Unheralded facts about American health care

@Cmdr:

Anyway, you asked for my definition of “better.”

Better:  To be a better health care system it must have superior technology, superior medical knowledge, superior medicine, superior infant and elderly survival rates and/or superior disease and injury survival rates.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html

So I take it that Slovenia (#204 out of 222), which is exactly 2 less infant deaths/1000 births than us(#181), has superior technology, medical knowledge and medicine?

Or how about The Isle of Man, Jersey(not the state), Guernsey(cattle too?), Andorra, Anguilla, and Macau? Are they, like Slovenia, somehow superior to us?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html

Does it suprise you that many of the same countries that have lower infant mortality rates also have higher life expectancies than we do?

Does it likewise surprise you that despite your claim that our health care system is the best, we are only ranked 42nd best in infant mortality and 46th best in life expectancy?

Oh, look! Canada, who’s health care system has been your whipping boy of late, is ranked 33rd and 8th respectively. I believe that you mentioned the UK, Australia, New Zealand, and Germany, as well. Not surprisingly, they too outrank us in both categories.

If you want more than that, then the level of insurance you get is in direct proportion to the premium you pay a month.  In my case, I pay $52.50/wk to Blue Cross Blue Shield of Illinois ($2,730 per year) for nearly full coverage of everything imaginable for a family of four.  That covers $15 copay on doctor visits, 2 free check ups per year per adult, 1 free per year per child; two free dental cleanings per year; $15 copay on generic medication / $25 copay on name brand medication; emergency room care, two free ambulance rides per year, etc.  It’s really darn good coverage.

Is this a company sponsored health plan or you dealing directly with an insurance company?

Anyway, anyone who WANTS insurance can get insurance.  I never said it was free, but they have the ability to get it.  There are, of course, different levels of insurance.  Catastrophe insurance is free, doctors are required, by law, to do everything in their power to save life, limb or eyesight with or without insurance.  It matters not if you can pay for services rendered either.  They have to perform basic emergency services to save life, limb and eyesight.  So in that regards, everyone has insurance already.

Yes, but quite often those emergency services are too little too late when early preventative care would have been much more helpful but unavailable because of a person’s uninsured status. An uninsured person with a growing brain tumor can go to a free clinic to get some painkiller for the headache that won’t go away but good luck getting anything more until after they end up collapsing because the tumor has grown so big that it is now inoperable.

@Cmdr:

It is direct, out of pocket.  This is not a company plan.  The “company plan” was $90/wk which is ridiculous.  Dunno what was covered, I presume for $90/wk I get to send my husband off for a “massage therapy” with a “happy ending” because that was ridiculous.

That’s why I was asking because when I worked at Northop Grumman there were guys paying almost $200 for family coverage. Exactly what insurance company are you using, if I may ask?

As for your ridiculous example in an effort to make me look stupid (which makes you look kinda stupid and I know you’re better than that, U-505) you know perfectly well that taking one little aspect does not make up for major aspects.

So your Slovenia with 2 less infant deaths out of 1000 does not make up for superior medicine, superior medical knowledge, superior elderly survival rates, superior technology and superior disease and injury survival rates.

There is a reason I listed a whole bunch of things, it was primarily so wise guys didn’t try and pick a nation who happened to excel in one minor aspect and try to use it to debunk the entire, valid, theory.

I’m not going to go into who looks stupid and who doesn’t, but I will tell you that infant mortality and life expectancy rates are the primary indicators of health care competancy. So when you declare them minor indicators, I challenge you to find me better ones.

Furthermore, “life expectancy” encompasses disease survival and injury survival rates.

It still stands, our system is currently the best available system on the planet.  Not saying there is not a better system that can be devised, but currently, this is the best we’ve been able to figure out and implement.

Based on the infant mortality and life expectancy rates there are roughly 40 nations that can challenge your assuption.

And you can shout to the heavens about how superior our drugs, knowledge, and technology are, but if more of their babies are surviving birth and their people are living longer than ours, then obviously our so called superior system is failing somewhere.

(PS:  If we allowed computers to dictate who got what resources based on need and value of the individual, that would technically be a superior system, but it is also a very inhuman system.  I don’t think anyone wants to let their husband/wife’s treatment be determined based on what a computer thinks her value is to society and other cold, hard statistics.  But it would be a superior system to the one we currently have since we’d have superiority in all fields as well as superiority in using our resources to the maximum efficiency.)

That would be illegal as it is discriminatory. And it would also be impossible to devise an unbiased value system.

Jenn I am in Alabama and the closest VA facility is 60 miles away. Actual Tuskegee is about 20 or less but that facility was restricted to existing patients years and years ago. You would think with all the retirees around Columbus, Ga. there would be a closer facility but there isn’t.

No my treatment from the VA hasn’t been great, but something is better than nothing which is the option in my case. At my last job that was part time due to my disability. My insurance would have been more than my bring home. Actually it would have even been more than my gross.

Cheap insurance in this area runs around $70 week and that is single coverage. The average job pays around $10/hr. Digest that for a moment.

I think one of the greatest cost to our nation is never looked at in the health care debates. That is preventive care. With our system if you can not afford health insurance you will go untreated until it is a big enough crisis to result in a trip to the emergency room and a bill that will most likely be passed along to the insured or the tax payers. A cost that could have been prevented with preventive care.

@Uberlager:

@Cmdr:

Not really looking at GDP.  China owns the United States by owning our debt.  So how can we possibly be richer than they are?

GDP sure seems to me like an adequate measure of national wealth.  You’re also blowing our debt owned by China way out of proportion.  As of 11/08, China only owns 22% of our debt, or $682 billion.  How is 682 > 14,330???

@Cmdr:

Anyway, not saying our system is the best system possible, but it is better than the systems that are centrally controlled by an agency without competition. (Whether that is a government, a company or another single controlling agency)

Define “better”.

GDP is a good measure, but doesn’t capture the essence of the broad spectrum of problems of our economy. Jen is right, in a sense. China does not have crushing liabilities to deal with, like we do. China is not running up $400 billion trade deficits, like we have. China is not bogged down in two wars, as we are.

If we sold every asset in this country right now, we would not have the money to meet our S.S. and Medicare/Medical obligations. China is worried about GDP SLOWING to 5%. We are already experiencing NEGATIVE 6% GDP. Just think of it this way: who has the money to buy our debt these days?

Things aren’t rosy in China anymore.  The recession is hitting them too.  There is an article in the Fortune magazine issue that was just released about the current state of the economy in China.  I haven’t read the whole article, but analysts claim that GDP receded in Q4 2008 there.

Maybe we should start another thread on this issue since it is going off-topic.

China is doing a brisk business in exporting Lead metals and various forms of Bacteria. I got a package of paper plates and i swear it weighted 5 pounds.