Posts made by axis_roll

@vodot said in [Various] The Colonial Outpost (an enhanced Allied IC bid):

The four setups I want to evaluate for this rule are 42.2, 42.2TR, Anniversary '41, and Anniversary '42. For starters, for each of these setups, I want to look at a few obvious destinations for the OC (India, Australia, Egypt, SA, Hawaii, and SFE), and for each examine the strongest possible Axis response on turns 1-5, compared to Allied reinforcement potential. The result will be a table I’ll post below as I test. You veterans, are there other locations you think are worth checking for the first round of tests?

I can only speak strongly of AA50-41, that is what we mostly play.
Two others on your list might be a USA colonial outpost in brazil. Also, If russian were going to pressure Japan, I think a bryatia IC might be better than the SFE listed. USA can support with fighters off SZ56 based carriers.
BRY is more positionally valued than SFE.

Other comments on current list (ordered in highest to least valuable):
India. Best all around, will need initial help from russia to sustain
Egypt. Can you hold it round 1? if so, very key as well
South Africa. Good, solid way to fight the Africa Korps and hold onto UK IPCs. Will the axis commit that much to africa?
Australia. To use most effectively, USA needs a fleet to back up small UK navy that would help to take back UK islands
Hawaii. Don’t see too much advantage to a 2-unit producing 1 sea zone forward naval base.
Soviet Far East. might be acceptable since farther away from Japan mainland

@Argothair "Well, accurately interpreting comments on the Internet is hard! "

HA! true dat. These are your proposals and you should have the final say once you consider other comments/perspectives. I have no problem with different NO’s having different values, that is the beauty of the construct, it’s flexibility!

Once a better finalized list has been generated, I do want to kick the tires on these NO’s via a game. Probably after Christmas time I should have some time to start that. Not to stray too far off topic, but do you envision these being the only changes to the OOB rules? E.G. No bid needed. Tech off too? (ugh to non-directed tech). Dice average

@Argothair "For example, on turn 3, if the USA is playing with average skill and average luck, how many IPCs of NOs should they be earning if they go heavy into Europe? heavy into the Pacific? balanced in both theaters? "

I agree with having the USA be balanced, I thought I answered your “How many IPCs…?” with my post that tried to summarize the fluid NO list. (easily +$20, so $60 IPCs !)

There is only 2 NOs for ATO for USA. Much more in the Pacific (which is what is needed/wanted). We’re going to have to play some games with some initial figures to see if we’re heading in the right direction or we will {continue to} go in circles.
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One last thought, You don’t want to necessarily <overly> reward what would be a typical good move. For example, the Allies almost always conduct the Operation Torch landings into Africa, but USA is getting $5 for doing this solid move.

Above list was a combination of OP and best thoughts (IMHO) from thread.
Couple of points/questions in above list.

Other points: That’s allot of USA bonus money, Could be easily at +$20 round 2 ($60 USA IPCs!) , going forward… plus an attainable $10 more if full effort against Japan. May need to lower some of the pacific NOs to $3

GERMANY
• 5 IPCs if Axis Axis control 2+ of NW Europe, Norway, and Finland; and no Allied warships in SZ 6
• 5 IPCs if Axis control 2+ of: Karelia, Ukraine, Caucasus
• 5 IPCs if Axis control 2+ of: Archangel, Moscow, and Kazakh
RUSSIA
• 3 IPCs if Allies control Archangel and no Axis ships in SZ 3 or 4
• 3 IPCs if Allies control Persia and Caucasus, and no Axis ships in SZ 34
• 3 IPCs if Allies control Soviet Far East and Yakutsk, and no Axis ships in SZ 63
JAPAN
• 5 IPCs if Axis control 4+ of Iwo Jima, Carolines, Alaska, Midway, Hawaiian Islands, Wake Island, Solomons
• 5 IPCs if Axis Powers control at least one of the following territories: India, Australia, New Zealand and/or Western USA.
• 5 IPCs if Axis control Manchuria, Kiangsu, Fukien, Kwantung, and French Indochina/Thailand
• 5 IPCs if Axis control Borneo and/or East Indies, and no Allied subs anywhere in SZ 49, 50, 60, 61, or 62
why subs? What about ANY ship?

UK
• 3 IPCs if Allies control E. Canada and Iceland and there are no Axis ships in SZ 1, 2, 7, 8, or 9.
• 3 IPCs if Allies control Gibraltar and Egypt and there are no Axis ships in SZ 13, 14, or 15
Hard to attain, s/b 5 IPC
• 3 IPCs if UK has at least one land unit in Italy and/or the Balkans.
s/b $5
• 5 IPCs if Allies control India, French Indochina, and Kwangtung.
Not going to happen, Kwangtung very hard to be in Allied hands on UK’s turn
• 5 IPCs if Allies control Australia, New Zealand, and New Guinea.
ITALY
• 5 IPCs if Axis control Morocco and Libya and there are no Allied ships in SZ 13, 14, or 15
• 5 IPCs if Axis control 2+ of: Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Persia, Caucasus
USA
• 5 IPCs if Allies control Midway, Hawaii, Alaska and Western USA.
• 5 IPCs if Allies control Australia, Solomons, Hawaii, Western USA
• 5 IPCs if Allies control 3+ of Japanese Islands: Formosa, Okinawa, Iwo Jima, Carolines
• 5 IPCs if Allies control Philippines
• 5 IPCs if Allies control Mexico, Cuba, Panama, Brazil and Greenland.
• 5 IPCs if Allies control Morocco and Libya and USA has land units in Morocco or Libya
• 5 IPCs if Allies control France and USA has land units in France or NW Europe
CHINA
• +1 Chinese artillery for any Chinese-owned territory if Allies control India, Burma, and Yunnan
• Sikang starts the game with 1 infantry, 1 fighter. Yunnan starts with (only) 2 infantry.
• Chinese troops may move into Burma, French Indochina, and/or Kwangtung.

I like this idea allot. I think your secondary ideas (bullets 1 thru 4) are good starting additonal thoughts at this point until you’ve tried to play a few games with the initial ideas/concept to see if the Colonial Outpost is too strong for the Allies or not enough help for the Allies.

I surmise that just the CO might not be enough for the allies, though.

So to your point about the CO as part of a bid, I propose that the side that has the advantage (in AA50, the Axis) bid progressively larger amounts to give the weaker side (Allies in AA50) to have the ‘stronger’ side. For example, I will take the Axis and give the Allies $10 (in bid units or IPCs). Opposing player may believe he can still win with the Axis giving up more than $10 IPCs, so he says he will take the Axis and give the Allies $15 (in bid units or IPCs). This goes back and forth until the Allied play accepts the extra units.

Instead of starting at $1 IPC and bidding higher, the starting bid for the Axis is the Colonial Outpost (as described aboove). Now the opposing player can bid for the Axis giving the CO + $3 IPCs… on so on.

So, should standard bid placement restrictions would be in play (like 1 unit per TT?) I believe you should be able to put one unit with the CO complex.

@SS-GEN Thanks for your reply and the invite. Our gaming group already has a game planned for the 23rd, so we’ll have to choose another future date. Wanted to get a copy of our house rules out to other players so they can read them and come up with any questions they may have. I didn’t want to send unexpected documents to someone as they would probably think it might be spam or worse!

Are you still interested in finding new Chicago players? We have a group that play the AA50-41 game, our own house rules, called “The Chicago Rules”. We’ve been developing these for several years. I can shoot you the documents if you are interested. Then you can take a look at them, and then let me know if you might be interested in trying them out either on your own or in a game with my playing group.

good gaming!
axis_roll

@Argothair Apologies for not replying as I had hoped. Our gaming group had such a good game ongoing, we never really got to talk about your proposed changes.

Also I have been way too busy to give this the level of thought that I wished. Perhaps in the upcoming time frame before Christmas.

@Argothair said in Balanced Mod [Anniversary 41]:

5 IPCs if Axis control Norway and NW Europe and there is at least 1 Axis ship in SZ 5 or 6

I will post this one thought, since I usually play Germany, this seems like a very difficult NA to achieve.

How about something like this?

5 IPCs if Axis control either {Norway or Finland} and NW Europe
and
least 1 Axis ship in SZ 5 or SZ6 ~or~ no allied ships in SZ5 or SZ6

With the holidays, it’s a busy week to give this some serious thought. My gaming group meets for a black Friday game every year. I will print out the latest of your thoughts here and we will talk about your ideas. I hope to offer some feedback here before the weekend is up, but no promises.

Happy Thanksgiving!

I guess I was looking at how much the allies can make, somewhat easily IMHO, in Europe. When they do this, they will also be eliminating the Axis NOs. Of course, this is just my initial take on a single read basis, and I figured you’ve put some thought into this more than I have, so I am probably missing some points (as you indicate). I need to think further about this before more commenting, and yes, game play is the only way to truly see how good ANY rule modification(s) is/are.

Things I haven’t thought about: No allied bid. Surely that will affect things early. Not being a big fan of the OOB tech, I would prefer no tech here, but do you have a preference. Some house rules are better when techs are in play, some are worse…

Crush Germany! There’s not many/enough incentives for a Pacific war for USA (or UK, for that matter).
Question: a “Ship” is anything that floats? In other words, doesn’t have to be a surface vessel… subs and transports are considered to be ships in your rules.

Wow, you’ve dug up an 11 year old thread.  I might have some rules documents if you send me your email (via PM if you prefer some privacy).

No promises, but I should have something on my home computer.

@s.farresque:

Hi,
I too have been searching for answers but in a simple sub vs. sub context. Manual, pg 18,“Step 2, General Combat…both attacking and defending submarines can choose to either make a Surprise Strike or Submerge…”,pg 30,“Submarines, Special Abilities, Submersible:…The decision is made before any dice are rolled by either side (the attacker decides first) and takes effect immediately.”, this is reasserted on pg 4 of the March 2009 FAQ, “Submarines Q. Exactly when is the decision made whether or not to submerge submarines? A. The decision whether to submerge submarines is made before any dice are rolled by either side in an exchange of fire , and the subs submerge immediately. The attacker decides before the defender.”. “Decides” does not equate to “attacks”.
BGG Axis and Allies Anniversary Edition, Forum, Rules, Sept, 2009, “Can a submarine ever be attacked without a destroyer present because of the ability to submerge first”. Kevin Chapman ( Patron) answers,“…so a sub can only attack another sub if the defender chooses to fight (or there is an attacking destroyer)”.
BGG (as above), in " subs vs other naval units", has other useful comments by Kevin Chapman and Don Moody on this subject.
I like the imagery of this implementation. A lone sub,or two causing isolated mayhem before sinking into the depths or just driving for their pens, until, at the slightest indication of an attack,“Dive, dive dive”. What is wrong with that…until a destroyer turns them from buccaneers of the sea into desperate survivors hoping only to escape!.
Cheers.

Was there a question in there somewhere?  You initially said you were searching for answers but never really asked any question(s).  Just trying to end your search for answers

@maverick_76:

One thing that I think can level the game is if the allies can invest in tech and hopefully get it early in the game. Heavy bombers especially can devastate the Germans if the UK or USA can get that.

Yahtzee!

Sure, this is a good way to win with OOB rules.  However, you may win by the dice or die by the dice… rolling 4+ dice for ones (as in Germanys AAA flak shots at your bombing runs) has an inherent great variability in the results.

Germany could try for increased factory tech to offset your bombing run, so there is that counter o an allied bombing strategy (albeit not a very strong counter)

@slo:

how do you keep track of the NO’s, and how do you keep track of the income from them, do you include it on the IPC chart?

In the 1941 setup for example, the USA gets 40 ipc….they also have automatically completed a NO bye controlling the usa…so would you mark 40 or 45 om the ipc chart?

The IPC chart is a tool to help determine one’s IPCs they will collect at the end of their turn.  These are always in play (part of the base rules).  National Objectives are an optional rule, and are not tracked via the IPC chart.  You simply determine which NO bonus you have achieved and add those extra IPCs to your IPCs from the chart to get your IPCs awarded/collected at turns end.  Add this to whatever unspent IPCs that you have remaining, and now you know your total you can spend the next turn.

Agree with Maverick, as the National Objectives are easier to obtain for the Axis and harder for the Allies to maintain/achieve.

My play group modifies the bonus from 5 IPCs to 4 IPCs to minimize the difference/impact

Huh, Argothair… no mention of the German Afrika Korps?  :mrgreen:

:wink:

You either defend the Scandinavian countries or bail as much as possible from them, using those units elsewhere.  There is more reward with less units in Africa, and Italy then gets help with her income if the two European Axis powers make a strong effort to get Africa as quickly as possible.

As Germany I like to give UK many opportunity costs, especially the first round or two.  With a limited initial navy (much should be sunk by Germany on turn 1), UK can’t venture too far from the home waters, at least turn 1.

A strong German play is many infantry in early buys.  Establish Fortress Europe while pushing into Africa for more IPCs.  This helps to stop the UK from taking whatever it will (at least not easily) while taking income from UK and putting that into German coffers.