Building Italian fleet - is there a point?

In my games, the UK and US players have never seen Italy as a big threat, so I have used the 1 inf 1 transport buy I1. The UK and US have been forever preoccupied with Big G in Europe, so Italy gets a free ride… for now at least.

@Fighter:

anyone tried a 1 inf + transporter build round one with italy?

then  perhaps supplementing it with a carrier and a fighter later one

Me. I think this is the best choice for Italy: move 2 cruisers and the transport to SZ 15 to take Egypt or Tans-Jordan and DON’T move the BB to protect the newly-built transport, and by the second turn you can unload 4 land units and use all shore bombardments. On the next turns, you have to buy some naval units to make italian fleet stronger: fleet is the unique weapon of the Italy and even its worst weak point…

great to read that someone else have tried this approach and that it is okay viable.

an 20+ italian beast i dreadfull for UK when we reach round 3 or 4 where the queen’ forces arn’t what the used to be and her income at a very reasonable level in the axis’ eyes ~26-28 max.

i know that there have been a couple of posts regarding techs for italy, but in this context with a navy “heavy” italy, do any of you use a 5 or 10’r for a couple of tech dices now that you have the cash to splash on it or is the money being invested straight into hardware?

I like the second transport on Italy 2 when you can park your fleet in SZ 14 and dump reinforcements into Libya.  It also gives you a chance to see what America and England are doing.

Other things I’ve done is just not buy anything on Italy one and buy a Carrier, Transport and stuff on Italy 2 when you have 24+ IPC

jen_fun_10rus.AAM

I was thinking of saving up, as Jennifer said, but I normally feel pressured to go all out and just buy as many units as possible with any money I have.

Want to hear about this……last games…The U.K navy near gibraltar…1 dd et 1 cruiser…if still alive…they attack the Italian Navy with 1 bomber and 1 plane. If they succeed…The Italian Navy cannot be rebuild. This can be very good For U.K. Did you guys saw that in one of your games?

I got some ideas but…

• Destroy with Germany those 2 boats but you cant destroy the bb and tranny near iceland
  or
• Take Egypt frist turn wich can save the italian navy but cannot loose chance to destroy properly the uk navy in atlantic

You guys have other ideas?..Thoughts?

For Italy to have options and be a factor, a fleet is critical. Save a few dollars first turn so that a carrier can be purchased 2nd turn. Another transport will come later. If you’re playing with NO’s then a 3rd turn battleship will really cause problems, before the US player’s 3rd turn he’s facing a Med. fleet of 2 battleships, 2 cruisers, 1 carrier and 2 fighters (1 German). Add a a transport, destroyer and a sub the next couple of turns and you can threaten London, and Washington. This is especially important if the US is focused on the powerful Japanese in the Pacific. If Italy loses their fleet early, you’ll be stuck sticking 3 infantry into France every turn and that’s not a lot of fun.

he U.K navy near gibraltar…1 dd et 1 cruiser…if still alive…they attack the Italian Navy with 1 bomber and 1 plane.

Yeah, you must kill that fleet in sz12 on G1 for this reason. At the very least, you need to kill one of ships, because you can’t guarantee that the Egypt fighter will be killed. Even if you bring the bomber to Egypt, that fighter is still ~20% to survive. With a dd, ca, ftr, and bmr attacking the Italian fleet on UK1, they have about an even shot at taking it out, which will cripple the Axis.

I’d say sz12 is a higher priority than the BB in sz2. You can do both, but then it’s a little thin and sacrifices must be made elsewhere. I’d rather have the bomber go to Egypt than to sz2, so I’m thinking its probably better to leave the BB alone on G1.

I think there are basically 3 really good options for what to buy on I1:

1. 1 fighter
2. 1 transport, 1 infantry
3. nothing; save 10 IPC

My standard has been to buy the fighter. As long as Germany attacks Egypt (with the bomber), you can be reasonably sure that Italy will get collect both NOs on their first turn, giving them 21-23. So you don’t need to save for the carrier on I2, you’ll have the cash. With the fighter buy, you’ll have the carrier loaded as soon as its built, instead of having to “borrow” a fighter from Germany. Plus you can use the second fighter on I2 if need be.

The trans + inf buy is my preferred one, since it gets land units into Africa as quickly as possible. But it depends on what the UK does on their turn. If they have bombers, I’d rather not split my fleet up to protect the transport, so I wouldn’t buy it in this case since the fleet will be in sz15 at the end of I1. However, I find that often the UK loses its bomber on their first turn when they clear out the German Baltic fleet (so they can land both fighters on a carrier). In this case, as long as the Egyptian fighter isn’t still hanging around, nothing will be in range of the transport so you can go ahead and buy it without worry.

Lastly, saving your income could be good if the fleet is being threatened by bombers and you want to plop down multiple ships at once for protection when you return to sz14.

If Itlay has no navy they have no IPC’s. Africa is lost and enemy warships will soon patrol the Med. The fleet is a must but never leave the Med. or its death is certain……unless of course there’s a chance to take London, but that doesn’t happen often. My first priority with Italy is to always build a strong navy in order to be a factor throughout the game. In Revised the the German battleship in the Med. was a key unit, in Anniversary they give you an even stronger naval presence - use it.

my last FTF game, italy pimped up ts navy to no effect. it was a long strategic game, neither side taking big risks. in games like this i feel its just a waste of IPCs. because USA/UK can always and will allways outprouduce any western axis naval attempts. this might change if USA is pacific only. then an Italian fleet which UK has to sink alone could turn out to be a combined threat with a strong german luftwaffe in france.

the best use for italian navy  ive found is either a well-timed  attack on some allied sz12 fleet , so that luftwaffe can take out leftovers, or on a rare occasion it prooved quite useful in Yellow Sea, after an US  hulk smash :D

Should the I-Ties build 2 carriers for deffese and be supplied extra fighters form Japan and or germany. A 2 AC 1 BB 2-3 CR fleet with 2 trasports in the Meditreainan with acess to the Indian ocean would help alot and if the Japanesse have 5 or more carriers the should keep one in the Indian to reinforce the I-Ties if needed.

2 ac for italy? id always  prefer  6 inf, 2arm over 2 ac …

I also support a carrier purchase for Italy.  While yes the Western Allies can build more ships and eventually overwhelm the Italian navy, the purchase of the carrier gives Italy some more time in Africa where it’s money and NO’s are and it forces the W. Allies TO make the investment in the additional forces needed to overwhelm the Italian navy.

I prefer destroyers/subs as I feel the best way to keep the allies away from africa is to be able to destroy there fleet if they try it using italy to soften them up and the germans to finish the job if needed.  By then the Japs can have an AC+ there to defend a rebuild or the already built trannies if needed.

In my first game of AA50, I built 1 tran and 1 inf for italy.  the next turn, i built a destroyer.  Germany actually cut and run from africa, leaving my 2 inf to get smashed by england from egypt, and the US hit Operation Torch all on round 1.  Yet, the units i landed w/ ship and air support held off successive waves of US and British forces.

Given the fact that the allies had bad leadership, they were still ubber aggressive on the KGF strategy.  What eventually helped me win North Africa w/o NOs (the game ended in Moscow before African conquest) was my naval supremacy in the Med.  Yes, UK eventually got pissed enough to take his whole fleet and smash mine, thus I never built that carrier I was saving for, but NorAf was mine!

The game was pretty crazy.  Germany threw everything at Russia, even letting Paris get liberated twice in the game.  Of course, Germany always took it back next turn, with no real loss in IPC, only gains for allies.

Japan as in all KGF games absorbed Asia.

My point w/ Italy is that a good fleet gives it operational maneuver.  Even with inferior land forces, Italy decides when and where it wants to fight in North Africa.

Honestly an Italian fleet is a very necessary thing to build for without it the Allies can invade Africa without fear thus cutting Italy off at the knees.  I started out with the extra transport on I2 so I could threaten Russia or dump troops in Libya when the Allies show up, but I’m starting to think a CV on I2 is a better way to go.  Save just enough IPC’s so that your I2 purchase is a Carrier and for god sakes keep that fighter alive to land on it.  After that continue to build up the fleet with DD’s and SS’s as necessary while securing Africa and helping the Germans with Garrison duty in France.  This gives the Germans more troops to send East, keeps Africa longer to keep UK poor, and forces the Allies to build a fleet to come after Italy with which is expensive.  Each turn the Allies are focused on your fleet is one less turn of production against the Germans which they need for the first couple turns.

If this can be achieved then all you have to do is worry about Germany’s assualt on Russia and Japans ability to get through India and then also on to Russia.  You need the fleet to hold Africa and Germany needs your fleet to keep the Allies busy so for god’s sake build ships and pray for a decent German player backing you up.

Why not just send a Jap carrier over there?  It can get there by turn 3, plus build Navy as needed where Italy is kind of straped for cash.

being a big fan og italian fleet myself i thought i wanted to share an experience from my last game. The US was so fortunate to avhieve heavy bombers (and long range aircraft two rounds later), but from an italian perspective heavy bombers is bad…VERY bad. I you play against US and they get heavy bombers, I would not recomend buying more fleet - not even carriers as they benefit for allies is too big if you can kill the italian movement by destroying their fleet.