make sure you are getting your share of ftrs. Why?
These are the key to holding any large Russian push against Germany: land ftrs to support the Russian army thrust……To me, a gob of allied ftrs give the flexiblity the allies need to deal with axis mid game thrusts (and keep them worried about a dump of UK/UK ground units into NWE supported by 8 ftrs)
Excellent point. A heavy investment in fighters could be the key to winning the long game if Germany turtles successfully…as these fighters can move from Poland to Persia to Moscow to fleet ACs as needed.
also, getting after Italy opens another front the axis must be concerned about: The fall of italy.
USA units will march through africa to meet Japan in Persia.
These seem to be related points, as the shuck to 12 keeps the threat to Italy real. However, my Africa shuck never seems to make to it Persia….Axis tends to kill off the units before then. Maybe I need to buy more gear/transports and less bombers in the early going, but not having sufficient air means the Japs could get in close and dominate SZ 34.
also, getting after Italy opens another front the axis must be concerned about: The fall of italy.
USA units will march through africa to meet Japan in Persia.
These seem to be related points, as the shuck to 12 keeps the threat to Italy real. However, my Africa shuck never seems to make to it Persia….Axis tends to kill off the units before then. Maybe I need to buy more gear/transports and less bombers in the early going, but not having sufficient air means the Japs could get in close and dominate SZ 34.
Where are they getting killed and by whom? If it’s Japan, at least those units are not going after Russia.
The key here is to get enough allied units to hold at least Egypt.
This would offer a late game UK IC if UK could afford it. That’s huge if you can swing it. That’s a strong late-mid game move I have used effectively if Germany is contained but Japan can’t break thru to take Russia.
This is what I find works well, now depending on optional rules, etc, this can change. There are a few keys to this.
never, ever ever, all G to take there 3rd NO. Starting on R1 stack Kar with everything that can reach and on UK1 land 2 fighters. To follow this, on UK1 you should purchase atleast 2 transports, at times 3, along with a carrier and/or a DD if needed. Begining on UK2 start the shuck into Kar. This will allow you to hold Kar the entire game without using too many of R’s resources.
never, ever ever, allow Persia to fall to japan. Starting with the UK stack from TJ/India, added to with Russian Inf on R2, followed up with US airpower (fighers and a bomber or 2 if possible, make Japan protect her transports and her factories).
US vs Italy. Shuck into africa, keep inf in morocco and send armor towards Persia. If not playing with interceptors (which I despise) SBR the daylights out of G. Be sure to start the shuck in LA.
The biggest things though are to hold Persia and Karelia. Without Kar G’s income never gets high enough and it is much easier to beat her down. Defending a territory with 3 nations is easier than attacking it with 3 nations. This is how you hold Persia. Typically it will only cost you 2 russian inf on R2, on R3 usually nothing (if you feel like it UK can retake India on UK2 just to irritate Japan, it helps if you send your bomber to moscow if it lives on UK1), and on further turns can take anywhere from 0-3 Inf, and/or a US fighter or two (using algeria as a halfway point). In most games a 40ish IPC russia can hold back a 70ish IPC japan if persia is held. And G will be making little to no money with 5-6 bombers SBRing her every turn without the NOs.
Get the 10ipc Russian No.
I have yet to lose using Russia agressively, and without any bid.
Russia need to push hard and real toward Berlin.
Uk need to take/hold Baltic sea and cut down german supply routes so it cannot counter attack Russia effectively. Exemple, by trading Poland every turn. France is a great bonus if it can.
USA need to take Norway by turn 2, place an IC there rnd 3 and pump out warships to bolster UK fleet round 4. I facepalm myself everytime I see a UK player take Norway…
Thoses are basic moves. Once Russia reach 50 ipc, you got to get diced hard to lose.
@ Corbeau, even with regular dice, you will have a very hard time winning more than 50% of all games in a no bid, +NOs, no tech game, as allies.
I will gladly play against anyone with this setting. I don’t think you will find TripleA players in the unstable lobby who will play allies w/o any bids, regardless of LL or regular dice. In a single game, ofc, anything can happen… :-)
@Corbeau:
USA need to take Norway by turn 2, place an IC there rnd 3 and pump out warships to bolster UK fleet round 4. I facepalm myself everytime I see a UK player take Norway…
Thoses are basic moves. Once Russia reach 50 ipc, you got to get diced hard to lose.
How you do get Norway USA2 if the German bomber is on Norway after G1? Against the G opening I face most often, best case scenario is having 2 DDs to protect the USA tranny against the bomber (assuming there isn’t a fighter on Algeria, which there might be), unless I was placing my UK1 naval purchase in SZ 8. I suppose I could do that instead of 2…but the cost is giving up a UK threat to Finland and Karelia.
Good point about the utility of Norway as a naval factory.
If german Bomber is in Norway:
So, I’m not sure why you make Finland a priority on turn 2? For Karelia, If it’s not taken round 1, you can defend it round 2 with UK fighters or simply deadzoning it. A decent Russian player won’t have Germany holding Karelia firm by round 3 in any case.
But yes, if that bomber is there in Norway and is defended: Use sz8. Consolidate in sz 6 the next turn with new builds. You should really be happy if that bomber is there, as I mentioned Finland will suffer, Egypt will survive so UK/Russia are not in a bad shape.
Depends G could have still hit Egypt R1 without the bomber, I still do personally unless there is a bid unit there.
As far as the G bomber in finland, I typically don’t mind if it goes after the DD/Tranie, that is still a dicey fight for G and there are no units on the transport so you risk 15 IPCs of units against a 12 IPC unit, not that big of a deal to me.
With a bit more experience under my belt…time to resurrect this thread…
From what I can tell, in 41 a KGF can be either a ‘long-game’ or a short-game’ strategy…
While the ‘short game’ KGF (taking down Berlin/Rome before Moscow falls) is likely the best bet for an Allied win, a ‘long-game’ KGF is frequently called for against an elite player, and can work sometimes if everything falls into place.
The long-game KGF seems to require holding Persia and Poland, in order to gain and maintain the long-term economic advantage. Strats mentioned above like the Norway factory might help the long-game succeed (I’m undecided on this one myself).
The ‘short-game’ KGF, by contrast, is characterized by 3 tactics in particular…
The short-game KGF requires very aggressive Soviet play. For the ‘long-game’, Soviets have to worry more about defense (holding Persia and perhaps Ching) but also must help the Allies capture and hold Poland.
The long-game KGF seems to require holding Persia and Poland, in order to gain and maintain the long-term economic advantage. Strats mentioned above like the Norway factory might help the long-game succeed (I’m undecided on this one myself).
I think a factory in Nor is needed by either UK or US. It just really helps, particularly if you need to add a ship.
Also, you definitely need Poland. This cuts off Germany and frees up Russia since both UK and US can drop units directly into Pol.
As for Persia, if you can hold it then that is great, but deadzoning it might be enough. If you can get some US troops heading through Afr you might be able to hold, but at least with it deadzoned you can prevent Japan from linking up stacks in Kaz.
I think you still should probably play Russia aggressive early, but come mid game you need to decide if you can get the ‘short-game’ KGF win or if a ‘long-game’ is likely. A lot of this will depend on the German army in Fra/Berlin and how much of a threat is Japan. If Germany has a monster stack, I start to pull back the Russians and gradually replace them with UK/US forces, while Russia defends against Japan.
You can survive a long time (even if Japan is earning a ton) by not letting Japan merge its army into one super army and by cutting off Ger/Ita in the East. While you are ‘surviving’ you need to find a away to eventually crack Fra/Ger or Blk/Ita before Japan can take Cauc/Kaz or Mos. Sometimes this could lead to tedious build-ups or marching through all of Europe but can be done before a monster Japan can take Mos.
I also agree that ftrs help, a lot! Both UK and US should have a heavy supply, you’ll likely have a few ACs so having ftrs shouldn’t be too much of a problem. I’ll routinely try to have 4-6 UK ftrs (or total planes) and at least 6-8 US ftrs (or total planes). I’ll add in extra US ftrs continually if game circumstances allow it. A couple Russian ftrs are also nice. I start to add those in if I hit the big NO or if I ran into production problems due to SBRs earlier in the game.
Definitely hit Italy early and hard. She should be an axis liability by round 3 I reckon. Saves Africa and puts pressure on Germany.
For Russia (in a long game scenario) artillery is also good I think. Allow the germans to come reasonably close - but make sure by the time they arrive everything is deadzoned with inf/art stacks.
Also - once Italy is seriously out of the running - if you obliterate her navy that is enough, the USA can really turn to the Pacific. In the process of going after Italy she will have thrown a carrier, maybe a dd, ftrs, trannies into the Atlantic, so she will have the resources to start filing troops through Africa.
I think from that point on definitely go for Japan’s tail. Japan will be through China - and consuming USSR, but at that stage her navy may well also have left the Pacific open in response to your KIF strat - so you can go Island hopping…
I don’t quite follow why Persia is so strategic…does no one build a facility in India for UK anymore? just have the Russkies (with support) defend Persia??
Because any normal opening for Japan means an attack on Borneo and East Indies, killing indian fleet as well. This means that usually any India IC will be taken easily by Japan J2. Anyway, Japan starts with so much trannies that they can stomp India J3 as later if they really want
Japan should not play before UK. I think that the right order would be: Germany, USSR, UK, Italy, China, Japan, USA
I don’t quite follow why Persia is so strategic…does no one build a facility in India for UK anymore? just have the Russkies (with support) defend Persia??
Allot depends on what Germany has done on G1.
Did they buy all tanks? Did they attack Egypt? Are any UK units left alive there?
If Germany gives the allies some time by buying inf, and/or not attacking Egypt, then the allies might consider an IC for UK in India. USA would most likely need to come hard after Japan then to keep Japan from being able to focus all her might on taking the UK Indian IC.
This can be a very fine balance for the allies to employ. but if you can pull it off, it does seem to be a pretty strong game plan. Hope the russians defend well enough, they need to hold out until UK/USA assistance arrives
