Tech via a Point System

@cousin_joe:

The only Tweaks I would suggest would be subdivide into Minor, Moderate, and Major
Paratroopers could be moved to Major as per subotai’s post
Then use the following point scheme…

Minor - 10 points
Moderate - 20 points
Major - 30 Points

I guess that would be easier to track, but it then lacks flexibility to tweak techs individually.
For example, I think war bonds are too high priced at 10.

An 8 might be better.

@cousin_joe:

I would also suggest limiting research to one Tech at a time as per OOTB rules
This would make more incentive for players to buy more researchers (ie. to get techs faster so they can move on to another tech)

I see your point, but I am seeing most games being determined MUCH faster in AA50, especially if you use NOs.
By round 6, the winner has usually been determined.  Closer games have gone into round 8, round 10 is an extreme.

So along these lines, a country may only get to develop 3-4 weapons a game (depends on alot of things like income and willingness to spend more on tech)

I think if you want to water down your tech investment into many techs, then the odds are those break thrus will be much slower/later than rushing for one or two techs.  Why limit a countries options when the IPCs and need for units does that already?

@cousin_joe:

The only other thing to consider if allowing Directed Tech is the “Tech coming into effect instantly” aspect.  I don’t think Directed Tech and Instant Tech could co-exist in the same game.  You would have to change it so that Tech comes into effect the next turn.

I’ve always disliked Instant Tech because not only does a player get lucky on you by getting HB on some miraculous roll for a ridiculously low price, but he adds insult to injury by totally skewing battle odds on various fronts (particularly Naval) before you have a chance to react.  It just throws strategy further out the window.

This effect was somewhat minimized though by Tech being Random.  A player couldn’t necessarily buy a whole bunch of HBs knowing he was getting HBs. With Directed Tech that changes, and a player’s whole gameplan could revolve around getting HBs and building up to this.  Therefore, to cancel this possibility, if allowing Directed tech, Tech should come into effect the following turn.

if directed tech on a game breaking weapon was attainable with one round of IPC, then I can agree.
However, the ‘game breakers’ are ranked very costly  LR=25, HB=30, Mech Inf=25.

If you look at an average outcome on a die being 3.5, you would need to roll 7 dice (or $35 in IPCs) to have an average chance to get 25.
It goes to 9 dice for the HB’s.

This is no miraculous roll for a ridiculously low price.  Also, you could see USA researcher HBs and prepare for it as they get closer.
At this time, because of their cost and the shortness of the game, I suggest we try to keep the instantaneousness of the tech that is AA50 tech rules.

Recall one of the goals is to try to miminize the house rules with respect to the AA50 tech.  All this system alters is how you obtain the tech, not their capability nor when they come into play.

Game play testing may prove my thoughts to be misguided, and then we can tweak the rules.

I don’t think a reduction in costs is too bad since it seems AA50 games are shorter than revised (at least at this point in the games life cycle)

I am ok too with HB’s being much cheaper in light of the recent FAQ’s change to their power (best of two dice, ala LHTR).  I am not so sure that your demotion of mech inf should be to 15.  I think 17 is better.

Also, if we’re splitting hairs, I would like to see jet power be 12, not 10, just because ftrs are so versatile and prevelant in the game already.

@oztea:

Id rather see higher numbers for the techs, and have nation specific tech advantages

The US would start with War Bonds, Mech Infantry, and Paratroopers already near completion

The UK would start with Paratroopers, and Radar within a die roll of completion (about 5 points from completion)

The Soviets would start with Increased Production about half complete, and perhaps war bonds too

Germany would start the game with Rockets and Advanced Artillery almost complete, and some points in Jet Fighters

Japan would start with a little bit in Shipyards, Long-Range, and Supersubs

Italy would start with some in Paratroopers and Shipyards

Your slant has a more historical take on the weapons development.  Personally, I prefer more of the ‘what-if’ idea,
where I can choose what’s best for the game strategically for the country I am playing.

But…
This is the beauty of this system: it’s so flexible and can easily be changed on a game by game basis.

I propose the smaller numbers for games without NO’s in play or if you want a more tech heavy game.

@oztea:

Germany would start the game with Rockets and Advanced Artillery almost complete, and some points in Jet Fighters

If I am not mistaken, until the battle of Malta, Germany had quite the crack paratrooper units

@Imperious:

no. the battle of Crete. They lost most of these on that operation

opps, different med island

@cts17:

@axis_roll:

Initial tech points assignments:

Tech              Value

War bonds:            10
Advanced Artillery:    10
Paratrooper:          20
IC:                    20
Mech Inf:              25
Rockets:              20

Shipyards:            15
Long Range:            25
Heavy Bombers:        30
Radar:                20
Jet Fighters:          15
Supersubs:            15

Okay, I’ve playtested this (somewhat) with axis_roll, and while we didn’t get too far, before I had to call it quits due to time issues, I think that a serious reduction in cost is in order. Here are my suggested prices.

War bonds:            8
Advanced Artillery:    8
Paratrooper:          12
IC:                    12
Mech Inf:              15
Rockets:              15

Shipyards:            10
Long Range:            17
Heavy Bombers:        20
Radar:                12
Jet Fighters:          10
Supersubs:            10

These numbers are too low, ESPECIALLY for the ‘game hreaking’ tech like Long range or paratroopers.
My intent was to eliminate the random roll but not ‘guarentee’ a great roll by allowing one to target that roll

How do I know… game play testing.

USA decides that paratroopers will allow them to take Berlin.  They take all $40 in their bank and buy 8 dice, giving them Paratroopers.
USA has in essence bought a weapon.  UGH!  This is the main reason the initial prices were at their level… no ‘buying’ a tech

I dislike the instant aspect of targetted tech.  In Revised (LHTR), tech came active at the end of your turn.  No Buying long range with a wad of cash because you needed it that turn to take out Germany.

with AA50, techs are instant again.  But OOB rules makes hem random, so there’s no guarentee.  The Tech By Point system allows targetting, and we’re back to the same purchase-a-win problem.

A quick thought for a fix would be a tech obtained on it’s first roll attempt is only active at the end of a turn (or after non-combat has been completed if you wanted war bonds to be active).

@Yoshi:

Yes, the idea is quite good.

I think the main point is about techs which allow to increase your attack directly. So mainly LRA, paratroopers, heavy bomber  (maybe less now that they have been reduced a lot by the new faq), mech infantry, and at a less level adv artillery, super subs and jet fighters.

Thought about that as well… listing specific techs (like you list) that would not be instant on their first roll.
Either way is fine.

what is needed is more game play testing… :)

@Yoshi:

@cousin_joe:

Disadvantages of the System
1. One disadavantage I see, is that players can still “buy” a Tech in one turn.  If a player is planning an attack and needs a certain Tech to help it succeed, he can spend enough IPC to pretty much guarantee that Tech, which of course is cheived instantly.  This can be gamebreaking especially when capitals are involved.

This one can be easily managed by using the idea given a little before : it is sufficient to delay the activation of “big” techs at the end of the turn if all the rolls have been bought this turn.

yep, no buying instant ‘killer’ techs and using them in the same round.