Posts made by AgentOrange

Thanks dude.  I will definitely be looking those up, although I don’t know about right now, being at work and all…

I’d like to discuss this game, of course.  But I’m also wondering if anyone can tell me where to get a copy of it?  I’m on an old-school fix, and that one came to mind…

@cyan:

@Yemble:

It was SS units which hunted down Jews, political criminals, and other “rotents” in areas recently captured by Germany.  Einstatzgroupen I believe they were called, which located and eliminated inferior groups of people.  They comprised the fanatics, who were hitlers personal guard, who believed the sh*t he spouted whereas the wehrmacht was the army which was the most likely to not know about the atrocities of SS.

there like the revolutionary guard for Iran. just as guilty.

I don’t see how they’re “just as guilty” if they actually didn’t know about it.

@AJ:

Yes … Nazis are Nazis but normal soldiers in the Army were not necessarily Nazis

Thank you AJ!  Yes, the SS may have been trained and brought up to trample everyone without discrimination, but the regular average joe in the German army was not quite the same type of brutal, merciless soldier.

I didn’t say that brainwashing and peer pressure are the same thing, just that BOTH of them were going on under the Nazi regime.

• Brainwash people, and you can get them to see your point-of-view pretty effortlessly.
• Peer pressure them, and you can get them to do things they might otherwise never have done.
• Spread propaganda, and you can effectively twist the truth to suit your whims.

See how all 3 of these were used by Hitler and his goons to mold themselves “the perfect army”?

Exactly.  People always change their minds when their lives are threatened.  And if changing your mind leads you to join the winning team, (at the time anyway) then it makes it all the more easy to become one of those monster types.  I’m only saying that it’s perfectly simple, using the Nazis as THE example here, to turn ordinary guys into a$$holes.  The Fascist point-of-view being drummed into their minds is what led them to believe that they were superior, that they could kill anyone they wanted, and that the ascendance of the master race was paramount.  Because of all that, Herr Hitler had at his disposal a fighting force that, besides being exceptionally well-trained and equipped, was also ruthless and cold-blooded.  Like a pack of blood-thirsty rabid dogs, they literally hungered for violence and bloodshed, so long as it was the “weaker non-Aryans” who were being killed.  And as far as being brainwashed, of course it happens!  That’s what the H.J. was all about.  Grabbing kids at an early age, and “educating” them in the ways of the Aryan master race.

But as you pointed out, and also to go along with my point about peer pressure and conviction, there were definitely those who resisted the idea of genocide and cold-blooded murder.  Unfortunately, such things had already become a growing trend, and thus such dissenters were killed and replaced with another willing zombie.

…and for the record, I voted Yes for this poll.

@cyan:

@AgentOrange:

@cyan:

@Yahoshua:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/36th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/29th_Waffen-Grenadier_Division_der_SS_(1st_Russian)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Division_Totenkopf

Also take into account that the entire organisation was declared a criiminal organisation by the International Military Tribunal during the Nuremburg Trials. There’s more than enough blood on the hands of the SS to paint the whole damn lot with the same brush.

thank you. some one with some sense. all nazzi’s are evil. anyone who commits or supports genocide is evil. communist russia was 200 times better than germany. the still wouldn’t be able to take over such a large country.

That’s not what we’re saying.  The important thing to note is that they were fighting merely for country.  If genocide was taking place at the hands of their country, but without the typical soldier’s knowledge, then how can you say that ALL their soldiers were evil?  While some of the “death squad” types were in the know about these horrible things, I highly doubt that the ENTIRE German army knew about it, and thus, can’t be held ENTIRELY accountable.

line up those citizensn and shoot them. line up those jews and gas them. it would be amazing how someone so stupid could live in the army getting shot at every day.  i think most still supported it because its was the only way for them to get ahead. they were conditioned to kill, and eventually submitted to what every reason. probably not out of hatred but out of what they thought was necessity. guessing  thats the mentatilty the french had also so they  out right rebel when paris was surrendered. maybe the air froce, and the tank crews didn’t know but most of the german infantry must of known.

OK, point taken there, but even so, not every one of 'em agreed with the morality of it all.  There are some on this very forum (myself included) who are in the military, but we don’t always agree with the moral/ethical ramifications of the decisions made numerous levels above our paygrade.  Do members of the military have the right to disobey orders?  Only the unlawful ones.  In Nazi Germany’s case, it apparently wasn’t considered “unlawful” to line up and subsequently murder innocent civilians.  But still, there must’ve been those who couldn’t even stomach the idea.  Of course, the Fascist ideal was that “our nation has the God-given right to trample whoever we choose, simply because we are stronger than they are.”  So even the guy who never wanted to kill innocent people may get forced to do so because that is what his nation/military might expect of him.

War brings out the worst in people, and in some cases, makes them monsters.  I think it could easily be compared to peer pressure.  Kids try smoking pot all the time, and a lot of them may not actually want to do it for themselves, but more so because they want to “fit in” or “be part of the cool crowd”.  Whatever.  I know that when it was offered to me, I had no reservations; I was just curious, and the rest is history.  I can’t do it now, because that could cost me my job.  But I firmly believe that it is not the “soul-crushing narcotic” it’s made out to be in Reefer Madness; people just need to be made aware of what it can do.

…but as I digress…
The point I’m trying to make with the peer pressure thing is that sometimes people lose sight of what they truly believe in, just so that their friends/coworkers/comrades-in-arms won’t call them a pu55y, or maybe even because they fear retribution of some kind.  But the big question is:  If you don’t want to try smoking pot, or you don’t want to shoot a defenseless human being in the head, then WHO F**KING CARES?  The truly strong would have some damn conviction and stand by their beliefs, and I guarantee that this fits a few of 'em.

@cyan:

@Yahoshua:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/36th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/29th_Waffen-Grenadier_Division_der_SS_(1st_Russian)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Division_Totenkopf

Also take into account that the entire organisation was declared a criiminal organisation by the International Military Tribunal during the Nuremburg Trials. There’s more than enough blood on the hands of the SS to paint the whole damn lot with the same brush.

thank you. some one with some sense. all nazzi’s are evil. anyone who commits or supports genocide is evil. communist russia was 200 times better than germany. the still wouldn’t be able to take over such a large country.

That’s not what we’re saying.  The important thing to note is that they were fighting merely for country.  If genocide was taking place at the hands of their country, but without the typical soldier’s knowledge, then how can you say that ALL their soldiers were evil?  While some of the “death squad” types were in the know about these horrible things, I highly doubt that the ENTIRE German army knew about it, and thus, can’t be held ENTIRELY accountable.

@M36:

Most German soldiers where just average people, who had no plans of extermination or new world orders, they where simply fighting because their country needed them.

That is definitely true.  Only the people higher up in the National Socialist food chain knew what was really going on.  I don’t think that every soldier in the German army at the time would’ve just been “all for it” if they found out that their high-end political/military leaders were commiting genocide and other such atrocities.

I’ve said before (and I hope M36 will back me up, even though he’s a marine, and I’m navy) that Erwin Rommel was one of my most influential leaders.  I just like the way that he led his army.  He got into more disagreements with his senior officers than he did with his grunts who were doing the fighting.  He often went right up there with them and gave them pats on the back, saying “Hey, you’re doing a great job, keep it up, your country needs you,” etc.  In my opinion, that is a bad-a$$ CO.

Rommel may have been powerful, in that he commanded troops and their respect, but he lacked TRUE power.  By this I’m referring to the “tall throne of judgment” inhabited by Hitler and his cronies."  As long as the German people believe they are fighting for something worthwhile, and have no idea of what’s going on behind their backs, then we can do whatever we want!  Let’s start by exterminating all the Jews, since they are the source of much of the corruption in our society."  Isn’t that the M.O. that motivated Hitler?

I’m pretty sure that the sniper IS subject to that extra attack roll.  Blast just says that a separate attack roll is made against each unit there, and if at least one of them is ABLE to be attacked at med/long range, than the other one is also in danger (sorry sniper)

Definitely true.  I guess that means that ALL my old maps will be useless…  :cry:  Maybe I’ll just have to make my own.  :wink: Are we sure that they will be 3" across?

Honestly, (and sorry to slightly change the subject) I’m glad that they’re coming out with a new land-based minis set, 'cuz I happen to prefer that to War at Sea.

Are the hexes gonna be increased in size too?  'Cuz I think they should be, in order to accommodate larger sized units.  I mean, I noticed that some are already a little bulky…

Well where DID you hear of them?  I’m only asking because I’ve never heard of them at all…  :|

My armies that I have already set up are 600 points each, with 300 put into armor and 300 into infantry.  The idea there was to have it set up for 4 players, with one person controlling either the armor or infantry portion of their team.

@Imperious:

I like the fat Japanese guy. He ate too many noodles before combat.

:lol:  :lol: LMFAO!!  :lol:  :lol:

I’m pretty sure both conditions result in victory, but killing off the daimyos seemed to be the method of choice, because they’re just such a juicy target!

I’m with the “Don’t judge a book by it’s cover” approach.  As a loyal drone of the A&A games, I WILL be picking this one up, whether it gets packaged in this box, or in quarter-pound ziploc bags.  :lol:  :lol:

Seriously, though, I like the design (however inaccurate) and I think it suits the atmosphere of the game, if you will.

@dezrtfish:

By the way, I didn’t win the game, but at least I wasn’t eliminated.  One thing I recomend is using the optiona rule that a winner can only be declared at the end of the round.

Apparently it’s been so long since I last played that I didn’t know that’s how the rules worked.  I would’ve figured (given that it’s an AH game) that it DID work that way.  :|

Realistically, I don’t think the HQ should receive both bonuses, because the pillbox is simply NOT that big in real life, that the HQ would actually benefit from both.