It arrived!

@Funcioneta:

Japan receives a new shiny trannie!  :-o Now it’s clear to me, 1941 scenario is unbalanced and favors axis super-heavy. I will not play 1941 vanilla scenario unless China gets a very heavy bid, at least 12 (and maybe even UK, I don’t know how India can resist with that swarm of trannies) … or if I play Japan  :-D

So wait… you haven’t played the game yet (or if you have, not very much seeing how it just came out), and are already determining how much of a bid the game needs in order to be balanced?  Geez people, at least play the game at LEAST 5 times and compare your results with other people before determining balance issues… it’s one thing to speculate, it’s another to assume that just because you know the rules, you know for sure if it is balanced or not.  Perhaps, for example, if the allies actually pressure Japan (unlike in Revised), Japan wont have time to play around in China.  We’ll find out though, I mean, the game COULD be totally imbalanced (and unfortunately unnecessary variables make unnecessary hassles- keeping it simple helps avoid oversights to balance, which is a concept not followed in this game), but we wont know for sure until we play.  I’m more interested in hearing how much longer it is than revised, because revised was borderline the longest I’d spend on a game like A&A in one sitting…  :|

@cousin_joe:

@Black_Elk:

Well, I still have high hopes for the game, but I can’t help but be disappointed with this news. I don’t see the benefit of including China in the set up, when all these China-specific rules introduce so much unnecessary complexity into the game. I hate to make suggestions for next time, because I have a feeling its going to be a while, but in the future I really hope the designers take into consideration whether new rules/features are going to be worth the effort, before including them.

So far I can count about 5 or 6 new rules that only pertain to China, and way the Chinese interact with the rest of the “Normal” players. But when you compare that with what we actually get out of China in terms of gameplay, its hard for me to see where the big pay off is coming from. Unlike the National Advantages in Revised or Tech, the China rules are not optional, but built into the framework of the game.

My request for future development would be to PLEASE stop incorporating new rules into the game, and stop looking to new “House Rules” as a solution to fix underlying game balance problems. Instead, focus on fine tunning the core gameplay mechanics that already exist (i.e. the stuff that is the same for everyone, throughout the duration of the game.) Consistency, simplicity, and ease of use, should always trump the other considerations, and only give way when an idea seems really innovative and promises to open up new and interesting dimensions to the gameplay.

That’s all I wanted to say. Other than all these nation specific rules, I’m happy with AA50, and look forward to playing when my copy arrives. :)

Wow, gotta agree completely here with Black_Elk
Looks like a lot of new and out-of-place rules basically just to create a speed bump
I think the “China rules” could have been done much cleaner without as many exceptions to the “Regular rules”
Anyways, we can see how it plays out, but I thnk China is just gonna get ran over  :-)

I definitely agree here, all these special rules are not what A&A is (supposed to be) about.

Rakeman, Japan don’t need time to kill China, they can do it J1  :-o And it’s a easy task. China needs at least 4 inf to hold the front (3 at least for defense of Yunnan). That’s a domino effect: China falls J1 (unless crazy dices), then India falls because Japan can focus in India even if they build a IC (Australia IC cannot defend against that swarm of trannies), then Japan has equal or more income than USA and, or beat americans, or contain then so Germany and Italy can toast soviets at pleasure. And don’t talk about trying ignore Japan with USA, the easier counter for Japan is attacking mainland America, and it’s very easy when you start with so many trannies.

Of course, I could be wrong. If so, I’ll be very happy. But chances are slim

Man, this is crazy. They don’t get 1 more trannie. They get 2  :-o and loaded with 3 inf, 1 art!  :-o

No, I’ll not play 1941 without massive bids for China and UK. Even as Japan, I want an enemy at least near to sparring level. This is not a sparring, this is a dead corpse

Maybe Japan is so strong because it is very easy to KGF, or Kill Italy first. Maby Japan is strong so USA has to attack in the Pacific. Just a thought, because Italy makes Germany much weaker against multiple amphib landings on the coast and in africa.

Where did you get this in Vienna (I am from Vienna too)?

Damage or Spielerei ?

My retailer (Harry) charges 84 € - but his have not arrived -yet :( ;)

Try KGF against this monster and you’ll see japaneses go picnic in Los Angeles  :-P

In Revised, USA could attack in Pacific, and it was a pretty good strat, even if few used. Japan was not a supersaiyajin as in 1941 setup, Japan it was strong, but not too much nor too few. Balanced. No more in 1941. I’ll stick to 1942 scenario.

Germany + Italy = 41 IPCs before NOs and conquered territories. Probably at least 50, maybe even more, 55 or such, after round 1 attacks. Not weaker, stronger. And Japan can reach 60 ipcs easily

OK, Sondrax thanks kindly for the info,

Here is my map of the 1942 Setup;
item:decided China should be its own color, it doesn’t count in USA territoral total.
item:Also, provided blue border to outline Chinese units, operational theatre.
item:Added more historic Reference Rondels for Axis and Allies;
Ok found a sondrax error fixed, S/B CA DD in SZ 12, Ukraine/EUkraine units corrected.
Ok found a bluestroke error fixed, s/b 2 INF-2 Arm Italy.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=db7389213b434449ab1eab3e9fa335ca90971e287b6d25bf
interesting changes,
notice E canada 2 INF w ARM,
S Africa added Trans CT w RTL,
Trans Jordan added RTL,
Egypt gains 3 INF nice,
Australia w Ftr and no Navy,
Sea zone 13 added German DD w CT tranny,
Sea zone 1, added Uk CA w CT nice,
US w 3 BMB, one already in UK, ouch.
US Sea zone 56, nice Pacific Task Force w BB, CA, SS, CT to counter usual Second Pearl cleaning opening on J1.

Sondrax,

I’ve got one question: how much IPCs does a country receive has to make purchases on its 1st turn? Does it include IPCs from the National Objectives or just the value of its territories?

I’m asking because on the Setup Charts that were released the value of the starting IPCs only reflects the value of the territories owned by the country at the start of its turn.

Thanks

@Hobbes:

Sondrax,

I’ve got one question: how much IPCs does a country receive has to make purchases on its 1st turn? Does it include IPCs from the National Objectives or just the value of its territories?

I’m asking because on the Setup Charts that were released the value of the starting IPCs only reflects the value of the territories owned by the country at the start of its turn.

Thanks

Hobbes,
Krieghund or Craig already answered other thread,
you don’t get Bonus IPC until end of your turn.
So, the answer is no, on your first turn, you do not get Bonus IPC to purchase.  Ist chance would be Turn 2.

@Bluestroke:

@Hobbes:

Sondrax,

I’ve got one question: how much IPCs does a country receive has to make purchases on its 1st turn? Does it include IPCs from the National Objectives or just the value of its territories?

I’m asking because on the Setup Charts that were released the value of the starting IPCs only reflects the value of the territories owned by the country at the start of its turn.

Thanks

Hobbes,
Krieghund or Craig already answered other thread,
you don’t get Bonus IPC until end of your turn.
So, the answer is no, on your first turn, you do not get Bonus IPC to purchase.  Ist chance would be Turn 2.

Ah thanks, missed that reply :)

In Revised, USA could attack in Pacific, and it was a pretty good strat, even if few used. Japan was not a supersaiyajin as in 1941 setup, Japan it was strong, but not too much nor too few. Balanced. No more in 1941. I’ll stick to 1942 scenario.

I’m a bit worried about the '41 setup as well, but you must factor in VCs as well. If the '41 scenario is balanced, it would mean Germany and Italy would be able to hold onto Paris and Rome and at the same time take Leningrad and Stalingrad at the same time as Japan takes Calcutta, Sydney and Honolulu. The standard strategy to start with is KGF, but if it turns out to be too slow to take and hold a VC then we will be back to try a balanced strategy such as USA building enough to keep Hawaii off Japanese hands. This focus on the Pacific VCs is an improvement from AAR since I doubt if ever the Japanese land offensive would reach Moscow before the combined Allied offensive has put down the European Axis!

I predict we will see 50-100% deployment of US IPCs off the east coast, since the Germans and Italians are much stronger now IPC-wise.

@Stockus13:

Maybe Japan is so strong because it is very easy to KGF, or Kill Italy first. Maby Japan is strong so USA has to attack in the Pacific. Just a thought, because Italy makes Germany much weaker against multiple amphib landings on the coast and in africa.

That’s what I think.  Yeah, America COULD always have went Pacific, but it never needed to.  Now it may need to, we will see.  I still doubt Japan will be able to ever seriously threaten America though.

@Lynxes:

I’m a bit worried about the '41 setup as well, but you must factor in VCs as well. If the '41 scenario is balanced, it would mean Germany and Italy would be able to hold onto Paris and Rome and at the same time take Leningrad and Stalingrad at the same time as Japan takes Calcutta, Sydney and Honolulu. The standard strategy to start with is KGF, but if it turns out to be too slow to take and hold a VC then we will be back to try a balanced strategy such as USA building enough to keep Hawaii off Japanese hands.

VCs will be another thing against KGF. All Pacific will be free VCs to Japan, and Karelia is not so difficult to get (specially when USA is too busy defending Los Angeles and Ottawa from Japan :-P ). So the only tricky VC for Axis conquer would be Stalingrad, and that it’s on Japan and Italy’s natural path to Moscow.

In KJF, you will defend at very least Hawaii, and if 1942 scenario is balanced, you should defend Sydney and maybe even Calcutta. Forget Calcutta (and maybe Sydney) in 1941

@Funcioneta:

Man, this is crazy. They don’t get 1 more trannie. They get 2  :-o and loaded with 3 inf, 1 art!  :-o

No, I’ll not play 1941 without massive bids for China and UK. Even as Japan, I want an enemy at least near to sparring level. This is not a sparring, this is a dead corpse

Funcioneta I think everyone on this board knows by now that you think the axis can’t be beat in the 41 scenario. You are overdoing it a little bit m8.  :wink:
As far as I know, there is only one extra tranny that we didn’t know off and that one holds 2 inf.

True Japan becomes a monster in a KGF strategy, but how bad is that? You keep on claiming Japan will take Ottawa and Los Angeles, but do you have any clue how hard it is for the Japanese to get a foothold on the US mainland, when the USA player knows what he is doing with the 45 IPC each turn? I mean, that’s a whopping 15 inf each turn!. And if the US player moves it the right way, she can even shuck those inf to Europe and reinforce her own mainland with the newly build infantry. If I were Japan with 60+ income, I wouldn’t bother for the US mainland, my objective would be Russia.

@Perry:

Wow, this game was designed in USA, it was printed in China , and the first market to release the game is Austria…
Talk about an unexpected Marketing move by WOTC  :-D

I saw the game today in a shop (Ultracomix in Nürnberg/Germany) and hold it in my hands. The box is really big. Price 99,90 Euro. It was close, but I decided to order it at yatego for 65,95 Euros  (+4,50 shipping).

I was a bit disoppointed that it contains only 2 italian cruiser items (read it on the box).
I hope there is a posibilty to order additional italian game pieces.

Do you mean additional German cruiser painted in brown? Or additional German DD painted in brown? Sure that do you need them?  :-D

Seriously, I think that Italy is already good in BB and CA department and Italian navy requires an AC (in the real war, it was launched but never completed), and some DD and 1 more TRN.

2 italian cruiser items

you mean it has accounting of every piece included in the game on the back of the box?

600 pieces and only 2 cruisers?  must be a sick joke.

@Imperious:

2 italian cruiser items

you mean it has accounting of every piece included in the game on the back of the box?

600 pieces and only 2 cruisers?  must be a sick joke.

Italy was a minor player and was “owned” by germany

well. I bought 6 copies and will receive 12 cruisers, so i guess ill do fine if i need to build more. But this “Italy as a third axis player” bullcrap is now more like “Italy is a pathetic stooge player with a limpy inventory of plastic bits”

I wonder how many fighters does Germany and Italy have?

A hint for the european enthusiast

Bought 8 copies from US Thought Hammer and paid 473 Euro.