German AA50 -41 strategy

@Argothair said in Reliable 1941 Axis Strategy:

@cheezhead1252 You’re welcome!

No, I think it is counterproductive to worry about attacking Egypt on G1 – especially with NOs off, it is just not that important, and you need every plane in the German air force to win 2 naval battles + 3 land battles on turn 1 at reasonable odds.

If you want to go heavy in the Med, you can get excellent odds on taking Egypt turn 2 by instead using the German med transport to shuffle another inf + tank to Libya on G1, where it will be protected by the Italian navy for a turn. Italy will do the same, shuffling another 2 units to Libya on I1. If you pre-position another 2 units in Italy / the Balkans on G1, then on G2 you can ferry them to Egypt with your transport, allowing you to attack with ~8 land units, plus the German bomber, which can now be spared from anti-British-navy duties, plus also a German fighter that should have landed in Morocco. This is far more than anything the Allies can bring to the region, and if you somehow roll poorly, the Italians are there to follow up with an equally hard punch (~7 units, 1 plane, and 2 naval bombards).

Italy can build any land units it wants for the eastern front; it’s just a style preference. Tanks allow you to threaten a ‘can opener’ for Germany in a larger number of territories, but they tend to be a one-and-done attack, since Italy doesn’t have enough cash to build many tanks; sooner or later Russia will call your bluff and force you to either attack with the Italian tanks into a stack of 2-3 Russian infantry, or else retreat. If you send in the tanks and Germany can’t take Moscow that turn or stack up with the survivors, then you’ll lose the surviving tanks next turn to a Russian counterattack, and you won’t be able to replace them anytime soon. But, if you build all infantry, then it takes longer to become relevant, and Russia can clearly see where it’s headed. There are pros and cons. I usually build a mix.

Good luck against your old man!

I took the advice from your first post and applied to a game of triple A hard AI before you posted this response. I ended up coming to the same conclusions as above, so it is good to confirm I’m on the right track haha.

I agree that the juice in Egypt isn’t really worth the squeeze. I strafed them in G1 to kill some units. And they end up running to Persia once you pressure India anyways. So the French tank and an Inf got shipped to the Eastern front via Med transport and I did the same with Italian units too.

Also, the tip for transports to pressure India was money, getting it a round earlier than I had been was huge. Was able to rush in some planes to help defend Germany on J2 or maybe it was J3.

Was the first time I beat the AI without No’s, it felt great crushing Russia, not going to lie hehe. It’s a slog on the eastern front and you have to be extremely careful and concentrate your forces at the right spot at the right time or you’re fooked.

Thanks again for the great advice and I look forward to kicking some allied booty, cheers!

For purely defensive purposes, buying infantry cannot be beat. When you can swap in an offensive piece (artillery or tank) without decreasing the number of units you’re putting on the board, this is well-advised. The relative cost of units and their defending capability seems to be balanced such that quantity is quality.

For example, Russia starts the '41 version with 30 IPC. For that money you can buy 10 inf OR 8 inf and a tank, etc, etc… OR 3 fighters. If you benchmark every 30IPC purchasing combination against an attacking force of 4inf and 5 tanks (nearly a 50/50 battle with about a 2% chance of mutually assured destruction if you purchased 10 inf), the results are telling:

10 inf - 49% chance of winning [2 * 10 = 20 hit points or 20/6 = 3.3 average hits]
8 inf, 1 tank - 38% chance of winning [2 * 8 + 1 *3 = 19 hit points or 19/6 = 3.2 average hits]
5 inf, 1 tank, 1 fighter - 16% chance of winning [5 * 2 + 1 * 3 + 1 * 4 = 17 or 17/6 = 2.8 average hits]
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3 fighters - 0.02% chance of winning [3 * 4 = 12 points or 12/6 = 2 average hits]

No combination of possible purchases perform better than 10 inf in this scenario.

However, when playing against a German Goering that likes to over-extend poorly defended fighters or bombers to gain a couple of IPCs, it’s nice to have the offensive capability to wipe them off the board. I have found this is best accomplished by pushing infantry forward (protecting your offensive pieces from overwhelming counter-attack) and keeping a mix of infantry, artillery and tanks within striking distance of the front line.

For offensive purposes, the best mix of units for the same 30 IPCs, baselined to a 50/50 battle of your 10 infantry against a defending 6inf + 1 artillery (approximately 1% chance of a draw):

10 inf - 50% [10 * 1 = 10 points or 10/6 = 1.7 average hits]
8 inf, 1 tank - 60% [8 * 1 + 1 * 3 = 11 points or 11/6 = 1.8 average hits]
6 inf, 3 art - 81% [3 * 1 + (3 + 3) * 2 = 15 points or 15/6 = 2.5 average hits]
5 inf, 1 tank, 1 ftr - 42% [5 * 1 + 1 * 3 + 1 * 3 = 11 points or 11/6 = 1.8 average hits]
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3 ftr - 0% [3 * 3 = 9 points or 9/6 = 1.5 average hits]

For purely offensive considerations, the optimum combination of units in this scenario is 6 inf and 3 art at 81% chance of victory with 4 inf, 2 art and 2 tanks in close second at 80%. No combination of purchases which include a fighter score better than 53% (4 inf, 2 art and 1 fighter happens to be the specific combination in this case). Again, there appears to be a quality in quantity that supersedes just quality. It may go without stating, but if attacking a territory with an AA gun, the numbers will be even worse for the fighter purchases.

For the two scenarios above, the most balanced purchase (averaging the %won for each purchase in its offensive capacity and defensive capacity) is 7 inf, 1 art and 1 tank. This particular purchase is the second best defensive purchase (next to 10 inf) and only 4% less potent than the best offensive purchase (6 inf and 3 art).

I’m not against fighters or bombers, they certainly have their place I just haven’t found justification for purchasing them when playing as Russia (or Germany for that matter) - especially in the early rounds.

Similar conclusion are drawn with respect to naval units - more cost-effective units (subs and especially destroyers) are typically better than fewer high-powered units (battleships and especially cruisers).

Excepting special circumstances (such as no time to get infantry to a developing hot-spot on the map or needing to sandbag funds for a massive naval build against enemies squatting in your sea-zone) a good rule of thumb seems to be to maximize the number of attack/defend points your are bringing to the board, first, and spread over as many units as possible, second.

I find best way to protect Kar is to have 3-4 trannies in SZ 2 at the end of UK1, then if needed drop the entire thing onto Kar.

I’d rather deny G 7 IPC and Russia 5 than let Kar get traded.  Its too much of a pita for Russia to trade it and keep Persia held and Cauc.  I really like it when I get to kill a stack of G armor in the process :)  Its also very tough for G to hit SZ 4 with planes so your DD+AC from turn 1 should be enough defense for your boats as figs must be in Baltic States or within range of your trannies to hit your boats.

Persia is the true center.  When it falls, allies are usually screwed.  If held, Berlin typically falls.

@wodan46:

G1: Build 10 Infantry
G2: Build 10 Tanks
G3: Build 10 Tanks
G4: Whistle
G5: Take Moscow with G1+G2+G3 builds.

haha, whistle
good one
once tried your plan, but instead of whistling, i drunk some water
if i did some whistling instead of drinkning, i would of taken moscow
ah well

Yep, and it’s even more funny do it to the USA in a Polar Express campaign. Priceless

Also, western axis could make a try with SBRs on London if UK makes the error of not buying SAF IC. 16 damage on a country that is colecting about 25 or less? Deadly

I have no problem sending up to 5 infantry, 1 armor to China to stop Japan. (20 IPC) it only helps, however, if China can eek out at least one infantry a round themselves!

I do still find humorous the idea of sending 14 Russian Armor into China!  That would be a lark of epic proportions and I may actually do it one game just to see my opponent die of apoplectic shock at seeing the doors to Moscow open up to Germany by end round 3!

You could also set up a trap for allied navies, by sinking the dd and leaving your subs posted there.
If, by any chance, the german player was to be attacked by an english navy that would not dispose of a destroyer, they could trap them by submerging prior to the battle and coming back to attack the fleet on their turn, using planes togheter with the subs.

I don’t exactly remember the initial setup of the game and if uk disposes of a lot of destroyers, but in my opinion, this tactic could work at least once against inexperienced players.