A.A. gun question

@axis_roll:

One of the items in our house rules for AA50 (The Chicago Rules) is:

3)  Restricted Dardenelles straight:  Bulgaria is the only territory accessible via transport(s) in sz16

So the Sea zone is still open to ships, but only land accessible to Bulgaria.  Doesn’t remove the sea zone from play, but eliminates the Med drops into Caucasus and/or Ukraine

This is exactly as it should be…  :-D

@P@nther:

Guys, you have been misleaded … the OP thought it was a good idea to post his Anniversary-related question here in the Global forum.

@LHoffman:

Yes, I only posted it here because rules are similar and this board gets far more traffic than the Anniversary board.

It was fully disclosed as such when I posed it. If people read it before thinking they knew the answer, that would help.

@P@nther:

@taamvan:

You have 4 choices with every ship separately and independently …

This part is correct for every WWII edition at least back to and including Anniversary Edition.

Thank you. That is all I was asking.

The rules do not state this explicitly. Considering the naval retreat rule in which the attacker retreats with naval units and they all must go back to a single sea zone from which at least one ship came… I thought it plausible that a similar ‘all or nothing’ rule may apply here.

You have to wait until the Collect Income phase.

@Seidelin:

1. German troops in Belarus are attacked by 3 infantry from Russia and a fighter from Karelia. After the first round of combat are the troops allowed to retreat to Karelia?

No.

@Seidelin:

2. And same question if fighter came from Finland through Karelia?

No.

@Seidelin:

3. Can you retreat into a just captured territory?

Only if that territory was captured by a blitzing tank that moved into the battle being retreated from.  Blitzed territories change ownership immediately.

@Seidelin:

I mean if Ukraine is just conquered and attack in East Poland with some infantry from Poland and a fighter that attacked after flying over Ukraine. Are you then allowed to retreat to Ukraine?

No.

@Seidelin:

As I read the rules on page 19 all these should be allowed, since the rules say that for Sea units the zone must have been friendly since the start of the turn.

The rules say this:

Move all attacking land and sea units in that combat on the battle board to a single adjacent friendly space from which at least one of the attacking units moved.

The “attacking units” in this case refers to the land or sea units that are being moved.  It doesn’t include any air units, as they are not being moved at this point.  Air unit movement does not provide a retreat route.  This isn’t the best wording, so maybe an FAQ entry is called for.

I think it’s pretty clear how AA guns work from reading their unit profile in the Rulebook.  However, I agree that the defense value listed could be a bit misleading.  On the other hand, this value has been in place since Revised (we playtesters are so awful that we can actually go back in time and screw things up in the past  :roll:), and to my knowledge this is the first time that this question has ever been asked.  Maybe it would be better if the defense value value were listed as “Special”.

As for ICs, they’re defense is “NA” because they never fire under any circumstances, which is not true of AA guns.

@Krieghund:

Just as other ships may, submarines may also move out of a sea zone where they begin their turn with enemy ships, even destroyers.  The destroyer doesn’t stop the sub’s movement, as the sub didn’t enter the sea zone - it started off there.

Put that in the FAQ

@gamerman01:

@naturesprank:

Yeah, gamerman, I am aware of that most recent update. We don’t use it, since it negates much of the fun of getting HBs in the first place and we have been playing with the published rules for over a year. My playing group doesn’t always like to implement the updated rules errata that we come across. You shouldn’t need to access forums like these to play the game, so we usually use the OOB rules unless there is a conflict or complete misunderstanding.

Yeah, right on.

Unfortunately, there are quite a few ambiguities in the rulebook.  I have had to ask several different rules questions.  If you guys can’t agree on a rule, just post your question in the FAQ and errata thread under AA50, and you’ll have an answer in no time.  Probably not a bad idea to scan through that thread and see the answers to lots of questions…

True on all counts, and we have used that resource numerous times. Especially as pertains to subs, the OOB rules are very vague.

Even using the updated best-of 2 dice rule for HBs, the Americans can send a lot of heat toward the Rome, Berlin and Karelia ICs when not doing huge dmg to ITA or GER fleets. It’s nice to know that you will probably (89% on 2 HB) roll a minimum of 3 per HB during SBRs after risking them to AA. It might not seem like enough, but we seem to agree that the best early pressure US can exert on Ger is via SBR.  And getting HBs definitely helps with that. It, along with LR air, seem to have the biggest impact on our games.

Alright, thanks for the answer +karma :wink: