Thanks gnasape\gamerman01!
New warships can be built in a hostile sea zone. Let’s say, for example, that Japan builds a submarine in SZ62, where there is an American Battleship. On America’s turn, the Battleship engages the Sub in combat. The sub hits, and the battleship misses.
Can the battleship retreat? Can it retreat to any adjacent sea zone that was not hostile at the beginning of the turn? (See bottom of page 19) If not, then couldn’t the Battleship leave the sea zone 62 in combat movement and re-enter, thus establishing a sea zone that it came from, giving it a retreat option?
I can’t find this addressed clearly in the rulebook or errata.
Did I ask a question that doesn’t have an answer??
New warships can be built in a hostile sea zone. Let’s say, for example, that Japan builds a submarine in SZ62, where there is an American Battleship. On America’s turn, the Battleship engages the Sub in combat. The sub hits, and the battleship misses.
Can the battleship retreat? Can it retreat to any adjacent sea zone that was not hostile at the beginning of the turn? (See bottom of page 19) If not, then couldn’t the Battleship leave the sea zone 62 in combat movement and re-enter, thus establishing a sea zone that it came from, giving it a retreat option?
I can’t find this addressed clearly in the rulebook or errata.
I would say the battleship can do just that (retreat), but it has to indicate that it has moved out into another SZ prior to attacking (during combat movement). Similiar moves happen with tanks, blitzing thru some other territory to open a retreat option.
The interesting difference is, with the sea example the enemy units are in the same zone to start with. So if the Battleship doesn’t leave and come back, does it forfeit it’s retreat option, since it didn’t come from anywhere else?
The interesting difference is, with the sea example the enemy units are in the same zone to start with. So if the Battleship doesn’t leave and come back, does it forfeit it’s retreat option, since it didn’t come from anywhere else?
Personally, I would think so. of course, I am not an official rules person. But logically, how can you retreat to somewhere from whence you did not come?
I agree with you. Hopefully Krieg or someone will weigh in on this. Turned out it didn’t matter in my game - I didn’t engage the sub.
OK, my turn for question :-)
1942 scenario
Hawaii, J1. They bring sub, DD, ftr, bmr on USA’s dd, a/c, ftr
Japan hits two: dd, a/c lost
USA rolls 1 hit, Japan loses DD.
round 2:
Japanese sub, ftr, bmr or USA ftr
Japan doesn’t wish to trade a ftr for a ftr and decides to w/d. What can the japanese sub do?
Can it w/d away one SZ from where it came? Can the japanese sub w/d to sz 51 or sz46 as part of the japanese w/d from the battle or can the sub only submerge?
I think I can answer this one.
Since Japan does not want to lose a fighter and decides to retreat, the submarine must retreat to either SZ51 or SZ46.
The sub cannot submerge, because submerging is done in place of rolling an attack die. For the sub to submerge, there would have to be another round of combat.
Page 30: Submarines - Submersible: Anytime a submarine would otherwise roll the die to attack or defend, it can submerge instead. Whenever a round of combat starts and a submarine is in combat with only aircraft, it can submerge (before aircraft fire).
The retreat would be before “a round of combat starts”
And now I have another question!
Now that I’m starting to play with interceptors and escorts….
Official errata says “Fighters participating as either an escort or a defender cannot participate in other battles during that turn.”
It is unclear what exactly “turn” means.
Let’s say Russia, UK, and USA are all strat bombing Germany every round (turn?). Germany has a fighter in Germany. Does the fighter only get to defend against one SBR per Germany turn, or per enemy turn? That is, can the same German fighter attempt to intercept up to 3 times between German turns? Or only once?
gamerman01,
http://harrisgamedesign.com/pdf/A&A_Anniversary_FAQ.pdf
I think I can answer that. This is the revised FAQ.
Germany can use any ftr in Ger to intercept every time it’s SBR’ed. It doesn’t only cover German ftrs but any ftrs based in the territory being SBR’ed so it can be Italian or even Japanese ftr.
Krieghund covered this in another thread. I’ll look for it and revise this response.
This response is for AAE but should also apply,
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=15396.msg495075#msg495075
Thanks for the reply. That is the same FAQ I was referring to.
Was just getting on to post that I thought fighters could defend each time, because they can do the same vs. conventional attacks, and you confirmed it. Good to know Krieg confirmed it.
New warships can be built in a hostile sea zone. Let’s say, for example, that Japan builds a submarine in SZ62, where there is an American Battleship. On America’s turn, the Battleship engages the Sub in combat. The sub hits, and the battleship misses.
Can the battleship retreat? Can it retreat to any adjacent sea zone that was not hostile at the beginning of the turn? (See bottom of page 19) If not, then couldn’t the Battleship leave the sea zone 62 in combat movement and re-enter, thus establishing a sea zone that it came from, giving it a retreat option?
I can’t find this addressed clearly in the rulebook or errata.I would say the battleship can do just that (retreat), but it has to indicate that it has moved out into another SZ prior to attacking (during combat movement). Similiar moves happen with tanks, blitzing thru some other territory to open a retreat option.
Yup.
I think I can answer this one.
Since Japan does not want to lose a fighter and decides to retreat, the submarine must retreat to either SZ51 or SZ46.
The sub cannot submerge, because submerging is done in place of rolling an attack die. For the sub to submerge, there would have to be another round of combat.
Page 30: Submarines - Submersible: Anytime a submarine would otherwise roll the die to attack or defend, it can submerge instead. Whenever a round of combat starts and a submarine is in combat with only aircraft, it can submerge (before aircraft fire).The retreat would be before “a round of combat starts”
Correct.
I was using a new odds calculator this afternoon, and for heavy bombers, it appears to incorporate the “best of the two dice” rule, so each bomber can only score one hit, and there is a 1/9 chance that a heavy bomber will miss.
I went back to the rulebook to make sure, and on page 12 for technology it says:
6. Heavy Bombers. Your bombers are now heavy bombers. You roll two dice for each bomber when you attack or make a SBR. On defense, your bombers still roll only a single die.
On page 19 under “attacking units fire” it says “Roll one die for each attacking unit with an attack value. … An attacking unit scores a hit if you roll its attack value or less.”
:-o
Now I’m wondering if we’ve all been playing wrong on PBF! I checked the FAQ and errata and didn’t find this addressed. I’ve seen people talk about this rule online, saying they use the best of 2 dice method (Commander Jen) or the 100% always hit method for conventional attacks.
However, it appears to me (at this time, anyway) that once again the rulebook is ambiguous! Can one heavy bomber get two hits? It is unambiguous in the rulebook (page 17) that the total of two dice is added together for each heavy on SBR. But the rulebook does not make it clear whether each heavy can get two hits, or if it just rolls two dice and if one of those is 4 or less it scores a hit.
Given the context, what is the most reasonable interpretation of “roll two dice for each bomber”?
Given the context, what is the most reasonable interpretation of “roll two dice for each bomber”?
Krieg, thanks for the timely reply!!
Given the context, it sounds like the rulebook itself is implying that each unit can only hit once, including heavy bombers.
I was asking because I wasn’t sure if there was something in the rulebook I was not considering, or if there was an interpretation of these rules from someone who knows how they were intended.
I just attacked a Japanese fleet with 3 Heavies and all 6 dice were 4 or less, so right now I wish they could each hit twice. However, if the actual rule is supposed to be each HB each hits once, that …… well… that would be interesting.
In my opinion, long range aircraft would become the most powerful and most devastating surprise chart 2 tech to get… Which is fine… Wow, this would really change the game. Players with heavy bombers would choose to use them to SBR a lot more often. Unless of course interceptors are in play… Anyway, I’m just thinking “out loud”. Please clarify for me again - is there a rule I’m missing?
In Classic and Revised, the OOB rules were for Heavy bombers to hit two units, right? Now I’m going to have to go downstairs and read those Classic rules again.
OK, in my 2nd edition rules, on page 10 it says for Heavy Bombers -
“In a regular combat situation with military units as targets, roll 3 dice for each attacking heavy bomber - thus each bomber could score up to three hits”
This phrase is “extremely absent” from the AA50 rulebook. However, nowhere in the AA50 rulebook have I found that clearly states that this rule has changed. In other words, there’s nothing to say heavies DON’T hit 2 conventional units apiece. I would think if this rule was intentionally changed, it would be addressed at least in the FAQ. That’s why I find it necessary to ask here - I can’t find a definitive answer in any rulebook or FAQ or errata. Help!
If you look at AA guns, they (one unit) can inflict more than one hit, so I would say that a Heavy Bomber rolling 2 dice can indeed inflict two hits if both dice rolls are less than “4”.
The problem with rules exceptions (like Tech) that modify the ‘base’ rules is that they are usually not as detailed as the base rules, and can lead to confusion.
I would think that applying the ‘common sense’ theory, that in the abscence of explicit rules about ‘taking the best of the two dice’ for Heavy Bombers tech, that those two dice can indeed inflict two hits.
Thanks, axis. Omega told me he’s observed that they play that way in tournament play (heavy bombers can score 2 hits)
Sure is funny they had it crystal clear in my 2nd edition rulebook from 17 years ago, and now the waters have been muddied :lol:
