Yes, its a sick joke from WOTC, now you can play Axis of the Evil, never mind Italy just place the new brown pieces in Persia.
I thought they would have had the triple fasces as well. I just thought is was another Italian related icon.
For example Germany could have gome with the Iron Cross, swastika or the imperial eagle as appropriate marker icons.
Don’t the A&A mini’s use the triple fasces as well?
Yes, its a sick joke from WOTC, now you can play Axis of the Evil, never mind Italy just place the new brown pieces in Persia.
LMFAO!!
In the picture at boardgamegeek, the Italian simbol has the green outside and the red inside and could be considered correct. I do not know if the marker in the boxes shipped have the same order or have the colours inverted.
Regarding the symbol with three fasces: seldom the fasces was an ancient simbol used in the Roman Republic to indicate the consul power it has been associated to the Mussolini dictatorship, so in Italy it is prohibited like the swastika in German, so I believe that is hat not be used for the same reason. In fact the German marker is black cross that is quite similar to the real simbol used by the Wehrmacht but it is not the same. Also Japan marker is not the Japanese Flag (that is equal to the actual flag) marker but really is the combat flag of the Japanese Imperial Navy.
Yes, its a sick joke from WOTC, now you can play Axis of the Evil, never mind Italy just place the new brown pieces in Persia.
Eeeh! That menaces my shiny India IC strat! Stop that! Go back to your century! :lol:
mmm. I have made some research. Richter von Manthofen was almost correct in his objection.
The marker with red outside and green inside was used by Royal Italian Airforce (Regia Aereonautica) up to 1936 when it was replaced by the simbol with the three fasces, that was the symbol used during the war.
After the war in Italy we used both versions of the simbol. Aereonautica Militare (Italian Airforce) uses a roundel with red outside and green inside. The roundel with green ouside and red inside is used in many other situation, really, but have less to do with Italian Armed Forces. For example the football team that won the Coppa Italia show this on ot shirt woth a roundel with green outside and red inside.
Richter von Manthofen, excuse me for my preceding post.
The Italian markers (I assume they should represent Italy) use the IRANIAN Air Force Roundel.
the Italian used a triple fasces - symbol and the Italian (true) roundel has the red outside and green innermost, not as depicted in this game ;)
Well the flag of the Italian Social Republic was a tricolor with green and red on the outside, with out without a fascist eagle (that denoted a war flag).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_RSI.svg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Social_Republic
So while the roundel they used was not the best choice, it isn’t exactly inappropriate either.
@Rakeman:
The Italian markers (I assume they should represent Italy) use the IRANIAN Air Force Roundel.
the Italian used a triple fasces - symbol and the Italian (true) roundel has the red outside and green innermost, not as depicted in this game ;)
Well the flag of the Italian Social Republic was a tricolor with green and red on the outside, with out without a fascist eagle (that denoted a war flag).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_RSI.svg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Social_RepublicSo while the roundel they used was not the best choice, it isn’t exactly inappropriate either.
Rakeman,
One small point, when I was doing the PlayersAid maps, I discounted this symbol because it did not become effective until after the game starts 1941, (1943-1945 for the german puppet Italian state.) So, I added the Royal Seal and later the Fascist three Fasces symbol. The military split loyality to the king, and Il Duce. I have read Regia Marina preference to the King, stonewalling Il Duce’s orders, which were frequently misunderstood-LOL. Somebody, who is better read, please jump in here and provide some additional light.
It appears as if everyone is right. In WWI, the Italian roundel was green on the outside and red inside. However, after the fascist triple fasces, if appears to have reversed. I personally would have enjoyed the triple fasces roundel(i think each nation should have historically accurate roundels), but I am fine with the one included. It is linked to the Italians, and it seems to have been copied by the Iranians.
Here are some extra roundel designs that I made a while back, in case anyone wants to use them. :-D
For my WW2 Italians I used the triple Fasces with a red and green band around it. There is also a WW1 style Italian roundel in there, for fans of Victor Emmanuel ;)
Here are some extra roundel designs that I made a while back, in case anyone wants to use them. :-D
For my WW2 Italians I used the triple Fasces with a red and green band around it. There is also a WW1 style Italian roundel in there, for fans of Victor Emmanuel ;)
Just what I needed, for my next map,
thanks kindly Black Elk.
Well first, May I use these Rondels on my map,
of course credit would be given for your work.
I am still learning, using Gimp2, so the next map is going to be basic bit map, which I am co working to a higher quality vector model, attempting to see what I can afford in the vector world.
I am still way behind you an IL on the skill and quality chart,
but having fun bumbling along the learning path.
'quick question if you or IL have the time, which file format is best for doing print work?
PDF or PNG… but if you use Illustrator make sure you hit control shift and “O” to make the fonts in outline mode. Also clip the excess by masking off the other crap or the printer may ‘shift’ the print slightly left or right because he wont have a blank space to use as his boundary. Sometimes the printers cut it in the wrong place if you don’t do this.
Sorry, but the Italian roundel is TOTALLY inappropriate, as it was used only by the ALLIED Italian air force after the country switched sides in 1943.
It should be the fasces symbol beyond dispute.
However much of a git Mussolini may have been, his regime wasn’t in the same league of evil as Hitler’s and Stalin’s, so to ban the fasces and still use the hammer and sickel is just plain daft.
Or is it really all about who ended up on the winning side…
Flashman, here in Italy we have a strange situation.
The fasces is a simbol that cannot be used. Fascist party and all its symbols and ideologies are strictly forbidden by our constitution. However, hammer and sickel are used without problem.
I agree with you that Hitler dictatorship and Stalin regime were both evil government, but as you said History is written by winners.
However, after my preceding wrong observation I have made some investigation about Italian symbol.
Forst roundel ever used by Italy as military mark for aircrafts was in first world war, a roundel red outside, and green inside, used on fighter wings. It was changed in 1918 as green outside and red inside. It was changed again in 1936, becoming the roundel with three fasces inside. Up to 1943 it was used by aircrafts. The Navy and the Army, used as mark the banner with the Savoia red shield (the one on the left in the Black_Elk pictures may be suitable).
After 1943 the Salò Republic, the norhern part of Italy that continued to fought with Germany, used a three colored banner with an Eagle in the center.
After the war the roundel selected for military marking is red outside and green inside. The justification is that if you take the Italian banner and wrap it around the pole you will have a cilinder red outside, green inside with white in the middle.
Sorry, but the Italian roundel is TOTALLY inappropriate, as it was used only by the ALLIED Italian air force after the country switched sides in 1943.
It should be the fasces symbol beyond dispute.
However much of a git Mussolini may have been, his regime wasn’t in the same league of evil as Hitler’s and Stalin’s, so to ban the fasces and still use the hammer and sickel is just plain daft.
Or is it really all about who ended up on the winning side…
Well, the green outside/red inside roundel was used by the Italians in WWI (again, as part of the Allies/Detente). But it totally agree with you. I think if the hammer and sickle is used in the game, all historically accurate insignias should be used for what is an incredibly accurate WWII game. I know that this would hurt sales in places like Germany and Italy(due to banned party imagery), but its already pretty clear Avalon Hill doesn’t give a hoot about AA. This would not be a endorsement of the Nazi or Fascist Parties; rather it would be an honest reproduction of who was fighting in this war, and what idealogies were being We can pretend Nazis and Fascists didn’t exist, but sadly many brave people died to stop their evil from spreading.
