems, should stack up in sea zone 30(the seazone where the indian and australian fleet can meet, near Antarctica!). From there the play defense and try to drop on Japanese Islands or go towards the med, depends on what Japan does, as well as the US plan.

Hi,
Well, you can’t sink German BB since UK Cruiser on Gibraltar will be dead, most likely attacked by 3 German FTRs. And if Germany goes to Egypt, then UK DD outside Syria is finished too, so basically UK will have 1 Bomber and 1 FTR to attack the German BB with, and that’s not a good idea.

That’s why Russian FTR from Moscow need to go to Egypt on R1, so you don’t need to think of these problems German can cause:)

Yes, UK can gather their fleet on SZ30, I argued for that earlier, however it seems it’s better to kill the E-Indies fleet, because Japan gets totaly crazy if that fleet survives, so it really has to go + a land attack combination by the UK which I mentioned in Russia opening move thread will also work a lot better to put pressure on FIC.

Also there is another option, if you really want to take a valuable island from Japan, then take the one that gives you 4 IPC, which is E-Indies. Trust that your UK Fleet - 2 FTR, Carrier, Submarine, 2 Cruisers will take out Japanese fleet, and then land 4 UK INF to attack 2 Japanese INF. 2 UK INF from India and 2 UK INF from Australia.  That would weaken a little bit my land combination attack by 2 UK INF, but, it’s a good alternative.

@Hobbes:

@AxisBrutality:

1. I looks like just taking W.Russia or W.Russia and Ukraine is the safest bet. Although that Moscow FTR need to go to Egypt, in order to be 100% sure that Germany can’t do anything in Egypt, which helps the UK being able to attack the E.Indies fleet. I think it’s a key unit Russia has to “reserve” for the UK on R1 and land back on Moscow or Caucasus on R2. Or else Germany can be tempted to attack Egypt without that Russian FTR and then, UK won’t be able to do anything with E.Indies with just on UK FTR on India, so UK needs both FTR from India and Egypt.

The advantage of preventing Germany of going after Egypt is pretty obvious but at the same time…

1. Germany has only 75% odds of winning Egypt - roughly 1 on every four times it will fail and UK will sink the German fleet.
2. UK only has 64% odds of winning SZ37, or two in three, so this attack is a more riskier than the German one and it basically leaves Africa to the Germans and the Japanese transport on SZ61 left alone.Â
3. If Germany attacks Egypt then the UK can at least counter it once and destroy the German armor left there.
4. If Germany does not attack Egypt then most likely it will create a stack on Libya to pressure Egypt on G2 - and with no UK fleet on the Indian Ocean and a KJF in progress that means that it will be impossible to reinforce Africa from the Germans.
5. Which may not be a bad thing since it will divert units from the Russian front but at the expense of the UK’s income dropping and Germany turning into a monster.

See? I’m not entirely convinced of the necessity of Soviet FTR on Egypt… (plus it takes it away from the Russian front) or at least the game can be more interesting without it there.

Nasty. Question is, who does Russia defend from Germany?

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I see your point regarding German odds at taking Egypt, but I’ve seen that Japan is pretty sick like hell if that E-Indies fleet is not taken out. That extra BB, Carrier and 2 FTR are brutal and enables Japan to strike all 3 U.S. territories in China, and I don’t like that. I’ve played it out twice, and each time Japan destroys everything in Asia if the E-Indies fleet survives.

On the other hand, if we destroy the E-Indies fleet + go for a ground combination as I mentioned, then Japan will have problems with FIC which would be under constant threat. USA can on US2 choose to take Phil or Borneo, + US forces do survive in Tibet, 2 INF + FTR, so at least US has some forces there, which 1 or 2 Russian INF can support, making a wall on either Tibet or Sinkiang. It’s a nice extra force + 5 Russian INF further north-east + India building forces.

I chose to build 1 FTR on London, rest which is 3 Tanks on India. Saved 3 IPC. I would take New Guinea with 2 Australian INF, so UK should have 35 IPC to buy for on UK2. On UK2 and definitely on UK3, UK needs a fleet, which can survive, extremely important, they should be supported by U.S ships built on Eastern US. That US fleet in the Pacific will already give Japan enough nightmare that USA can pretty much built most of the forces on Eastern U.S.

So Russia has to hold for 2 rounds at least, it should not be a problem, London can send 2 FTRs over to Arkangel to support Russians.
And bomber goes to Caucasus on UK1. And since UK will build tanks and other units on India, it’s easy to strike back on Syria if any Germans land there or to support Caucasus if really critical.

I don’t know if you attack U.S. ships on eastern U.S on G1, because if you do, then UK ships on Eastern Canada survives. Either way, U.S or UK ships will survive. UK can send to Morocco 1 Tank or U.S. can dump in 4 units on Western Africa.