Favorite WWII Ship

@barnee said in WWII Mohawk Code-Talkers:

@CWO-Marc

On a side note, the Tlingit’s were/are badasses. They kicked ass on the russians and were hired to pack 200lb packs up the chilkoot trail. They all seem to be naturally strong. Probably weeded out the weak genes long ago : )

I saw something similar in a 1950s US Army film about the Korean War, part of which showed UN troops employing locals as porters to haul impressively large loads of supplies and equipment up steep trails to hilltop positions.

Another example of a simple-yet-sophisticated solution which the Americans used to address a WWII problem was the Marston Mat, which was conceptually similar to those Meccano construction sets for kids. It required heavy industry to manufacture it in the required huge quantities, but the device itself was mechanically straightforward: standardized sheets of steel mesh which could be laid down in an interlocking pattern, at whatever length and width was desired, to construct runways for aircraft in places where they were needed in a hurry, or in remote locations like Alaska and the Pacific Islands. The Marston Mat, combined with the use of heavy equipment like backhoes and bulldozers – which were commonplace in the US civilian construction industry – and chainsaws, allowed the Navy’s SeaBees (in the Pacific) and the Army’s Corps of Engineers (in Alaska) to turn an area of wilderness into an operational runway in just a few days.

The Battle of the Coral Sea fought from 4–8 May 1942, was a major naval battle between the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) and naval and air forces from the United States and Australia, taking place in the Pacific Theater of World War II. The battle is historically significant as the first action in which aircraft carriers engaged each other, as well as the first in which neither side’s ships sighted or fired directly upon the other.

In an attempt to strengthen its defensive position in the South Pacific, Japan decided to invade and occupy Port Moresby (in New Guinea) and Tulagi (in the southeastern Solomon Islands). The plan to accomplish this was called Operation MO, and involved several major units of Japan’s Combined Fleet. These included two fleet carriers and a light carrier to provide air cover for the invasion forces. It was under the overall command of Japanese Admiral Shigeyoshi Inoue.

The U.S. learned of the Japanese plan through signals intelligence, and sent two United States Navy carrier task forces and a joint Australian-American cruiser force to oppose the offensive. These were under the overall command of American Admiral Frank J. Fletcher.

On 3–4 May, Japanese forces successfully invaded and occupied Tulagi, although several of their supporting warships were sunk or damaged in surprise attacks by aircraft from the U.S. fleet carrier Yorktown. Now aware of the presence of U.S. carriers in the area, the Japanese fleet carriers advanced towards the Coral Sea with the intention of locating and destroying the Allied naval forces. Beginning on 7 May, the carrier forces from the two sides engaged in airstrikes over two consecutive days. On the first day, the U.S. sank the Japanese light carrier Shōhō; meanwhile, the Japanese sank a U.S. destroyer and heavily damaged a fleet oiler (which was later scuttled). The next day, the Japanese fleet carrier Shōkaku was heavily damaged, the U.S. fleet carrier Lexington critically damaged (and later scuttled), and Yorktown damaged. With both sides having suffered heavy losses in aircraft and carriers damaged or sunk, the two forces disengaged and retired from the battle area. Because of the loss of carrier air cover, Inoue recalled the Port Moresby invasion fleet, intending to try again later.

Although a tactical victory for the Japanese in terms of ships sunk, the battle would prove to be a strategic victory for the Allies for several reasons. The battle marked the first time since the start of the war that a major Japanese advance had been checked by the Allies. More importantly, the Japanese fleet carriers Shōkaku and Zuikaku – the former damaged and the latter with a depleted aircraft complement – were unable to participate in the Battle of Midway (the following month) while Yorktown did participate, ensuring a rough parity in aircraft between the two adversaries and contributing significantly to the U.S. victory in that battle. The severe losses in carriers at Midway prevented the Japanese from reattempting to invade Port Moresby from the ocean and helped prompt their ill-fated land offensive over the Kokoda trail. Two months later, the Allies took advantage of Japan’s resulting strategic vulnerability in the South Pacific and launched the Guadalcanal Campaign; this, along with the New Guinea Campaign, eventually broke Japanese defenses in the South Pacific and was a significant contributing factor to Japan’s ultimate defeat in World War II.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Coral_Sea

In the terms of the Pacific War, how did this battle change the shape of the campaign before the battle of Midway?
How do you guys think Midway would have went if the Japanese carriers Shokaku and Zuikaku were present at the battle alongside the other carriers?
Neither side saw each other during this battle and yet it happened.
Pretty much declared a draw, what do you guys think?

@Der:

Mine was probably one of the books in the Time-life series published about WWII.

Same, my Great-Grandfather had a bunch of those Time-life books that he gave to me.

Here’s a weapon which could more properly be described as “low-profile” rather than underrated: the proximity-fused anti-aircraft artillery shell.  Proximity fuses were essentially miniature radar sets, built small enough to fit in a shell and tough enough to withstand the tremendous kick of being fired from a gun.  They were quite a technical achievement and they increased the chance that a shell would bring down an airplane even if it didn’t hit it directly.  The Americans kept the proximity fuse very hush-hush; if I recall correctly, it was restricted to being used at sea, where unexploded shells couldn’t be recovered by the enemy and studied for their secrets.

Another effective weapon whose details were kept secret from the American public was the shaped-charge warhead.  I own a laminated WWII magazine advertisement page which tells Americans about a revolutionary new anti-armour weapon called the bazooka; it makes the point that GIs are finding it very effective against German tanks, but it adds that the exact details of how it works and what it looks like can’t be revealed.  As it happens, the Germans knew all about the Munroe Effect (discovered as far back as the 19th century) and had their own shaped-charge anti-tank weapon: the Panzerfaust.  An amusing example of the public on your side being kept in the dark more than the military people on the enemy side.

@Epiphany:

That all sounds blood awesome!  You clearly spent a lot of time working out the details and they sound really cool.

At the end of your post you were mentioning that British ships can get higher anti-aircraft tech than Soviet or Axis ships.  Does each nation have specific tech limits for all technologies available?  And are there land-based anti-aircraft technologies? If so, how does Germany stack up?  You mentioned in previous posts about the “big deal” that aircraft represent in the game, so having or not having technology related to shooting stuff down seems important.

How do aircraft carriers work?  Do they come with their own assigned aircraft, or can you field upgraded naval air units?  Or would that merely upgrade the aircraft carrier itself?  So many games, the aircraft carrier, and all ships in general, are just simple units with simple stats.  Are there light carriers, escort carriers and fleet carriers with varying stats for each country?  Can any country build them?  Could Germany for instance, field a massive carrier fleet?

You said China produces no EU’s for the first 5 turns.  Does this mean China only has what it starts the game with for five turns?  Or does it still have PU’s to build units with?  Also, do you have to spend everything every round or can you accumulate EU’s or PU’s and spend them when you want to?

I’m glad you like what you’ve heard! :)

In answer to your question, there’s a general tech tree, and there are nation-specific techs. Each nation has a list of the techs from the general tech tree it’s allowed to research. For example, Germany can research higher up the infantry part of the tech tree than anyone else; Britain and the U.S. can research higher up the artillery part of the tech tree, and so on.

In answer to your question about China: its lack of EUs means it cannot research or industrialize early in the game. But it starts with an income of 12 PUs and 10 MPs. Its light infantry cost 1 MP each, so it can buy 10 light infantry a turn, plus 12 PUs a turn of artillery or fighters. In answer to your other question: you don’t have to spend everything every round. Unspent resources get carried over to the next round.

The primary way to defend against enemy aircraft is with fighter aircraft of your own. Fighters are specialized for one role, and one role only: shooting down enemy planes. Their anti-naval and anti-ground combat values are very limited. If you were engaged in a carrier war, for example, some of the planes on your carriers would probably be fighters (to shoot down enemy aircraft), and some would be torpedo bombers (decent at shooting down enemy aircraft, great at sinking enemy ships). You’d use your fighters to destroy enemy torpedo bombers before they could take out your ships! Or you could use your fighters against the enemy’s fighters, in an effort to protect your own torpedo bomber force.

You build aircraft separately from aircraft carriers. You can land up to two planes on a normal aircraft carrier, and up to four planes on a fleet carrier. Upgrading your carrier fleet from regular carriers to fleet carriers is relatively straightforward from a technological perspective. However, fleet carriers cost 28 PUs, compared to just 18 for regular carriers. Fighters, dive bombers, and torpedo bombers can land on regular carriers. Fleet carriers can handle these planes as well. In addition, jet fighters and jet fighter-bombers can land on fleet carriers. Strategic bombers and jet flying wings cannot land on any kind of carrier.

The rules set does not currently contain AA guns as separate playing pieces; though I’m half tempted to add them in. Currently, advances in artillery technology improve the land combat value of your artillery, and give your artillery anti-air combat value as well. If I were to include AA guns, they would be like regular artillery, except with a weaker anti-land combat value, and a better AA value. Unlike Britain and the U.S., Germany cannot research advanced proximity fuse. This means its artillery will not have the same anti-ground or anti-air values that American and British artillery have. But even though Germany’s artillery ceiling is third-best, that ceiling is still good and high.

Speaking of Germany, below is more of the list I’d promised.

Germany

Blood and Iron. German infantry have three hitpoints. (As opposed to two hitpoints for most other nations’ infantry.)

Blitzkrieg. If Germany is engaged in a land battle, and if its opponent decides to withdraw its land force from that land battle, Germany gets to multiply the land combat value of its tanks and planes by a factor of two when firing on that land force.

Crush communism. During the collect income phase of each turn, Germany receives a free manpower point for each formerly Soviet territory it controls. (Limit 4 MPs per turn.)

Fortress Europe. Blockhouses have 4 hitpoints, receive +1 to their land combat value, and cost 3 PUs each.

Bismarck. Your battleships receive +7 to hitpoints and +2 to their naval combat value.

Heavy artillery. Your artillery receive +1 to their land combat value.

Speer’s industrialization. During the industrialize phase, Germany may upgrade seven of its cities for free. In addition, Germany receives one free advancement in Industrial Technology each turn. Speer’s industrialization ceases to provide additional benefits to Germany after the first five turns of the game.

Goettingen laboratory. Germany has a research center in Hanover. This research center provides 10 EUs a turn, has 40 hitpoints, and may not be targeted unless Hanover has been destroyed.

Custom technology available for research

Panther tank (may not be researched before round 2). Researching this tech causes the following to happen. 1) You automatically receive the techs battle tanks level 1 - level 5, even if you do not have the prerequisites for that tech. 2) your battle tanks receive +1 to hitpoints. 3) Each additional battle tank tech costs one less EU to research. Cost: 7 EUs.

King tiger. (You must have previously researched battle tanks level 7.) Researching this technology causes you to receive the techs heavy tanks level 1 - level 3, even if you do not have the prerequisites. Cost: 4 EUs.

E-series tanks (may not be researched before round 8.) Medium tanks (E-25s) now cost 4 PUs, battle tanks (E-50s) cost 7 PUs to build, and heavy tanks (E-75s) cost 11 PUs to build. Heavy tanks receive +2 to hitpoints and +1 to land combat value. Cost: 7 EUs.

Me 262. (May not be researched before round 3.) Researching this technology causes you to receive jet engines levels 1 - 4, jet fighters levels 1 - 7, and jet fighter-bombers levels 1 - 2, even if you lack the prerequisites for these technologies. Cost: 9 EUs.

Underground factories: it takes 50 hits to reduce one of your cities by one size. Cost: 3 EUs.

Improved optics (may not be researched before round 7.) Adds +0.5 to the land combat value of German infantry, +1 to the land combat value of German artillery and medium tanks, +2 to the land combat value of German battle tanks, and +4 to the land combat value of German heavy tanks. Cost: 5 EUs.

Infrared illumination and targeting. (May not be researched before round 8.) Adds +0.5 to the land combat value of German infantry, +1 to the land combat value of German artillery and medium tanks, +2 to the land combat value of German battle tanks, and +4 to the land combat value of German heavy tanks. Cost: 7 EUs.

I found a hypothetical scenario that pitted the Richelieu & Jean Bart against the 11" KM battlecruisers…suprisingly it was ugly for the French.  The scenario claimed to be using the Dunkerque and Strasbourg with 13" guns, but looking “under the hood” they were actually using the Jean Bart/Richelieu and their 15" guns.  Since the editor doesn’t work for me I did text edits to put in the actual French BC’s with their appropriate arms, ammunition quantities, and hull/flotation hit points.

The French get mauled!  It isn’t even close after playing it from both sides several times.  (No wonder the designer fudged in French BB’s with BC names…it was an attempt to balance the scenario.)  The heavier armour belt/turrets of the German boats seem to handle the 13" French guns, while the fast firing 11" German guns soon take out the turrets and/or magazine of the French ships.  In about 1/4 of the engagements one of my French boats pulled a “Hood” early in the exchange from about 13,000 yards (where the Kriegsmarine ships couldn’t even identify her yet but were reliably hitting.)  Boom! went the entire magazine.

I don’t know if there is some sort of artificial difference in the 3D model, if it is a reflection of the gunnery bonus for the Germans in the game, a particular range band, or even the 5.9" secondary guns of the KM scoring (vs. 5.1" for the French), but those quad turrets and thinner belt are proving a very brittle instrument of war.

And after you knock out the French guns, the stern chase is a breeze for the Germans!

I played WaW once. Didn’t like it much. But I’ll give it another try if you think it is worth it.
  What do you like about it?
  Crazy Ivan