Subs and Destroyers

Some optional play for 1914 fans.

Modified rule 12/22/17 to denote that 8 markers are given to each side for play.

1914_German_sub_patrols.jpg

Too bad.
1914 players deserve a place of their own to read all related threads more easily.

I’m pretty sure some players would find many interesting ideas and an easier access than to read them than scrolling through this mess or using Google search which 50% of time bring up pages which have a different interface than regular blue colored forum pages.

I’m usually scrolling until I found  a link starting with www.org…., but sometimes it doesn’t work.
So, I have to check the date of the last quote and make a guess about which pages of this forum it is until I find it. Takes sometimes 10 to 15 minutes, other time I abandoned and try different keywords expecting that a www.org… will appear.

Nice try, but the problem with house rules is they unbalance the game. Who will buy trannies anymore when you can put infantry on destroyers ? You must then change cost and abilities to the whole shebalong of units, in order to rebalance it, so now you got a brand new game, the A&A Carolina edition.  :-D

just for some historical facts, I happen to know about 2 incidents where infantry used destroyers for transport. First was the amphibious assault on Norway 9. april 1940. A German destroyer with a crew of 360 sailors could take 200 infantry as cargo. For the attack on Narvik, 2000 Austrian infantry that was part of an mountain division, did sail on 10 destroyers, from Germany to Narvik in Northern Norway. Their first problem was they could not make an amphibious assault against a well defended shore. They had to debark at a port like passengers from a liner. And the only reason they succeeded debarking at Narvik was the Norwegian officer in command at Narvik was a pro Hitler Nazi. Their other problem was that all heavy equipement and supply had to come on trannies. So there are no way around a tranny. Their last problem was that after 9 days under deck the fighting spirit was low, so they would need a couple of days to recover. There are a reason the Allies made Landing Crafts for the Normandy invasion. Another issue conserning your game is that an average A&A infantry unit is supposed to represent an army of 100 000 men or something, not 2000 men. A rule like this could work in a tactical level game, but now so much in a grand strategy game like A&A. But with that said, this was actually an optional rule in the A&A Revised edition from 2004.

Oh, and the other example I know is the Dunquirk evacuation after the fall of Belgium, this is also in 1940. The myth says it was a fleet of civilian sailboats, rafts and canoes that lifted 350 000 british infantry from the beach over to UK. The fact is, it was 20 british destroyers that did the job.

So to make a house rule that got a link to the real war, I say a destroyer got the ability to ferry, or bridging, one infantry unit across one or two sea zones in the combat phase only, either as amphibious assaulting an empty enemy territory, or if its not empty let the defender roll a preemptive strike, and if the infantry on the destroyer survive, he can attack. Or for a Dunkirk evac, let one defending infantry retreat via a friendly destroyer, even if this last suggestion is blatantly cheesy

@Admiral:

Hi Baron,

I know it’s been a while since you posted this, but I have been toying with the idea of increasing air-to-air combat in a way that is very similar to what you have presented here.

I think the A2 D2-3 C6 Fighter is a very interesting idea. Having them target other air units before anything else is a simple and effective way to simulate that air-to-air combat. I also like how the combat values would now be the same in SBR (makes things simple).

I also really like how you altered Tactical Bombers to be A2-4 D3 C8. The two attack bonuses really give meaning to the importance to air supremacy.

I am curious to know how these two units have worked for you.

Thanks!

It evolves into this roster:
Baron’s HR units charts and set-up for 1941, 1942.2 and AA50
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=36833.msg1469053#msg1469053

The main reason is because of too many combined arms and bonus for TcBs and Fgs.
Makes for longer combat round and more details to consider to get the correct bonus per combat round.
Since the point was about hitting directly other planes, I simplified the TcB special ability.
That way, combined arms is now reserved to ground units.
So, it is easier to focus on what is specific to Fg and TcB.
I always start combat rounds with preemptive AAA, then these two units (when present) fire, then all other units.
HTH.
Baron

@Zombie69:

Even though I don’t like house rules in general, I like the OP house rule in conjunction with the HR that allows submerging after one round against DD. The first HR makes subs a little weaker (can’t be used as fodder against planes) while the second makes them stronger (by letting them survive more battles). All in all, I think it balances out. It also has the advantage of being elegant and easy to use.

Glad you see it that way.
A still more simplified HR could be that keeping all OOB DDs rules with Subs and planes, each sides which have Destroyers must say whether or not Subs will be targeted in priority by planes.
If not, then anything but subs must be selected as planes casualties (unless their is nothing else except transports) by the owning player.

I made a small but significant modification (written red) in the first post about Subs vs Battleship in 1942 version to increase balance toward the new Subs and for historical reason.

Battleship in G40 and 1942 seems the same at first glance but are far more potent in 1942:
BB A4D4M2C20, takes 2 hits, can bombard @4.

In 1942, Battleship unit recover from damage after any attacking player’s turn. So, in a whole 5 players turn. They could recover up to 4 times from a battle.
The owning Axis player’s attack turn and the 3 Allied attack turns.

In G40, BB can only be repaired once in a whole turn, at the beginning of the owning player’s turn. In addition, you need to move it near a Naval Base before it can be repaired in another turn. So, in this case, it becomes fully operational only 2 turns after being damage.

Compared to the 1942 BB immediate recovery in any Sea-Zone.
G40 BB is clearly a much weaker unit.

By the way, that’s another reason why I consider that BB cost for G40E should be put at 18 IPCs when Cruiser is put at 10 IPCs.

In addition, all BattleCalc simulations show clearly that a balance battle between BB, CA, DD imply this ratio: 1 BB vs 1 CA+1 DD

@Bierwagen:

Hey Axis_Roll – where can I find more discussion on the AARE ruleset?

The rules are a sticky here in A&A.org in this house rules section.
Much more discussion of Enhanced rules and game in progress are at the Gleemax/WOTC site: http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=747

Unfortunately, the powers that be at WOTC have choosen to end Gleemax sometime in September.  This comes less than one year after they shut down new posts from the OLD AH boards.  http://boards.avalonhill.com/forumdisplay.php?f=29

There’s lots of good discussions back on the AH boards.

So, DD & SS are separated out from the rest combat and this warfare is accomplished first.  Then Air Combat.  Then fleet warfare.

yes and its on your naval combat sequence player aid.  sub interaction,then survivors allocate air units and they fight concurrently with ongoing naval actions.