Posts made by Argothair

TripleA Turn Summary: Germans round 1

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II v3 1941 Deluxe

Game History

Round: 1

    Purchase Units - Germans
        Germans buy 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 factory and 10 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 0 techTokens; 

    Combat Move - Germans
        2 submarines moved from 11 Sea Zone to 12 Sea Zone
        2 submarines moved from 7 Sea Zone to 12 Sea Zone
        2 submarines moved from 3 Sea Zone to 2b Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Norway to 2b Sea Zone
        1 bomber moved from Germany to 2b Sea Zone
        2 cruisers, 1 destroyer and 2 submarines moved from 5a Sea Zone to 5b Sea Zone
        1 destroyer and 1 submarine moved from 16a Sea Zone to 16b Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Romania to 16b Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Bulgaria to 16a Sea Zone
        1 artillery moved from Romania to 16a Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 16a Sea Zone to 16b Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from 16b Sea Zone to Armenia
        1 artillery moved from 16b Sea Zone to Armenia
        1 fighter moved from Ukraine to Armenia
        1 infantry moved from Balkans to 14c Sea Zone
        1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 14c Sea Zone to 14b Sea Zone
        2 armour and 1 infantry moved from Libya to Tobruk
        1 infantry moved from 14b Sea Zone to Tobruk
        1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Algeria to Libya
        1 infantry moved from Morocco to Algeria
        1 artillery moved from Ukraine to Eastern Ukraine
        1 armour moved from Ukraine to Eastern Ukraine
        1 infantry moved from Ukraine to Eastern Ukraine
        1 infantry moved from Ukraine to Eastern Ukraine
        1 artillery moved from East Poland to Belorussia
        3 infantry moved from East Poland to Belorussia
        1 armour moved from Ukraine to Belorussia
        1 armour moved from Romania to Belorussia
        1 infantry moved from Ukraine to Eastern Ukraine
        2 infantry moved from Romania to Ukraine
        1 armour moved from Czechoslovakia Hungary to Ukraine
        1 armour moved from Czechoslovakia Hungary to East Poland
        1 infantry moved from Poland to East Poland
        1 infantry moved from Poland to Baltic States
        1 artillery, 1 fighter and 2 infantry moved from Karelia S.S.R. to Archangel
        1 infantry moved from Norway to Finland
        1 infantry moved from Finland to Karelia S.S.R.
        1 fighter moved from Germany to Eastern Ukraine
        1 armour moved from East Poland to Ukraine
        1 armour moved from Baltic States to East Poland

    Combat - Germans
        Battle in Tobruk
            Germans attack with 2 armour and 2 infantry
            British defend with 1 bunker
                Germans roll dice for 2 armour and 2 infantry in Tobruk, round 2 : 1/4 hits, 1.33 expected hits
            Units damaged: 1 bunker owned by the British
                British roll dice for 1 bunker in Tobruk, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 2 armour and 2 infantry in Tobruk, round 3 : 1/4 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                British roll dice for 1 bunker in Tobruk, round 3 : 1/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Tobruk
                1 bunker owned by the British lost in Tobruk
            Germans win, taking Tobruk from British with 2 armour and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
            Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
            Casualties for British: 1 bunker
        Battle in 5b Sea Zone
            Germans attack with 2 cruisers, 1 destroyer and 2 submarines
            Russians defend with 1 battleship
                Germans roll dice for 2 submarines in 5b Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 2 cruisers and 1 destroyer in 5b Sea Zone, round 2 : 2/3 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 battleship in 5b Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                1 submarine owned by the Germans lost in 5b Sea Zone
                1 battleship owned by the Russians lost in 5b Sea Zone
            Germans win with 2 cruisers, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 11
            Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine
            Casualties for Russians: 1 battleship
        Battle in 2b Sea Zone
            Germans attack with 1 bomber, 1 fighter and 2 submarines
            British defend with 1 battleship and 1 transport
                Germans roll dice for 2 submarines in 2b Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
            Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British
                Germans roll dice for 1 bomber and 1 fighter in 2b Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 1.17 expected hits
                British roll dice for 1 battleship and 1 transport in 2b Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                1 submarine owned by the Germans lost in 2b Sea Zone
                1 battleship owned by the British lost in 2b Sea Zone
                1 transport owned by the British lost in 2b Sea Zone
            Germans win with 1 bomber, 1 fighter and 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 17
            Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine
            Casualties for British: 1 battleship and 1 transport
        Battle in Archangel
            Germans attack with 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 2 infantry
            Russians defend with 2 infantry
                Germans roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Archangel, round 2 : 1/4 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 2 infantry in Archangel, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Archangel
                1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Archangel
                Germans roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 infantry in Archangel, round 3 : 2/3 hits, 1.17 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Archangel, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Archangel
            Germans win, taking Archangel from Russians with 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
            Casualties for Russians: 2 infantry
        Battle in Belorussia
            Germans attack with 2 armour, 1 artillery and 3 infantry
            Russians defend with 3 infantry
                Germans roll dice for 2 armour, 1 artillery and 3 infantry in Belorussia, round 2 : 4/6 hits, 2.00 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 3 infantry in Belorussia, round 2 : 2/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                2 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Belorussia
                3 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Belorussia
            Germans win, taking Belorussia from Russians with 2 armour, 1 artillery and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Germans: 2 infantry
            Casualties for Russians: 3 infantry
        Battle in Eastern Ukraine
            Germans attack with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 3 infantry
            Russians defend with 1 artillery and 2 infantry
                Germans roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 3 infantry in Eastern Ukraine, round 2 : 0/6 hits, 2.00 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Eastern Ukraine, round 2 : 2/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                2 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Eastern Ukraine
                Germans roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 infantry in Eastern Ukraine, round 3 : 1/4 hits, 1.67 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Eastern Ukraine, round 3 : 0/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Eastern Ukraine
                Germans roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 infantry in Eastern Ukraine, round 4 : 1/4 hits, 1.67 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Eastern Ukraine, round 4 : 1/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Eastern Ukraine
                1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Eastern Ukraine
                Germans roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery and 1 fighter in Eastern Ukraine, round 5 : 1/3 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 artillery in Eastern Ukraine, round 5 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 artillery owned by the Germans lost in Eastern Ukraine
                1 artillery owned by the Russians lost in Eastern Ukraine
            Germans win, taking Eastern Ukraine from Russians with 1 armour and 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is -3
            Casualties for Germans: 1 artillery and 3 infantry
            Casualties for Russians: 1 artillery and 2 infantry
        Battle in 16b Sea Zone
            Germans attack with 1 destroyer, 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 transport
            Russians defend with 1 cruiser
                Germans roll dice for 1 submarine in 16b Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 cruiser owned by the Russians lost in 16b Sea Zone
            Germans win with 1 destroyer, 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 9
            Casualties for Russians: 1 cruiser
        Battle in Armenia
            Germans attack with 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 infantry
            Russians defend with 1 infantry
                Germans roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 infantry in Armenia, round 2 : 2/3 hits, 1.17 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Armenia, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Armenia
            Germans win, taking Armenia from Russians with 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
        Battle in 12 Sea Zone
            Germans attack with 4 submarines
            British defend with 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 fighter
                Germans roll dice for 4 submarines in 12 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/4 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                British roll dice for 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 fighter in 12 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                1 submarine owned by the Germans lost in 12 Sea Zone
                Germans roll dice for 3 submarines in 12 Sea Zone, round 3 : 1/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                British roll dice for 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 fighter in 12 Sea Zone, round 3 : 0/3 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                1 carrier owned by the British lost in 12 Sea Zone
                Germans roll dice for 3 submarines in 12 Sea Zone, round 4 : 2/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                British roll dice for 1 destroyer and 1 fighter in 12 Sea Zone, round 4 : 0/2 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                1 destroyer owned by the British lost in 12 Sea Zone
            British and Germans reach a stalemate
            . Battle score for attacker is 14
            Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine
            Casualties for British: 1 carrier and 1 destroyer
            1 fighter owned by the British forced to land in Gibraltar

    Non Combat Move - Germans
        1 artillery moved from Germany to 5a Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Germany to 5a Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 5a Sea Zone to 5b Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 5b Sea Zone to Finland
        1 fighter moved from Archangel to Finland
        1 bomber moved from 2b Sea Zone to Norway
        1 fighter moved from 2b Sea Zone to Norway
        1 fighter moved from Eastern Ukraine to Ukraine
        1 infantry moved from France to Normandy
        1 infantry moved from NW Europe to Normandy
        1 fighter moved from 16b Sea Zone to Ukraine
        1 fighter moved from Armenia to Ukraine
        1 infantry moved from Germany to Poland
        1 infantry moved from Germany to Poland

    Place Units - Germans
        1 factory placed in Romania
        1 armour, 1 artillery and 10 infantry placed in Germany

    Turn Complete - Germans
        Germans collect 60 PUs; end with 60 PUs
        Objective 1 German Oil: Germans met a national objective for an additional 4 PUs; end with 64 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Russians regular : 2.00
Germans regular : -0.50
British regular : -2.67

Savegame

@simon33 What else was Japan doing during that game? Was Japan also able to take Manila, the Dutch East Indies, southeast Asia, and central China? My experience with Japan in most of these maps is that Japan can pick and choose what area it wants to conquer in the opening and there’s not much the Allies can do about it, but Japan can’t conquer everything unless they get very lucky. Yes, a Japanese fleet based out of Hawaii is annoying and uncomfortable, but if they’re not able to pair that with their usual conquests in the western and southern Pacific, then the Japanese income should be pretty low.

Hawaii, Wake, and Guam all together are worth 11 IPCs for the Japanese, and cost the Americans 10 IPCs of objectives.

But just the 4 money islands (Sumatra, Borneo, Java, Celebes) are worth 16 IPCs for the Japanese, and there’s another 9 IPCs in ANZAC objectives that are likely in play if they can keep or trade Malaya and the Solomons. If the Japanese are a turn late in taking the second half of the Philippines, that’s at least a 6 IPC cost.

Admittedly I only tried 2 games of PtV against humans and abandoned both of them, so I’m definitely not an expert on this map in particular, but across all TripleA maps, I see a pattern where Japan can make some alternate history attacks on Hawaii that look really powerful but that aren’t actually better for the Japanese economy than the standard historical opening.

@simon33 The thing about the neutral crush is that if the Allies can pull it off successfully, then they’ve probably already set themselves up for victory anyway. There’s 6 infantry in Spain, 8 infantry in Turkey, and 2 in Saudi Arabia. The US is limited in the opening in terms of how many loaded transports it can afford to send across the Atlantic, and the UK is limited in the opening in how many units it can build up in the Middle East, even in a Middle Earth strategy. If you’ve overcome these limits and managed to build up both a US force and a UK force each of which can successfully kill off 8 defending neutral infantry, and those forces aren’t urgently needed for defense anywhere, then (a) you probably could and should just successfully kill off 8 defending Axis infantry; there ought to be some target that’s worth taking that’s not so well-defended, and (b) you’re probably doing so well that you will win no matter what you do as long as it’s not insane.

On the US end, one of the challenges is that the coast of Spain is not necessarily a safe place to park your ships – it’s typically in range of German fighters and tac bombers flying out of West Germany; to block this attack, you would need to hold Morocco and Gibraltar strongly enough that Italy can’t take them back on its turn – which is hard to do if the Allied infantry headed for the western Med are all going to Spain. You need to crush Spain’s 6 infantry hard enough that your survivors can resist an Italian/German counterattack from France; you have to take and hold Spain so you can build facilities and land planes there; otherwise you’re just trading territory that’s far enough away from the German core that it’s not really a threat to them.

On the UK end, there’s nowhere reasonable to put a third factory in the opening – you can use your starting factory in South Africa and build a new one in Persia on UK2 after activating Persia on UK1. However, it’s not safe to put a factory in Egypt against a competent Italian player, and it’s not reasonable to attack Iraq any earlier than UK2, because you need time to activate the Persian units and bring them into the fight, as well as time to contain the Italians in east Africa. So the earliest you could build an Iraq factory is UK3, which means you don’t get any new units out of that factory until UK4 – and even then, the British economy is usually too weak to fuel all 3 factories reliably. You might be earning 42 IPCs if you’re doing very well. If you want a reasonable mix of land units, so you can, e.g., put fast movers in Persia and keep them involved in the action despite their relatively long walk to Cairo, then the buy looks something like 4 infantry, 2 artillery, 2 mechs, 1 tank, which costs 34 IPCs. You probably also need to buy at least a destroyer in the Atlantic to cope with German submarines, so that’s the full 42 IPCs. If you get hit with a successful convoy attack or strategic bombing run, or if you’ve lost even one original territory anywhere (e.g. Alexandria, or Gibraltar, or British Somaliland), then you have to make some painful cuts somewhere.

So as the British, you can’t reliably crank out 9 units per turn every turn in the global South – for the first few turns your factories aren’t all online yet, and then even after that sometimes you won’t be able to afford it. Let’s say you manage 7 units per turn. OK, but Italy can typically unload at least 2 transports a turn into north Africa or Syria, so you need 4 units per turn just to counter that…which means you have something like 3 units a turn to build up to a force that can sack the 8 units in Turkey at a profit. And that assumes you’re not diverting units east to save India from Japan, or buying fighters to send north to save Moscow, both of which are often a higher priority than a neutral crush. Maybe you can build up an uncommitted striking force of 12 British units by turn 7 or 8…but most of the time I’d rather use those units to retake Cairo, land in Greece, push into a German-occupied Caucasus, etc.

Yes, it can be annoying to wait until you have enough British transports to support a landing in Greece, but it’s also annoying to gift Germany 2 infantry in Switzerland, 6 infantry in Sweden, and the loss of whatever Allied units take hits in the first round of combat against Spain, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey. On average, even a perfect attack that ends in 1 round will cost you about 5 Allied units. So if the Allies are going down 5 units, and the Germans are going up 8 units, that’s a swing of 13 units. In return, the Allies gain 6 IPCs per turn – it will take them 7 turns of collecting that income to build 13 infantry and show a tiny profit, plus another couple of turns for that profit to be converted into units that can be built and transported to the front lines. If the neutral crush happens early – say, round 5 – then you’re not really breaking even until about round 14, by which point the game’s outcome has usually been decided.

It’s not that a neutral crush is never the right answer, I just think it’s rare, and I wouldn’t want to plan ahead for it by making an early investment with the US by making an otherwise-unjustified early move to French West Africa.

Of course, if you want to do a neutral crush because it’s fun, or because it’s surprising, or because you think your opponent won’t know how to defend against it skillfully, have at it! Those are all good reasons to do a neutral crush. I just think it very rarely makes sense in terms of this game’s economy, even assuming Britain is running Middle Earth.

@Stucifer Almost done with G1 combat – just let me know your order of loss for that last naval battle.

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Germans round 1

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II v3 1941 Deluxe

Game History

Round: 1

    Purchase Units - Germans
        Germans buy 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 factory and 10 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 0 techTokens; 

    Combat Move - Germans
        2 submarines moved from 11 Sea Zone to 12 Sea Zone
        2 submarines moved from 7 Sea Zone to 12 Sea Zone
        2 submarines moved from 3 Sea Zone to 2b Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Norway to 2b Sea Zone
        1 bomber moved from Germany to 2b Sea Zone
        2 cruisers, 1 destroyer and 2 submarines moved from 5a Sea Zone to 5b Sea Zone
        1 destroyer and 1 submarine moved from 16a Sea Zone to 16b Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Romania to 16b Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Bulgaria to 16a Sea Zone
        1 artillery moved from Romania to 16a Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 16a Sea Zone to 16b Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from 16b Sea Zone to Armenia
        1 artillery moved from 16b Sea Zone to Armenia
        1 fighter moved from Ukraine to Armenia
        1 infantry moved from Balkans to 14c Sea Zone
        1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 14c Sea Zone to 14b Sea Zone
        2 armour and 1 infantry moved from Libya to Tobruk
        1 infantry moved from 14b Sea Zone to Tobruk
        1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Algeria to Libya
        1 infantry moved from Morocco to Algeria
        1 artillery moved from Ukraine to Eastern Ukraine
        1 armour moved from Ukraine to Eastern Ukraine
        1 infantry moved from Ukraine to Eastern Ukraine
        1 infantry moved from Ukraine to Eastern Ukraine
        1 artillery moved from East Poland to Belorussia
        3 infantry moved from East Poland to Belorussia
        1 armour moved from Ukraine to Belorussia
        1 armour moved from Romania to Belorussia
        1 infantry moved from Ukraine to Eastern Ukraine
        2 infantry moved from Romania to Ukraine
        1 armour moved from Czechoslovakia Hungary to Ukraine
        1 armour moved from Czechoslovakia Hungary to East Poland
        1 infantry moved from Poland to East Poland
        1 infantry moved from Poland to Baltic States
        1 artillery, 1 fighter and 2 infantry moved from Karelia S.S.R. to Archangel
        1 infantry moved from Norway to Finland
        1 infantry moved from Finland to Karelia S.S.R.
        1 fighter moved from Germany to Eastern Ukraine
        1 armour moved from East Poland to Ukraine
        1 armour moved from Baltic States to East Poland

    Combat - Germans
        Battle in Tobruk
            Germans attack with 2 armour and 2 infantry
            British defend with 1 bunker
                Germans roll dice for 2 armour and 2 infantry in Tobruk, round 2 : 1/4 hits, 1.33 expected hits
            Units damaged: 1 bunker owned by the British
                British roll dice for 1 bunker in Tobruk, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 2 armour and 2 infantry in Tobruk, round 3 : 1/4 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                British roll dice for 1 bunker in Tobruk, round 3 : 1/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Tobruk
                1 bunker owned by the British lost in Tobruk
            Germans win, taking Tobruk from British with 2 armour and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
            Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
            Casualties for British: 1 bunker
        Battle in 5b Sea Zone
            Germans attack with 2 cruisers, 1 destroyer and 2 submarines
            Russians defend with 1 battleship
                Germans roll dice for 2 submarines in 5b Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 2 cruisers and 1 destroyer in 5b Sea Zone, round 2 : 2/3 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 battleship in 5b Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                1 submarine owned by the Germans lost in 5b Sea Zone
                1 battleship owned by the Russians lost in 5b Sea Zone
            Germans win with 2 cruisers, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 11
            Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine
            Casualties for Russians: 1 battleship
        Battle in 2b Sea Zone
            Germans attack with 1 bomber, 1 fighter and 2 submarines
            British defend with 1 battleship and 1 transport
                Germans roll dice for 2 submarines in 2b Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
            Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British
                Germans roll dice for 1 bomber and 1 fighter in 2b Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 1.17 expected hits
                British roll dice for 1 battleship and 1 transport in 2b Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                1 submarine owned by the Germans lost in 2b Sea Zone
                1 battleship owned by the British lost in 2b Sea Zone
                1 transport owned by the British lost in 2b Sea Zone
            Germans win with 1 bomber, 1 fighter and 1 submarine remaining. Battle score for attacker is 17
            Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine
            Casualties for British: 1 battleship and 1 transport
        Battle in Archangel
            Germans attack with 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 2 infantry
            Russians defend with 2 infantry
                Germans roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Archangel, round 2 : 1/4 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 2 infantry in Archangel, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Archangel
                1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Archangel
                Germans roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 infantry in Archangel, round 3 : 2/3 hits, 1.17 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Archangel, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Archangel
            Germans win, taking Archangel from Russians with 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
            Casualties for Russians: 2 infantry
        Battle in Belorussia
            Germans attack with 2 armour, 1 artillery and 3 infantry
            Russians defend with 3 infantry
                Germans roll dice for 2 armour, 1 artillery and 3 infantry in Belorussia, round 2 : 4/6 hits, 2.00 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 3 infantry in Belorussia, round 2 : 2/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                2 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Belorussia
                3 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Belorussia
            Germans win, taking Belorussia from Russians with 2 armour, 1 artillery and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Germans: 2 infantry
            Casualties for Russians: 3 infantry
        Battle in Eastern Ukraine
            Germans attack with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 3 infantry
            Russians defend with 1 artillery and 2 infantry
                Germans roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 3 infantry in Eastern Ukraine, round 2 : 0/6 hits, 2.00 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Eastern Ukraine, round 2 : 2/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                2 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Eastern Ukraine
                Germans roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 infantry in Eastern Ukraine, round 3 : 1/4 hits, 1.67 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Eastern Ukraine, round 3 : 0/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Eastern Ukraine
                Germans roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 infantry in Eastern Ukraine, round 4 : 1/4 hits, 1.67 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Eastern Ukraine, round 4 : 1/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Eastern Ukraine
                1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Eastern Ukraine
                Germans roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery and 1 fighter in Eastern Ukraine, round 5 : 1/3 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 artillery in Eastern Ukraine, round 5 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 artillery owned by the Germans lost in Eastern Ukraine
                1 artillery owned by the Russians lost in Eastern Ukraine
            Germans win, taking Eastern Ukraine from Russians with 1 armour and 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is -3
            Casualties for Germans: 1 artillery and 3 infantry
            Casualties for Russians: 1 artillery and 2 infantry
        Battle in 16b Sea Zone
            Germans attack with 1 destroyer, 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 transport
            Russians defend with 1 cruiser
                Germans roll dice for 1 submarine in 16b Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 cruiser owned by the Russians lost in 16b Sea Zone
            Germans win with 1 destroyer, 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 9
            Casualties for Russians: 1 cruiser
        Battle in Armenia
            Germans attack with 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 infantry
            Russians defend with 1 infantry
                Germans roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 infantry in Armenia, round 2 : 2/3 hits, 1.17 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Armenia, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Armenia
            Germans win, taking Armenia from Russians with 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
        Battle in 12 Sea Zone
            Germans attack with 4 submarines
            British defend with 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 fighter
                Germans roll dice for 4 submarines in 12 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/4 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                British roll dice for 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 fighter in 12 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                1 submarine owned by the Germans lost in 12 Sea Zone
                Germans roll dice for 3 submarines in 12 Sea Zone, round 3 : 1/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Russians regular : 2.00
Germans regular : -1.50
British regular : -0.33

Savegame

@Stucifer OK, the Germans go first – I will submit their move. In the meantime, want to make sure you can download and open this saved game OK?

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Germans round 1

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II v3 1941 Deluxe

Game History

Round: 1

    Purchase Units - Germans

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

Testing Forum poster

Test summary from TripleA, engine version: 2.7.14934, time: 3:35:23 PM
Savegame

Placeholder

@cheezhead1252 Good luck, and have fun!

…oh, and congratulations! :-D

@vodot My pleasure! Thanks for asking.

Unit mix is very similar to the standard ww2v3 game; I didn’t want people to feel the units were unfamiliar. The only changes are that naval units are now cheaper, there is an option to build a minor factory called a ‘barracks’, and there are a few 2-hit bunkers starting on the map at setup. You can’t build any new bunkers.

Here is the map; it’s less exciting than Vodot’s gorgeous artwork, but it should be functional enough for online games. You can see that I’ve added Free France as a playable power (in light blue), and that there are new territories in the Med and the south Pacific. If anyone cares to make a skin or if there’s anything I can do to help with that, I’d love to hear about it.

European setup:

Pacific setup:

And, finally, the reworked national objectives. These are easier to keep track of than you might think, both because the game automatically scores them for you, and because the oil derricks and Flying Tiger drop-off zones are marked with symbols on the map.

I am pleased to announce that my TripleA map, “WW2v3 1941 Deluxe,” which is heavily inspired by @vodot 's thoughts and images here, is now live and available for download using the TripleA app!

I am happy to playtest it with anyone who’s interested; I’ll take either side. I cannot be sure the map is balanced until I get some human testers, but so far it seems to me to be about equally difficult to beat the AI using either side.

Note that the description you see as you load the map is broken right now, but the rest of the game still works fine, and you should be able to access detailed game notes by using the Help > Game Notes menu option once the map is loaded.

@TheDesertFox I agree with you, and I’ve been designing my mods accordingly. My Balanced Mod for the Anniversary (ww2v3) map has three explicit Russian lend-lease objectives for Archangel, Persia, Vladivostok, and their respective sea zones, and they don’t incorporate any xenophobia that cancels the objectives if the Western Allies have boots or planes on Russian soil.

I’m expecting my latest map, WW2v3 Deluxe, to come out this weekend. It’s inspired by some of vodot’s hard copy map changes, and it includes direct ‘gifts’ of specific Russian units (artillery, tanks, and AA guns) based on control of the lend-lease routes.

More broadly, do keep in mind that the Soviet Union can’t be reliably powerful enough to beat Germany all on their own if you want a competitive game. If the Soviets are a match for the Germans, then the UK is certainly a match for Italy and the US is a match for Japan, so the Axis will lose essentially every time. The Germans have to be able to kill the Russians in most 1v1 matchups (maybe not easily, and not all the time, but at least most of the time); otherwise the game stops being balanced.

@Cornwallis I think there are a few different proposals all being discussed at once. Let me try to be clearer about why each of them falls short of being a successful strategy.

1. Ship just your starting mechs to West Africa over the first few turns.
2. Ship a large number of infantry and mechs to West Africa over many turns.
3. Ship a large number of infantry and mechs to the Congo over many turns.

(1) is not a bad idea, but it’s also not really a full strategy – it’s just a way to squeeze out a little bit of extra defensive power with some more-or-less available units. The mechs can drive to Cairo, but this means your early transports aren’t available to ferry units out of Brazil, the starting mechs aren’t available to garrison Hawaii, and you’re vulnerable to having your shuck disrupted if the Italian fleet comes west through Gibraltar or a couple of German subs head south, because now you have transports off the coast of West Africa that can’t easily escape back to a safe sea zone. The benefits of this plan are minor, the costs of this plan are minor, and even if you use this plan, you still need a strategy for what the UK is going to do with most of its units and cash.

(2) is a terrible idea because the infantry will be stuck in West Africa with nothing useful to do for too much of the game. The US really needs to be working toward gaining control of the sea zones around Gibraltar and London, or else it needs to be pushing back Japan and retaking the money islands. Stacking troops up in West Africa gives the illusion of progress without accomplishing any of these goals.

(3) is not possible – there are no sea zones bordering the Congo that the US can reasonably reach by sailing from North America.

@barnee I’m not recommending a naval base in Mexico; I’m just pointing out that Cornwallis’s plan of repeatedly shucking units between Mexico and southwest Africa seems to imply the presence of a naval base there. I agree with you that such a naval base is ill-advised.

I think there is very little point in shucking fast movers alone to west Africa – the extra defensive value in, e.g., Cairo is not worth the cost of the transports, let alone the naval base. America starts with only one transport in the Atlantic. There’s no sense in building up a fleet of American transports unless and until you’re ready to seriously challenge a sea zone that can actually put real pressure on the Axis.

If for some reason you really need to defend Cairo, American fighters will be more efficient. For example, if you build 3 transports on turn 1, then you have a fleet of 4 transports, meaning you can shuck 2 fast movers to West Africa per turn. You admittedly start with 4 mechs that aren’t urgently needed elsewhere; let’s say you buy 2 more mechs and 2 tanks to give them a bit of offensive punch. So now over the course of turns 1-4 you can ship your 6 mechs and 2 tanks to West Africa, and they will arrive in Cairo by turn 6. This costs the US $21 for the transports, $15 for the naval base, and $20 for the extra mechs/tanks – a total of $56 to get 8 hit points into Cairo that defend with 24 pips.

Alternatively, you could just build 6 fighters for $60. That gets you 6 hit points into Cairo by turn 4 (reach West Africa on turn 3) that defend with 24 pips. You arrive notably earlier with a force that’s very nearly as powerful as the mechs/tanks, plus your starting mechs are still available to fill up transports going to, e.g., Hawaii or to prepare for a later assault on Gibraltar.

All that said, one of the many advantages of a Middle Earth strategy is that you can safely withdraw from Cairo into Sudan/Jordan. It’s not urgent for the British to hold Cairo if the Allies don’t build a factory there. The UK can build 6 new units/turn (from S. Africa & Persia) that can attack Cairo, plus most likely some support coming in from India, Malta, the troops you divert to clean up Ethiopia, and so on. By contrast, Italy is very unlikely to be able to get anything like 6 land units per turn down into the region while also defending against, e.g., American subs. Over time, the balance of power will shift back toward the Allies and you will force the Italians back out.

@Cornwallis You still need to have the US build a naval base in Mexico or Panama; otherwise the US can’t get its units from the Gulf of Mexico to the southeast Atlantic in one move.

I also don’t think the ‘unload in the Congo’ scheme works at all. The Congo borders Sea Zone 70, which is a minimum of 5 moves from any US departure point. Similarly, French Equatorial Africa is on Sea Zone 82, which is a minimum of 4 moves from any US departure point. The furthest to the southeast you can get in one naval move from anywhere in North America is just French West Africa, which is a lousy place to be unloading slow movers.

The Axis “Dark Skies” strategy of using subs and bombers to deny the Allies access to Sea Zone 91 (west of Gibraltar) is powerful, but I don’t think heading for sub-Saharan Africa is a reasonable or effective way of countering it. Instead, when you’re ready to have the US cross the Atlantic, I’d recommend building about 8 US fighters, flying them to Iceland, and from Iceland to both England and Scotland. The UK can build destroyers and one naked carrier in Sea Zone 109 (so 2 more US fighters can land there). If necessary the UK can also build a destroyer in SZ 110 to block any attack by a German Baltic Fleet. The resulting defensive stack will have 8 fighters, a carrier, and a couple of destroyers – more than enough to inflict unbearable losses against any plausible German heavy bomber force. Even if the Germans ‘win’ the resulting battle, they will be left without enough air force to take Moscow. If the Germans lose the battle or don’t take the bait, then you can follow up by building US transports, moving them to SZ 106 (Canada) and then SZ 109 (England). They can shuck back and forth between Canada and England until you’re ready for a landing; this is basically the historical Allied strategy.

@oysteilo Well, sure, but then you have to dip into the thin British income to build a naval base in the Congo, or else your transports can’t quite make it back to Eastern US to pick up more ground units in one move.

@Cornwallis That’s very creative, and I appreciate you sharing it, but I agree with oysteilo that sending American transports to West Africa is too inefficient to be a reasonable strategy.

After unloading in West Africa, the tanks and mechs can certainly drive to Egypt as you suggest, but the infantry are basically wasted – by the time they can walk to Egypt that theater should already have been resolved one way or another. If you are going to carry on shipping the infantry from West Africa to Morocco then you are wasting a move because they could have just landed in Morocco in the first place, and I cannot see any good reason to ship the infantry from West Africa to South Africa – if South Africa is threatened so badly that it needs to be rescued by the Americans, then the Allies have already lost. A ‘buildup’ of infantry in West Africa does not accomplish anything that you could not do just as easily with a ‘buildup’ in the eastern US, because the troops in West Africa still can’t reach anywhere but Gibraltar and Morocco.

@oysteilo Much of the point of Middle Earth is that you skip the landings-from-London. The US comes to Gibraltar and supports the UK in attacking Italy.

A factory built in Egypt itself is typically not safe, and as you point out, the UK can’t really afford to fuel more than 2 factories for most of the game. So, you use the factory in South Africa, build one in Persia on turn 2, and then you have 6 British units per turn that you can use to secure Egypt, Jordan, and Iraq. This then lets you quickly send subs built in South Africa into the Med to start convoying Italy. If the UK can hold Egypt and Jordan and bother Italy with subs, then Italy will usually be far too poor to resist a strong US invasion; the US can buy whatever transports, land units, destroyers, carriers, etc. are needed, while the UK buys only the relatively cheap infantry and subs, plus maybe 1 tank in South Africa now and then. This makes the best use of the larger US income and also sets the US up to ‘fork’ West Germany, Normandy, and Italy from the sea zone next to Gibraltar.

The thought behind Middle Earth is that you usually need to invest something in the Med/Africa in order to avoid losing most of the British income, so as long as you’re playing there at all, you may as well go big in that theater. Better to just keep on pushing in the Med / Middle East than to try to pivot to an Atlantic strategy that will require substantial UK investment in many transports, destroyers, carriers, and so on. As @oysteilo correctly points out, you want to keep UK investment in infrastructure to a minimum…but you start with harbors in South Africa and Egypt, so the only infrastructure you need to buy for Middle Earth is a single minor factory in Persia and two transports (one at a time) to shuttle troops up from South Africa to Egypt. Total investment is 26 IPCs. It doesn’t get cheaper than that, as far as effective strategies go.

As @Galendae correctly points out, the strategy can lead to extremely long games against a competent Axis player; if the US needs to spend most of its income containing Japan in the opening, then a serious US invasion of Italy won’t come until much later in the game, by which point Moscow has probably fallen or at least been crippled. I don’t see a good way around this, which is part of why I prefer to play Anniversary these days rather than Global.

I’m curious if anyone can recommend other UK strategies, especially if they’re likely to lead to a shorter game. There was some interesting discussion of “Gibastion” a few years ago, but I haven’t heard of new ones since then.

@mikawagunichi Hello, thanks for reaching out. I apologize for all of the ongoing delays. As you’ve noticed, I’ve struggled to send in my moves at a reasonable frequency. At first this really was because I was insanely busy or sick, but for the last couple of months I think I’ve been losing interest. I really appreciate you introducing me to the game, but this map is just not for me – it seems to take more turns than I am willing to invest to reach a decisive resolution even in one region of the map.

For league purposes, I resign and declare you to be the winner. Again, thank you for the warm introduction and for your patience and grace. I hope you find some other opponents who can respond more frequently.