AA50 Rules Errata and Q+A

@Crossover:

Attacker: 2 Subs 4 fighters
Defender: AC, 2 fighters, Cruiser, 2 transports

#1:

Attacker hits with the 2 subs, all air misses - casualties have to be taken on the AC und Crusier
Defender can only fire with the 2 fighters und gets 2 hits

What units can the attacker choose as casualties:

a) only 2 fighters, as the enemy fighters do not attack subs
b) the 2 subs because in round one of the battle all units were participating

A.  It was the fighters that got the hits, and there are no defending destroyers.

@Crossover:

#2

Attacker misses with the subs, but the fighters hit two times, defender chooses the AC and the Cruiser as casualties

now:

#2-I:

The defender only gets 2 hits by the fighters, AC and Cruiser both miss

again: What units can the attacker choose as casualties:

a) only 2 fighters, as the enemy fighters do not attack subs
b) the 2 subs because in round one of the battle all enemy units were participating (here there are anemy ships alive, yet the missed)

Still A, for the same reason.

@Crossover:

#2-II:

The defender gets 2 hits by AC und cruiser, none by the fighters

now the attacker can choose any unit as casualty, those vessels fire against navy and airforce.

Correct.

@Crossover:

#2-III:

Defender gets one hit by the crusier und one bye a fighter

What units can the attacker choose as casualties:

a) only 1 fighter and one sub, the sub for the cruiser hit and the fighter for the enemy fighter hit ?
b) anything, even the 2 subs, because in round one of the battle all enemy units were participating

c) The fighter hit must be assigned to a fighter, and the cruiser hit can be assigned to anything the attacker likes.

@Crossover:

#3

battleround 1:

Attacker gets 2 hits by the subs and one by the air, the defender misses all

battleround 2:

now: the attacker rolls only for the 4 fighters, since the 2 subs cannot attack (only one enemy air unit left): 1 hit
Defender also gets a hit.

The attacker has to take it on a fighter  - in this case we have battle air vs air.

Correct.  When this battle is over, the defending transports will be sunk no matter who wins, since there will still be attacking subs and no defending units that can hit them.

@Crossover:

#4

a curios one - check this out:

Battleround 1:

Attacker: only 1 hit, one by the sub - cruiser chosen as hit
Defender: 3 hits, attacker takes out one sub and 2 fighters

Battleround 2:

Attacker: only 1 hit, again by the sub - AC sunk
Defender: 2 hits by the fighters, attacker takes 2 fighters as casualties

Battleround 3:

1 sub vs 2 figthers and 2 transpots

Rule question: how does the battle end?

a) battle ist over, the sub cannot continue the attack, all enemy units, even the transports survived
b) battle is over, the enemy fighters survived, yet the transports are lost, since the subs killed all the other ships

B.

@Crossover:

If b) is true, what’s the point? Fighters can’t attack sub, so how can they protect that helpless transports from being sunk ?

They can’t protect the transports from subs, that’s why it’s important to have a destroyer when there are enemy subs around.

Thanks al lot krieghund

that’s what i thought. The main message for the US player is, if he wants to kill the japanese fleet with 3 or 4 ACs, a combined attack of only subs and air is a big mistake.
The subs kill the ACs, but all the hits from the enemy fighters have to be taken on your own aircraft - but that’s not what you normally want.

So you either attack only with the subs, as the fighters then aren’t allowed to shoot back in this case - and if the defender has a fleet with ACs and own subs, attack only by air, then the subs are useless. Very interesting.

For this reasons the destroyer unit now plays the role of cheap cannon fodder in combined sea/air fights.

Subs have other tasks in aa50, but that’s probably what the designers wanted.

Seems I recall we had a big long debate over what happens to surviving fighters if the carrier is sunk, could the fighters land in a combat zone and participate in the land battle.  The consensus was no, the fighters land after all combat if a valid landing zone is available.

Example:
2 US subs attack a Jap carrier in SZ35 and the US Invades India from Persia.  The Jap CV is sunk, if the invasion of India fails the planes can land there, if the US takes India the planes are destroyed (ran out of gas looking for a landing site).

Yes, that’s correct.

Got a question for you Krieghund, about transports. If an attacker attacks enemy units in a sz, which also contains enemy transports, can the attacker choose to roll for each of the attacking units against the transports so that if the attacker wants to kill only some of the enemy transports and then retreat, if for some reason the attacker should want to retreat from this battle? Or is this a special rule, meaning defenseless transports are always autokilled without any options?

You said in a previous post: “The concept behind the defenseless transports rule is that if the battle continued, the fighters would roll again and again without response from the transports until the transports were destroyed.  The rule just keeps you from having to roll all those dice.”

I interpret this as the attacker have a choice, say, if there are 5 defenseless transports left, the attacker can roll against the transports and kill .i.e 3 of 5 transports and then retreat…?

@Subotai:

You said in a previous post: “The concept behind the defenseless transports rule is that if the battle continued, the fighters would roll again and again without response from the transports until the transports were destroyed.  The rule just keeps you from having to roll all those dice.”

Yes, that’s the concept.  However, the rules also say that as soon as the defender (or the attacker, if he/she can’t retreat) runs out of combat units the battle is over.  If the battle is over, you can’t retreat, so all of the transports are automatically sunk.  You can’t retreat from defenseless transports, except in the case where all you have left is transports yourself.

A question about paratroopers: Can enemy surface fleets stop paratroopers movement? I think it should be so, because sea zones with surface fleets are hostile, but paras description says “territories”, so I’m not totally sure

Thanks in advance

@Funcioneta:

A question about paratroopers: Can enemy surface fleets stop paratroopers movement? I think it should be so, because sea zones with surface fleets are hostile, but paras description says “territories”, so I’m not totally sure

Thanks in advance

I don’t think so, because nobody “owns” sea zones.

No, sea units have no effect on paratroopers.

Too lazy to look through the sub thread, but this came up in one of my games, it really didn’t matter b/c both sides scored tons of hits but what happens when:

Attacker attacks with 4 Subs + other units mainly air (but NO DDs)

and

Defender has 1 Sub + DD + other units.

Who fires first?

If defending Sub fires first and scores a hit, does the attacker roll for 3 subs only or all 4?

Since there is a defending DD, the attacking subs will not get Surprise Strike, so they will fire at the same time as all of the other attacking units.  Since there are no attacking DDs, the defending sub will get Surprise Strike and fire first.  As a result, all casualties of the defending sub’s Surprise Strike will be removed before they can fire, whether or not they are subs.

Thanks.

I have 7INF 1ART and 2ARM from Karelia with 3INF and 3ARM from Russia attacking Belorussia’s German tank column.  I want to strafe attack 1 round and retreat all surviving forces to Russia?

@Capt.:

I have 7INF 1ART and 2ARM from Karelia with 3INF and 3ARM from Russia attacking Belorussia’s German tank column.  I want to strafe attack 1 round and retreat all surviving forces to Russia?

Perfectly legal AFAIK.

@Capt.:

I have 7INF 1ART and 2ARM from Karelia with 3INF and 3ARM from Russia attacking Belorussia’s German tank column.  I want to strafe attack 1 round and retreat all surviving forces to Russia?

Yes, it’s legal.  Since you have at least one ground unit attacking from Russia, Russia becomes a valid location to retreat too.  Since the rules state you must retreat all attacking forces to the same territory (except air power) then if you wanted to retreat one unit to Russia you would be forced to retreat them all to Russia.

It’s been a strategy players have used for a while to jump their forces across enemy lines.  For instance, if Russia has a large stack in Persia and a large stack in Russia, they can attack Caucasus and retreat all those Persian units with their Russian comrades back to Russia and thus, reunite their forces in one large stack.

Note that retreating (in this case or any) it is only legal if there are still defending units present at the end of a round of combat.  Given this, if you primary intention is to get your units from Karelia to Russia to defend Russia from attack from a territory other than Belorussia, you might consider limiting the number of units you bring from Russia (depending on how many German units are in Belorussia) so as not to risk killing them all in the first round of combat, which would force you to control Belorussia and leave all your attacking units there, leaving Russia vulnerable.
@Cmdr:

@Capt.:

I have 7INF 1ART and 2ARM from Karelia with 3INF and 3ARM from Russia attacking Belorussia’s German tank column.  I want to strafe attack 1 round and retreat all surviving forces to Russia?

Yes, it’s legal.  Since you have at least one ground unit attacking from Russia, Russia becomes a valid location to retreat too.  Since the rules state you must retreat all attacking forces to the same territory (except air power) then if you wanted to retreat one unit to Russia you would be forced to retreat them all to Russia.

It’s been a strategy players have used for a while to jump their forces across enemy lines.  For instance, if Russia has a large stack in Persia and a large stack in Russia, they can attack Caucasus and retreat all those Persian units with their Russian comrades back to Russia and thus, reunite their forces in one large stack.

Does anyone know if Mechanized Infantry works in non-com movement too?  Or is it just in combat?  As stated in the rulebook, it seems to be that it would work in both.  But I want to be certain, of course. I couldn’t seem to find any reference to it in the FAQ.  Thanks.

It works in both.

First, let me get 100% verification.  In the 1942 setup, any territory under Japanese control at the start of the game aside from Kiangsu and Manchuria are considered valid for the purposes of collecting the UK national objective “control any territory originally under Japanese control.” right?

Well, at the start of either game kia and man are both Japanese controlled, though they’re considered chinese if they fall into allied hands.  kwa, bur, sum, sol, brn, phi, ngu, wak, and mid are all clearly controlled by allied powers in the same fashion that kia and man are in 1942 are in every conceivable way yet they’re treated differently for the purposes of this NO.  I guess I just want to know why.

@souL:

First, let me get 100% verification.  In the 1942 setup, any territory under Japanese control at the start of the game aside from Kiangsu and Manchuria are considered valid for the purposes of collecting the UK national objective “control any territory originally under Japanese control.” right?

Well, at the start of either game kia and man are both Japanese controlled, though they’re considered chinese if they fall into allied hands.  kwa, bur, sum, sol, brn, phi, ngu, wak, and mid are all clearly controlled by allied powers in the same fashion that kia and man are in 1942 are in every conceivable way yet they’re treated differently for the purposes of this NO.  I guess I just want to know why.

The FAQ states on page 5:
“Q: When the rules refer to the original controller of a territory, do they mean the controller at the start of the scenario or the controller printed on the map?
A: The controller printed on the map. The original controller of a territory is the same whether you’re playing the 1941 or 1942 scenario. China is considered to be the original controller of Manchuria and Kiangsu, and Japan controls these territories as an enemy power at the beginning of both scenarios.”

So the GB NO does only refer to Jap, FIC, Car, Oki, For and Iwo.