AA50 Rules Errata and Q+A

i think that krieghund is the official rules question, answerer, i will forward this question to krieghund, or anyone that has the official answer

there is a game going on at forum, and italy attack’s the u.k. with 3 sub’s, 1 sub hit’s, the u.k. is destroyed,

have the two fightrer’s that are defending an oppurtunity to fire back at and hit the sub’s

there are 3 attacking sub’s 1 defending aircraft carrier and 2 defending fighter’s

some of the player’s agree that the fighter’s can not hit the sub’s

i have been reading the rulebook, and can not find a reference that states that defending aircraft can not hit sub’s

all the AA game’s that i have played, fighter’s could always attack sub’s

Unfortunately, it’s a little muddled in the rulebook, but it’s clear in the FAQ:

Q. On page 29 it says that your aircraft may hit enemy submarines if you have a destroyer in the sea zone, but it doesn’t say anywhere in the rules that aircraft can’t hit submarines without a destroyer present. Do you always need a destroyer in a battle in order for your air units to hit enemy subs?
A. Yes. Air units can only hit subs if there is a friendly destroyer on the battle board, otherwise hits made by air units must be applied to units other than submarines. If you’re the attacker, destroyers in the same sea zone belonging to your ally don’t count, since they’re not involved in the battle.

Since there are no defending destroyers, the defending fighters can’t hit the attacking subs.  Since neither side can hit the other, the battle is over.

yeah, that make’s sense, it should have been stated in the rulebook that aircraft can not hit enemy sub’s without a destroyer involved with the attacking / defending force, i suppose that is what errata, and official faq are for

At the end of a country’s turn can they decide NOT to place units on the board? Or must they place purchased units down at the end of their turn?

Oh and before I forget, if they can choose not to place units on the map do the units stay in the purchased units area to be placed onto the board later in the game whenever the player decides?

You must mobilize all of your units that you can.  You can only hold back units if you have insufficient production capacity to mobilize them all.  In that case, which units you mobilize and which you hold in reserve is up to you.

Units held in reserve must be mobilized as soon as production capacity becomes available in future turns.  If your capital is captured while you have units still in reserve, you lose those units.

@Krieghund:

Units held in reserve must be mobilized as soon as production capacity becomes available in future turns.

If i hold units in reserve turn 1, and turn 2 i build a number of units, which, when added to the number of my reserve units, exceed my production capacity, must i place old reserve units before placing newly purchased units?  the rules seem to imply this is not necessary:

@Rulebook:

If you do not place some of your units the turn you purchase them, they are not lost. You can place them on one of your future turns during your Mobilize New Units phase.

Krieghund, I think I sunk you.

On the matter of attacking subs and defending ships/fighters.

Pg. 29 - Additionally, your aircraft may attack enemy submarines.

This says nothing about defense.

Pg. 30 - This special attack only happens once at the
start of the attacking units fire step. Then, the combat sequence continues normally.

This says to me, the sub rules are somewhat comparable to the previous versions.  A sub gets a special attack.  A sub may submerge if opting not to attack or defend.  Subs may be ATTACKED when there is a Destroyer to find them.  Ships/Fighters may DEFEND against a sub attack as usual.  A sub is not an invincible unit unless there is a destroyer!

If this is not understood to be the accurate assesment of the rules, please consider, the alternative is making a pretty good unit (as intended), the sub, into a dominating unit (not intended) and the whole game kinda silly.

To think otherwise, is like saying, “Oh my gosh, they built one sub, my entire fleet is dead unless I buy a destroyer?” Or “What was that?  A torpedo!  Good thing it missed.  Uh-oh, here comes another one.  What do we do?”

@Capt.:

Krieghund, I think I sunk you.

On the matter of attacking subs and defending ships/fighters.

Pg. 29 - Additionally, your aircraft may attack enemy submarines.

This says nothing about defense.

in the FAQ this was reworded to “Additionally, your aircraft may hit enemy submarines if you have a destroyer on the battle board.”

There’s a whole section on submarines in the FAQ.

On the subject of sinking Krieghund:  since I think he has been tasked with writing the FAQ interpreting the rules, the rules pretty much are whatever he says they are. :)

@Capt.:

the alternative is making a pretty good unit (as intended), the sub, into a dominating unit (not intended) and the whole game kinda silly.[…] To think otherwise, is like saying, “Oh my gosh, they built one sub, my entire fleet is dead unless I buy a destroyer?”

By your own words you offer the answer to prevent subs from becoming dominating units. Just buy a destroyer :)

“What was that?  A torpedo!  Good thing it missed.  Uh-oh, here comes another one.  What do we do?”

I think the thing missing there is that while the Surprise Strike ability of the sub does offer an advantage, in order for subs to use it they can’t submerge and are vulnerable to being hit back.

Subs are not dominating units by themselves but they can be an harassment and a major pain. I particularly like their rules on AA50 because I think that planes are a dominating unit on Revised against fleets.

Thanks, Tim.

There’s a lot of unfortunate wording in the sub rules.  The word “attack” being used interchangeably with the word “hit” is a prime example.  As Tim pointed out, the FAQ makes an effort to correct this.

Captain, I disagree with your assertion that the inability of defending fighters to hit attacking subs without a defending destroyer makes subs too powerful.  It does make subs very powerful, but this power can be largely negated with the purchase of a single destroyer.  IMHO, this nicely abstracts the cost of submarine economic attacks by forcing the power threatened by subs to purchase a destroyer or two just to protect against enemy subs.  Also, fleets without destroyers aren’t completely helpless against subs.  Carriers are really vulnerable (as they should be), but battleships and cruisers can provide a fairly good sub shield for fleets, also.

@TimTheEnchanter:

On the subject of sinking Krieghund:  since I think he has been tasked with writing the FAQ interpreting the rules, the rules pretty much are whatever he says they are. :)

Actually, the rules are whatever Larry and AH say they are. :wink:

I do write the FAQ, but Larry and the gang approve every entry.  Incidentally, I’ll take this opportunity to thank everyone here for asking all of these tough questions.  You’ll see a few of them crop up in the next version of the FAQ.

@Stoney229:

@Krieghund:

Units held in reserve must be mobilized as soon as production capacity becomes available in future turns.

If i hold units in reserve turn 1, and turn 2 i build a number of units, which, when added to the number of my reserve units, exceed my production capacity, must i place old reserve units before placing newly purchased units?  the rules seem to imply this is not necessary:

@Rulebook:

If you do not place some of your units the turn you purchase them, they are not lost. You can place them on one of your future turns during your Mobilize New Units phase.

You can mobilize them in any order that you wish.

@Krieghund:

You must mobilize all of your units that you can.  You can only hold back units if you have insufficient production capacity to mobilize them all.

So if I understand this correctly, the only time this would come into play is when for example; a German player with only the initial german IC on the game board purchases 12 units but can only place 10 units in germany at a time therefore they hold the additional units until the next turn and so on? Correct?

That would be one example.  Another is that the German player has some damage tokens on his/her IC and miscalculates the number that need to be repaired in order to mobilize the number of units he/she plans on purchasing.

This one isn’t really AA50 specific, but humor me anyway.  Let’s say I have an AA gun already on a transport at the start of my turn.  During combat moves, that same transport picks up an inf and the inf captures Territory X.  Can the AA move off the transport into Territory X during NCM because it hasn’t moved yet? Or is it locked into the boat because the trn moved during combat and can’t unload again during NCM?  What if it wanted to unload into friendly Territory Y which is also adjacent to the same sea zone?

I’ll hang up and listen to your answer. ;)

@TimTheEnchanter:

This one isn’t really AA50 specific, but humor me anyway.  Let’s say I have an AA gun already on a transport at the start of my turn.  During combat moves, that same transport picks up an inf and the inf captures Territory X.  Can the AA move off the transport into Territory X during NCM because it hasn’t moved yet? Or is it locked into the boat because the trn moved during combat and can’t unload again during NCM?

Classic: You can’t put an AA gun and infantry on a transport together.
Europe, Pacific & Revised: Yes.
LHTR & AA50: No.

@TimTheEnchanter:

What if it wanted to unload into friendly Territory Y which is also adjacent to the same sea zone?

Only Classic allows unloading into multiple territories, but that’s a moot point in this example.

@Krieghund:

@TimTheEnchanter:

What if it wanted to unload into friendly Territory Y which is also adjacent to the same sea zone?

Only Classic allows unloading into multiple territories, but that’s a moot point in this example.

just a small addition. You could offload to two territories in Revised with one of japans national advantages as the only way. Tokyo-express I believe it was called.

You’re thinking of Lightning Assaults.  That doesn’t apply to this case, either, since it applies only to combat movement.  :-)

I am under the impression that with the factory technology you can produce 2 units at a factory even if it has maximum damage. However I just looked through the Rule book and FAQs and do not see where this indicated.

@a44bigdog:

I am under the impression that with the factory technology you can produce 2 units at a factory even if it has maximum damage. However I just looked through the Rule book and FAQs and do not see where this indicated.

I have never heard this.  The rules say the factory tech allows for 2 additional units in production capacity, and gives the example of Germany being able to produce 12 with the tech instead of 10.  Max damage is still twice the territory value, so Germany could potential have 20 damage markers on it… and as long as it has 12 or more it can’t produce units.  On the other hand, a territory with an IPC value of 1 would be able to produce 3 with the factory tech, and max damge on the terit would be 2, still allowing for 1 units of production.  in no case can any factory produce 2 or more units while holding it’s maximum number of damage counters, since you cannot build factories on territories with an income value of less than 1.