Captain Walker… This is the Spring '42 (first edition) forum. Factories (in this edition) do not have built in AA defenses (although many start with an AA gun in the territory). AA guns also defend against enemy fighters/bombers participating in conventional conflict.
I believe you are thinking of a different edition of the game.
The only unit that defends against an SBR is an AA gun. If you have an AA gun, you get one roll (per bomber doing an SBR run). If you roll a “1”, you kill the bomber and take no damage. Roll anything else (or if you have no AA gun whatsoever), and the bomber(s) do 1d6 damage (per surviving bomber) (capped at 2x the IPC value of the territory).
So, of course, Italy is part of the game insomuch as “Southern Europe” is a starting German territory complete with an industrial complex and a VC (Rome). But I read your question to mean, “Why isn’t Italy a seperate power, to give the Axis 3 seperate powers (Germany, Italy, Japan) just like the Allies?”
The short answer is that the game is designed and balanced around a 3/2 Allies/Axis dynamic. Adding Italy as a seperate power would increase the complexity of the game beyond what the Classic/Revised/Spring '42 is designed to be. (Other series, notably Global 50, do use Italty as a seperate power.) Further, the balance of the game would have to be significantly readjusted. For the most part, the Axis benefits by having their forces only divided into two powers instead of three.
I’m not sure a historical reaon would be persuasive, as (obvioulsy) the game is not a particularly accurate representation of World War II, but rather a game, simplified and balanced so all sides can have fun and a chance to win. But if a historical reason suits you, how’s this? The Italian contribution to the Axis in World War II was extremely small, and arguably even counter productive. The Italians had to be reinforced by German formations in Africa, Greece, and even in the invasion of Italy itself. It can be argued that the Vichy French government provided more effective support to the Axis than the Italians did.
During World War II, the German general staff had a running joke that went something like this:
One morning, a German staff office ran into Hitler’s bedroom, and woke the Fuhrer with important news. “Mein Fuhrer, Mein Fuhrer, the Italians have entered the war!â€
Hitler, non-pulsed, replied, “Send two divisions, that should be more than enough to crush them.â€
The aide responded, “No, Mein Fuhrer, you do not understand. The Italians have joined the war on our side!â€
At this, Hitler became panicked. “Send ten divisions immediately!â€
Source: Inferno by Max Hastings
A standard R1 attack on Ukraine/West Russia will typically see 2 or 3 tanks, 1 or 2 fighters, 3 inf, and 1 art attack Ukraine, with all other available units hitting West Russia (maybe one staying back to prevent a blitz through Karelia).
Under what circumstances, if any, would you withdraw from Ukraine voluntarily? (Meaning, you’re not losing the battle due to dice, you’re winning but pulling back to save your pieces.) In a recent game, I got a nice first turn in Ukraine, killing eveything except the German Fighter, and losing 2 infantry. I hate letting the German fighter live, but decided to pull back to save my armor. Right decision or no?
This is R1, so there’s not too many variables at play. Build was 3 inf, 3 arm on R1. (I did the West Russia battle 2nd, so didn’t know the outcome at the time.)
I’ll throw my .02 in…
That game room looks amazing. It makes me want to come over to your house and play A&A. Great job!
I’ve played against two in the last month or so.
Game 1 -
R1 went badly - I had to retreat from Ukraine with the German fig still alive, and I took higher than usual casualties in WR. G1 took out of the British BB in SZ2, and pretty much otherwise threw everything else (including the Med fleet) against the Russians, with slightly better than average dice.
On UK1 I built 3 figs, figuring that would be enough to (A) check against any Sealion and (B) take out the German Baltic fleet on UK2. I took out the German Med Fleet with the UK med destroyer, the fig from Egypt, and the UK Bomber. I decided to gamble on FIC with the Indian garrison, and got very good dice. J1 was subpar, he took China, but with heavy casualties, and though he went somewhat heavy into pearl, he took several casualties, and was left with a bb, cv, and 1 fig there.
It was at this point that my brain literally fell out of my ass, and I said, “Let’s go KJF!” (But only with the US!) Long story/short, the US only KJF was doing okay, but slower than it needed to be. Germany continued to spend most of its income on reinforcing the med fleet (bbs, more cvs, more destroyers, etc…), while the UK continued to build build build an airforce in the UK. It took longer than anticipated to get a strong enough airforce with the UK to take down the German fleet. When I finally got 80% odds, I went, and got horrible dice, and had to retreat after the first round. Meanwhile, thanks to the R1/G1 results, Germany is pressing Russia. Germany is sending all of its starting troops, plus a few scattered ground buys East. Even though Europe is largely ungarrisoned, the allies can’t do anything about it, because the US is ignoring the European theater, and the UK can’t put a fleet down, allowing Germany to maintain a very healthy income. Japan is slowly getting locked out of the islands by the US, but has overcome mainland Asian resistance, and started pressuring Russia. Eventually Russia falls. I feel like this is one of my worst losses in 1942.
Game 2 - R1 goes normal (took UK with a tank left, 3 fatalities taking WR). G1 builds heavy into the Baltic, otherwise typical G1 moves (UK BB killed, takes AE with 2 tanks.) As soon as I see the Baltic build, I slap myself and say, “Ignore Japan completely, KGF all the way.” UK1 buys 1 fig and nothing else, counters AE, and sit. US retreats from the pacific, and makes a big naval buy on US1. ( R2 buys 4 tanks (+3 inf), and moves aggressively West. UK2 drops huge fleet, reinforced by US2. G3 tried to reinforce the Baltic fleet, but it was too little too late. The UK reinforced on UK4 (while dropping troops into Norway), and was strong enough to take out the G fleet on UK5. Pretty soon Germany is surrounded. Japan advances quickly through Asia, but by the time it can secure Novo, Berlin has fallen to the British and the Russians are headed back home.
I don’t think the strategy is a long term winner. It worked against me in the first game because I played very poorly, and even then had very bad dice in the key battles. I was intimidated into some early ground buys with England early, which made the race against the German fleet tough for England to do alone. Even so, had I just spent a turn buying fleet with the US, the allies could have easily secured the Atlantic. Silly me. :?
Hobbes,
The article you linked to is Fortress Europe. Wouldn’t it make more sense, in the event of a R1 air buy, to go hard after Russia (ala Case Blue), instead of Fortress Europe? Particularly if there’s a good chance that the Med fleet is dead before G2, doesn’t FE suffer without significant African income for Germany for several turns?
Assume the Red Empire purchases air on R1 (probably a fig, but I actually had a player buy a bomber R1 on me yesterday.) How do you react? (Assume a standard took Ukraine with a couple of armor left and everything else into West Russia move.)
My main concern typically is the med fleet. Three Russian fighters on the Caucasus can wipe out the German Med fleet on R2. Two German drops usually won’t be able to do much in Africa, particularly if the Brits counter AE on UK1. On the other hand, an R2 strike imposes a significant opportunity cost on the Russians, and there’s a good chance they’ll lose a fighter in the attack (and a decent chance they’ll lose 2.)
As far as I can tell, there’s only really two ways to prevent the R2 attack:
1. Send the Med fleet West and take Gibraltor (to prevent a UK1 strike).
2. Keep the Med fleet South of Italy, and do a G1 Naval build (at some level.)
The problem I see is that both of these strategies leave the UK fighter alive, and generally stall the African campaign (especially taking Gibraltor, as it doesn’t put any additional boots on the ground in Africa on G1.
On the other hand, maybe it doesn’t matter. In my latest game, I just went ahead and attacked AE on G1 anyway, I took it, the Brits counter AE and the Russians took out the fleet on R2, effectively pushing me out of Africa by early 2nd Round. Even so, and even with unusally slow progress in Asia by Japan, Germany had a fairly easy time walking into Moscow several turns later. So perhaps the lesson is, a Russian air buy may effectively threaten German African ambitions, but at the cost of putting the Soviets far behind in the Eastern front arms race.
Thoughts?
Greetings!
I’m an old school (pre-revised) A&A player that recently rediscovered the game. Been playing a bit on GTO, good fun, and have gravitated towards 1942 over Revised.
My question to you pros is this - what the heck do you do with the German Baltic (surface) fleet on G1? Short of dumping a huge naval build there on G1 (which feels like a sure long-term loser), I can’t figure out anything useful to do with those ships. My best move so far is to leave the transport where it is, use it to put a couple more infantry on Norway, and then move the destroyer to the SZ northeast of the UK, so at least to force the British to divide up their airforce a bit on UK1.
Does anyone have any better ideas?