Well, it’s guesswork, but I edited now according to your clues… :-)
Well, you have done a great job. Guessing or not.
Again though, Italy was mixed in with those others, not meant to be a distinct bonus.
Italy only has 2 bonuses, one involving sea units as you stated. I did not mean to Imply Italy gets a third bonus.
Now since AA50 comes with no convoy zones, I think this national objective bonuses should involve sea zones. Maybe one land territory, and some adjacent sea zones, to represent the income from ship lanes and international trade, and benefits of using ships and not trucks or trains. But as it is now, you get bonus for holding land territories only, and that is doo bad. Just my opinion.
I remember Griffy talking about “Wet territory”, and this was important sea zones that would benefit the controller. So if you had a naval unit in this spesific sea zones, you got a bonus IPC income.
My suggestions on how it should be:
Italy should get bonus for Italy territory and the adjacent sea zones in Med.
UK get bonus for Canada, sea zones 1,2 and 3 plus UK
US get bonus for Panama and sea zone 20 and the one on other side, dont remember nr, 60 something.
USSR get bonus for Karelia and sea zone 4
Japan get bonus for Borneo and adjacent sea zones, East Indies and adjacent sea zones, and so on…
you get the idea
Now since AA50 comes with no convoy zones, I think this national objective bonuses should involve sea zones. Maybe one land territory, and some adjacent sea zones, to represent the income from ship lanes and international trade, and benefits of using ships and not trucks or trains. But as it is now, you get bonus for holding land territories only, and that is doo bad. Just my opinion.
I remember Griffy talking about “Wet territory”, and this was important sea zones that would benefit the controller. So if you had a naval unit in this spesific sea zones, you got a bonus IPC income.
My suggestions on how it should be:
Italy should get bonus for Italy territory and the adjacent sea zones in Med.
UK get bonus for Canada, sea zones 1,2 and 3 plus UK
US get bonus for Panama and sea zone 20 and the one on other side, dont remember nr, 60 something.
USSR get bonus for Karelia and sea zone 4
Japan get bonus for Borneo and adjacent sea zones, East Indies and adjacent sea zones, and so on…you get the idea
The map is too small to have convoy zones. That sais, Italy does have sea zone control as part of a bonus. At least that’s something…
And WOTC contine spamming us with Magic expansions each 3 months :-P
Wizards has a very high profit margin on the Magic expansions. Considerably higher than the board games.
@Greand:
WOTC also made D&D 4th edition, and they destroyed my favorit RPG game… Litteraly destroyed it. They did so many things which was incredible stupid…
If I play AD&D at all, I still use 2nd Edition. Since I live close to Lake Geneva, I knew a lot of the TSR people before it was purchased by Wizards. I use to help run GenCon when it was UofW-Parkside and Milwaukee.
The map is too small to have convoy zones. That sais, Italy does have sea zone control as part of a bonus. At least that’s something…
I am working on adding Italy to A&A Europe, and have Italy receiving IPC for controlling the sea zones surrounding it as well as the Aegean. Italy was and is heavily dependent on coastal sea commerce and fishing.
Wizards has a very high profit margin on the Magic expansions. Considerably higher than the board games.
Totally true. The thing I don’t understand is how is there still people who bites and buy more Magic stuff (saving pro gamers who earns money playing Magic, of course)
I see the UK is pretty much all guesses at this point…
So from my notes, I reveal an objective that should spurn alot of discussion, depending on how it is interpreted…
UK gets 5 IPC if allies control any territory originally under Japan’s control.
Discuss…
/squirecam
Edit, again! This UK objective is quite interesting, but will probably only be applicable in the late game. But of course it again reinforces that Japan must keep their starting areas, improving the historical slant of the game.
This dont feel right. So if you take Borneo, first you get 4 IPC income for the island, and then a 5 IPC bonus income, just for fun. But if you take Madagaskar, you only get the 1 IPC income from the island, and no bonus.
It should be this way :
The player who controll all sea zones in Mediterrean get 5 IPC bonus.
This bonus is to reflect the benefit of being able to use the ship-lanes in Med.
Italy had shipping and trading in Med. UK also had shipping and trading in Med. Why will only Italy get bonus from Med ? This new bonus rules seem so lame
Since Squirecam has been so kind as to provide this new information, I will confirm it (as well as the US one he provided earlier) and elaborate.
This UK 5 IPC bonus applies if any Allied power controls a territory that was originally under Japanese control. As for interpretation, any time the original control of a territory is referred to in the rules, it means the control at the beginning of the 1941 scenario, regardless of which scenario you’re playing. The map is printed with the '41 scenario starting ownership, and some of them are overlaid in the '42 setup with NCMs. This avoids weird situations like Germany being the original owner of West Russia and Japan being the original owner of the Philippines in Revised.
I will also provide a “bonus” update:
UK
(Hong-Kong+Burma+India+Netherlands East Indies+Borneo+New Guinea+Solomon Islands+Australia+New Zealand=5 IPCs)
This one is totally incorrect, and should be deleted.
Since Squirecam has been so kind as to provide this new information, I will confirm it (as well as the US one he provided earlier) and elaborate.
This UK 5 IPC bonus applies if any Allied power controls a territory that was originally under Japanese control. As for interpretation, any time the original control of a territory is referred to in the rules, it means the control at the beginning of the 1941 scenario, regardless of which scenario you’re playing. The map is printed with the '41 scenario starting ownership, and some of them are overlaid in the '42 setup with NCMs. This avoids weird situations like Germany being the original owner of West Russia and Japan being the original owner of the Philippines in Revised.
I will also provide a “bonus” update:
UK
(Hong-Kong+Burma+India+Netherlands East Indies+Borneo+New Guinea+Solomon Islands+Australia+New Zealand=5 IPCs)
This one is totally incorrect, and should be deleted.
Thank you…
While I knew the bonus, I didnt say anything before because I did not know the correct interpretation of the rule. Obviously, you “could” have interpreted it as 1942 control vs 1941. But I think the correct interpretation is to use the “1941” control, regardless of the scenario.
Secondly, assuming China takes Manchuria, would UK get this bonus? China is an “ally” for this, correct? (I assume it is)
This dont feel right. So if you take Borneo, first you get 4 IPC income for the island, and then a 5 IPC bonus income, just for fun. But if you take Madagaskar, you only get the 1 IPC income from the island, and no bonus.
It should be this way :
The player who controll all sea zones in Mediterrean get 5 IPC bonus.
This bonus is to reflect the benefit of being able to use the ship-lanes in Med.
Italy had shipping and trading in Med. UK also had shipping and trading in Med. Why will only Italy get bonus from Med ? This new bonus rules seem so lame
Italy does not get a bonus just for the med. It needs to keep allied shipping out of the med + have territories. Its a logical bonus.
But the allies want to “prevent” Italy from getting the bonus, so it is important to them too. First stop the bonus, second take back africa and third take Italy. It’s very historical.
Finally, UK’s objectives are not all confirmed yet. Dont you think UK might just have a bonus for holding some med territories??
Secondly, assuming China takes Manchuria, would UK get this bonus? China is an “ally” for this, correct? (I assume it is)
China is an Allied power, but the territories of Manchuria and Kiangsu are special cases. Though they start the '41 scenario in Japanese hands, they are considered to be Chinese territories, and are so marked on the map. As such, they would not count toward this UK National Objective.
Secondly, assuming China takes Manchuria, would UK get this bonus? China is an “ally” for this, correct? (I assume it is)
China is an Allied power, but the territories of Manchuria and Kiangsu are special cases. Though they start the '41 scenario in Japanese hands, they are considered to be Chinese territories, and are so marked on the map. As such, they would not count toward this UK National Objective.
Ok, so not only must the territory start out controlled by the Japanese, it must be a non-chinese territory.
Under that scenario, its a pretty limited objective. The only non-island territory that qualifies is FIC.
Anyway this bonus rule sure seem to complicate things a bit, if you had issues with keeping track of IPC income and VC ownership, this bonus sure give more brain-work. It ain’t even marked on the map, so you need to memorize it too.
Finally, UK’s objectives are not all confirmed yet. Dont you think UK might just have a bonus for holding some med territories??
Squirecam has a point here that we need more info on the UK objectives. While I got some good info on the other objectives from GENCON players on the web, the UK wasn’t something people remembered that well. Is there some kind of Atlantic national objective for UK, for example? This would also influence discussions if Germany should go for a naval strategy or not, so would be nice to know.
Ps. Edited original post. Ds.
Anyway this bonus rule sure seem to complicate things a bit, if you had issues with keeping track of IPC income and VC ownership, this bonus sure give more brain-work. It ain’t even marked on the map, so you need to memorize it too.
Agree. On a 1 v 1 this will complicate the game a lot. You have to remember all allies or all axis bonuses. To forget about one is very easy. Depending on how many there realy are ofcourse.
But a 3 v 3 player game the bonuses will work nice cuz then you only have to think about your own bonuses. I realy enjoy the russian bonus you get if there are noe allies troops in russia :)
Ok, so not only must the territory start out controlled by the Japanese, it must be a non-chinese territory.
Under that scenario, its a pretty limited objective. The only non-island territory that qualifies is FIC.
Sounds like this will promote more fighting in the central Pacific. 8-)
Anyway this bonus rule sure seem to complicate things a bit, if you had issues with keeping track of IPC income and VC ownership, this bonus sure give more brain-work. It ain’t even marked on the map, so you need to memorize it too.
They are also printed on the back of the set-up charts.
Is there some kind of Atlantic national objective for UK, for example? This would also influence discussions if Germany should go for a naval strategy or not, so would be nice to know.
There are no UK objectives that deal with sea zones.
@Greand:
Anyway this bonus rule sure seem to complicate things a bit, if you had issues with keeping track of IPC income and VC ownership, this bonus sure give more brain-work. It ain’t even marked on the map, so you need to memorize it too.
Agree. On a 1 v 1 this will complicate the game a lot. You have to remember all allies or all axis bonuses. To forget about one is very easy. Depending on how many there realy are ofcourse.
But a 3 v 3 player game the bonuses will work nice cuz then you only have to think about your own bonuses. I realy enjoy the russian bonus you get if there are noe allies troops in russia :)
After a few games you will know them by heart.
Sounds like this will promote more fighting in the central Pacific. 8-)
Yes, I know. :-D
Germany
Baltic States+Belorussia+East Ukraine+Ukraine= 5 IPCs
This one is actually 5 IPCs for controlling at least 3 of the following territories: Baltic States, East Poland, Ukraine, Eastern Ukraine and/or Belorussia.
